RE: Advice for a friend/ Buying Programs
Dealers of the same brand vehicle pay the same price per unit whether they buy one or a hundred and one. This is contrary to most any other retail merchant in the world.
The supplier, friends and family programs, etc.... do not guarantee the lowest retail price to the consumer. It will be a competitive price but the dealer can in fact sell the unit cheaper if he so desires and the employee price will always be less if the consumer qualifies for it.
If your friend is making his purchase decision between the three major truck brands based solely on bottom line dollars, he is making a very poor decision. All the brands have different strengths and features that may better serve a particular user of the product.
RE: Customer Service at Camping World, Ft Meyers, Fl
There are 75 Camping World Super Center stores in the U.S. If each of those only make 50 transactions a day, only six days a week, for fifty-two weeks a year... that would be far in excess of a million transactions a year. My suspicion is that would be a very low number. Multiply that by any five year period, and you are talking tens of millions of separate retail events.
In a five year period of time, if only two percent of the transactions lead to customer dissatisfaction, that would amount to 200,000 people. Some of those people would be 100% right and some would be unreasonable in their expectations.
I am not saying the OP is wrong or right, simply pointing out that any major retailer has this kind of problem. One would have to assume that to become the world's largest RV related retailer, they must have done far more things right than wrong.
RE: Thievery at my Storage Site!
I own some storage facilities specializing in RV storage. Most all stored units are in indoor individual units that would be very hard to break into. But, I also have a large demand for less expensive outdoor spaces that are not covered. I have never understood how someone spending in many cases hundreds of thousands of dollars can leave the unit outside, but people do.
The business buys the land, does the necessary infrastructure additions, and has to pay someone to manage and lease the spaces. Land in convenient locations is not cheap and roads, blacktop, water, fencing, gates, security measures, etc. are very expensive.
We charge $3.00 per linear foot a month with a minimum of $75. An armed guard will cost you about $6,000 a month for 12 hours a day. That would be the income from fifty 40 foot spaces monthly. Obviously, financially not feasible.
When you park an expensive item such as motor homes in what is basically an open field, the odds are very good eventually someone will go after the items inside. Buy good insurance with your outdoor storage savings and take your valuables out of it if possible. Certainly do not believe third hand information posted on a Forum that some attorney will get the storage place to pay when there is a loss. I have an entire firm of attorneys writing my documents and assuring me they will hold up in court. So far they have for nearly forty years in several States.
RE: What do you think of this dealer offer?
It is a given that the dealer is going to sell you the new unit and expect to make a profit. It is also a given that the dealer is going to normally give you the current wholesale value for your trade which theoretically allows him to eventually sell it for a profit.
The current acceptable price for the new unit is easily determined by contacting several Tiffin dealers and asking for a price to purchase the same unit. In a like manner, contact several of the many dealers who constantly advertise to buy used motor homes and ask what they will purchase your unit for, today.
When you have taken those two steps, you subtract the trade value from the purchase value and have the reasonable price you should pay in difference. Any other price someone on here is going to come up with is really not relevant. Reading enough posts on here will convince you that you should get a 40% discount on the new unit and retail for your trade. Something that is not going to happen.
Too many shoppers don't do their home work and are then at the mercy of the sales reps manipulation of the numbers. Something they are forced into because the shopper really doesn't have a clue to reality. It is really not rocket science work and an informed buyer will always do better than the emotional buyer.
RE: RV Repair for an unfortunate series of events
One would assume you have insurance. If so, I would get as far away from it as possible. Turn it over to your agent and let them handle the entire problem.
The shop does not have liability for the pre-existing problem, but there are going to be arguable points about where it starts and stops. Insurance adjusters are very used to dealing with these types of problems and better equipped.
RE: Price on used RV
The factor most people who are shopping miss in this discussion is price range and age of the unit. When looking at older units, more than six years, mileage and condition becomes a larger factor than when looking at a two or three year old unit.
While later model low mileage units in excellent condition are fairly abundant, it is much more difficult to find an older unit in the $50,000 price range. Supply and demand is much more balanced toward supply on late model coaches and the competition to sell is far greater. This drives the price below "book" and makes the assessment of the unit more critical.
Anyone who has looked for an older diesel pusher in the lower price range will realize finding a nice one is difficult. Finding a well kept low mileage unit for a low price is rare. Demand is high in this category, supply is low, and the price can easily surpass "book" value.
The biggest mistake the amateur makes is not assigning enough value to the quality of the product. You would be well served if you paid $10,000 more than book value for a low mileage older unit with a complete set of maintenance records and in nearly perfect condition. The question of book value will soon be forgotten when the repairs start on the bargain priced older unit.
RE: Have you seen my Television?
Was the dealer negligent with your property while it was in his possession? Did he leave it unlocked? Did he leave it parked somewhere other than on his property where he normally parks units? Did you not read or understand the papers you signed when you left the unit?
This is another case of "some other dude" should pay. We all have the right to buy insurance...or not. The same could have happened in your driveway, at Walmart, in storage, or any one of dozens of other places. Unless the dealer was negligent in some way, call your insurance. Not hiring an armed guard to watch your individual unit is not negligence.Come on JALLEN, you know better. Just because you are in the business...Many state have laws that protect customers. Just because Ohio doesn't have them does not give you the right to tell him that.
come on wny_pat
the OP said was in a fenced compound, & had security cameras. The dealer was NOT negligent!!
We keep DW jewellry in ours, laptop, LCD TV, sat receiver, etc; would dealer be responsible to replace all this in your line of thinking?
Don't think so--
Unfortunate that this happened to OP but I would think is between him, his own wallet and his own insurance company to decide who pays.I'm saying that in some states, the OP would be protected. OP was in California and JALLEN4 is talking about his experience in Ohio, which has different laws. And if the security cameras were actual security cameras, working, and properly installed and covering all angles.....then why didn't they catch someone. And then the fact the the thief had a master key to the rig. Wonder if he use to work there and had other keys to get in the facility. And knowledge of the security system.
When I operated in California, the laws were similar to many other states. The dealer's responsibility is to exercise reasonable care. It would seem that this was done with the presence of cameras and fencing. There have been sinilar incidents reported here in California where the dealer was not held liable. If the law has changed, so be it. But, someone is going to pay that bill in the form of higher repair rates.
For those people who think cameras solve all the problems, they are sorely mistaken. The majority of time you get a picture of a criminal wearing a hat or "hoodie" making him unidentifiable. Occasionally you get a nice picture of a criminal committing a crime but no one knows who he is. These kinds of crime are very low priority and are quickly forgotten after the report is taken. I have a nice collection of film that has proved to be useless.
As far as my right to enter my opinion, the difference is that I have a lot of experience dealing with these problems. Do you?
RE: buying off lot or special order..best deal ?
From what I have seen when you order you generally get a better price, a newer vehicle and exactly what you want. The trucks on the lot in this town are always loader with expensive stuff I don't want anyway and the dealers are trained in how to pressure you that what they have is unique and cannot be compared with any other vehicles anywhere else. I you want the best price send out a request for quote to at least 10 area dealers. Just mail it to them, don't even go to their lot. My father, my brother and I do this and we have averaged paying less than dealer cost for new vehicles. Yes, there really is a year end rebate that some dealers are willing to share with you. You generally have to go out of town to get the best price. Some people think that they get better service by buying from their local dealer but I have never noticed any difference, nor have I needed any real service anyway. Be sure that you ask for final, walk out the door price so they don't tack on extra profit later. You will have to do more homework to make sure that you spec out what you really want since you won't be able to see it before buying. Think of this too, if you buy late in the model year your "new" vehicle may have already been out in the weather over a year and not driven much during that time. If it has been test driven it was probably driven hard to see what it could do. If it was not test driven internal rust may have already gotten a start. I heard of several cases of "lot rot" on diesel turbos during the slow selling period.
It is not well known but to some extent you can also order used vehicles and get a good price. Just tell the dealers what you want and they can see if any are coming up at the dealer auction. If they know that it is already sold they can sell it for just over their cost and still make money.
I will end this by saying that there are exceptions to every rule and each person has to use methods that they are comfortable with. If you are not comfortable specing out a vehicle or buying sight unseen then don't.
There are some interesting theories there. So, if you live in Cleveland, you should maybe buy in Nashville? If you live in Nashville, you should go to Cleveland? How does that work?
If you and your brother and your father all buy for less than dealer cost, I bet the dealer hates to see you guys coming! It's tough for any retailer to sell product while losing money. Are you guys that much smarter and more knowledgeable than the dealers who do this for a living?
I you folks know all this "stuff", why don't you just go to any one of a dozen web-sites, print out the dealer cost and all the rebates, add a reasonable profit, and go to a local guy and make an offer. Wouldn't that save you all that out of town travel and all that postage?
RE: Lazy Days RV service
There are a lot of good reasons why folks are not allowed in service bays. Most all of which have nothing to do with trying to hide anything from the customer.
First, they are dangerous places for those who are not used to shops and the dealer isn't being paid to give a test to find out the level of training of the customer. The floors become very slippery, there are constantly moving vehicles, hanging equipment, and operations that require safety equipment by OSHA being done. There are dozens of other hazards that could be named. In case of an accident, the owner will always be liable.
Second, no mechanic is ever happy about giving lessons to an amateur, arguing about why he is doing something the way he is doing it, discussing the latest trip the customer took or the grandchildren problems, answering questions about the neighbors 1990 Chevy and what might be wrong with it, and a million other subjects that retired people with nothing better to do come up with. The mechanic is there to work and earn money so he too may some day retire.
Third, at some point fifty percent of the customers in a shop will try to get the mechanic to do something to cheat the dealer out of money. Everything from "How about I bring you used parts?" to "What about I bring it to your house and pay you cash to fix it?". If you don't understand that one, you have never been in the business.
I could write a book of other reasons after 40 years of watching this scenario. At the end of the day, customers in busy shops seldom ends well. If there is a question or a problem, you should be escorted to your vehicle, the problem answered, and escorted back to the waiting room. You are paying to get the unit fixed and you are entitled to have that happen. You are not entitled to watch every step and give the technician the third degree. If the customer actually knew what he was talking about, odds are he would have fixed it himself to begin with.
RE: buying off lot or special order..best deal ?
When making your decision, you should keep in mind what is the driving force in todays auto sales market, rebates. These incentives, to both the dealer and the consumer, change often and will have an expiration date. The unit on the lot may fall under as much as 5 or 6 thousand in incentives that might be greatly reduced when the ordered vehicle actually arrives. On the other hand there may be more incentives when the ordered vehicle arrives. Contrary to some opinion, dealers are not normally told in advance and are as much a victim as the consumer.
RE: Dissappointed in RV Wholesalers after sale service
People keep using the term "wholesale dealer" and in reality have not a clue what they are saying. There is no legal definition in any state where a dealer that sells to the public is "wholesale" nor do any manufacturers hand out sales and service agreements designated "wholesale".
The whole concept is based on choosing a catchy name, advertise heavily on the Internet, have a minimum inventory, and invest very frugally on facilities. That includes never investing what it should take to actually service the number of units they sell. They then quote a very low price upfront using basically telemarketers and prey on the unsophisticated buyer who thinks price is the only part of the transaction to be considered.
While any other full line dealer could match the price offered, many if not most don't care to. Some dealers actually feel they are responsible to service what they sell and to offer a more complete package to the consumer. They have no interest in enticing people from thousands of miles away to buy their product and to never be seen again. It is the dealership owners prerogative to choose their marketing method and I would imagine most from both schools of thought are happy with theirs.
RE: Have you seen my Television?
Was the dealer negligent with your property while it was in his possession? Did he leave it unlocked? Did he leave it parked somewhere other than on his property where he normally parks units? Did you not read or understand the papers you signed when you left the unit?
This is another case of "some other dude" should pay. We all have the right to buy insurance...or not. The same could have happened in your driveway, at Walmart, in storage, or any one of dozens of other places. Unless the dealer was negligent in some way, call your insurance. Not hiring an armed guard to watch your individual unit is not negligence.
RE: How many class A's sold in the last 10 years?
The Class A market at peak is around 45,000 annual units. The last two years have been substantially down from that number as we all know. The market is not as large as some suspect. Cars and light duty trucks sell as many in one day as Class A's sell in a year when the market is normal. Over the past ten years, if you use a total of four-hundred thousand, you will be within 10%.
RE: They want $5K
I would be very cautious accepting the advice to replace with used parts from a salvage yard. The parts normally carry some sort of warranty but it does not cover labor. Until the part is installed, no one really has a clue if it is good or bad except for the exterior visual inspection. I have gone through three or four before finding a good one and then had no idea how long it would last.
Many reputable shops will not install used parts from the salvage yard. Many "shade tree" guys will and it is a viable alternative for those doing their own work. Sometimes it works well the first time and lasts for awhile, often it does not. Ther reputable shop doesn't want to take the risk of standing behind this kind of arrangement as the consumer is going to complain loudly, even when told upfront of the potential risks, when it doesn't work.
RE: Dealer Hold Back?
Hold Back is 3% of MSRP minus freight on domestic vehicles. It has nothing to do with the floor plan on vehicles. In fact it was instituted by the manufacturer to assist their cash flow by holding the dealer's money. Originally it was paid once a year but several years ago dealers were given different options with benefits and penalties as to when they can receive the Hold Back. The invoice minus the Hold Back is the actual dealer net price minus any incentives. The incentives offered are usually not on every vehicle and can be dealer only or direct to the consumer. They change often and run for various periods of time.
Dealers also receive floor plan assistance funds calculated per vehicle. These funds are paid whether the vehicle is floored or not. Most dealers who properly control their inventory make a profit on these funds on a yearly basis.
When domestic dealers sell to actual employees, they generally receive 5% of the MSRP minus freight for the sale. This does not apply to supplier discounts, friends and family discounts, etc. so often seen advertised. These sales have different calculations for dealer compensation.
RE: RV dealer flooded
PBDB
I think if you go back and read the entire closed thread you quoted from you will have your answer.
Now that would be contrary to the basis of the internet and this Forum to actually have to read everything and be knowledgeable. :)
RE: Pathetic Salesman
I have a 40 ft. DP that I bought new and have owned for more than six years. If you ask me about the frame construction of my unit, I too would not have a clue. I can tell you how the slides work. You press one end of the rocker switch to go out and the opposite end to go in. But, then again, I was much more interested in buying what I wanted rather than " close to being serious" when I originally bought mine.
The salesman who sold me the unit did know a couple of very important things. He knew where the keys were and he knew where a dealer tag was so I could drive it. He also knew how to introduce me to the sales manager to give me the answer to my offer and he knew how to take my money when I paid for it. After six years of ownership, I have found no reason to know what the frame construction is and really could care less how the slides work as long as they go in and out.
I really wonder how the majority of people would stack up if the general public could just willy/nilly come by their job, observe, and then grade their performance on the internet? All of this anonymously and basically without recourse or response from the person being graded.
RE: I 75 Thu Atlanta Ga. Question
We got stuck in rush hour on I75 northbound once, and have always used 285 west since then. I will adhere to the posters suggestions, monitor 750AM, and try I75 straight through next time depending on the time of day. Not meaning to butt in, but can we run a MH towing a trailer in the HOV lane?
Yes you can.
RE: GM's return policy????
GM has sold approximately 150,000 cars since the program started. About 100 people have taken the money back guarantee, the rest took the $500. One person has actually returned a vehicle.
RE: Would you winterize if stored inside?
I own more than a hundred storage units for motor homes that are heated. They are also well insulated. Over the last two years I have never seen a power outage that lasted long enough to cause a coach to freeze. If the building is insulated (if not how do you reasonably heat it) it will take more than a couple hours for the unit to freeze. I have a friend with a couple hundred units who has never had a problem in more than ten years.
