Wow, what makes the Lance almost twice the price?
Most likely because the Lance has composite/Azdel construction. Similar to "green" build in our Evergreen.
You do realize that in manufacturing, raw materials, for the most part are the lowest percentage of the cost of manufacture, the value is added by labor added to construct a finished product. So slightly more expensive material does not justify a huge price increase. Slightly more expensive labor, with burden and overhead and profit added on top, is what jacks the price up. Basic cost accounting.
I'd find something you like, and find an RV dealership somewhere near Indiana, if that's where it's made, negotiate a deal, and then take a vacation driving up there to pick it up with huge savings, and then drive it back home. Your payments should be significantly lower doing it this way, not having to pay shipping costs, or finance them, or get taxed on them too.
We all learn from our mistakes...
If only that were true. It is for most us, I hope, but there are some that never learn.
While I prefer to learn from other peoples mistakes, it's good to be reminded, if inexpensively, that we are all human, and not perfect. Got a few boners under my belt too, while camping.
MargaretB....I'm afraid the tone of this conversation may be upsetting you and I hope that you understand that folks are just trying to keep you from making a mistake. I also think that perhaps a few posters are missing the point that your Sequioa has the tow package. If you believe it does, just double check to see if that is correct...stop at a Toyota dealership and have them take a look.
Now, if your Sequioa has the tow package and is rated to tow 9K, keep in mind that you have to deduct passengers and other gear in the truck. Secondly, the payload capacity of the truck may not allow you to tow anywhere near the 9k it may be rated to handle.
Since I have a 5.7 Tundra, I can tell you that based upon my trailers (one that I traded in and the Winnie), there is no way in ==== that I would tow much more than 7k with the Toyota. My goal when we bought the new trailer was to get our towing weight down to around 6K. So, I started with the Winnie that has a DRY weight of only 4,820 lbs. After options (awning, propane tanks, battery, etc.), I was figuring that the weight would be closer to 5,200 lbs. or so. After getting the trailer, we transferred our gear, and were getting ready to leave on a trip. Before packing food, I went to CAT scales and weighed the trailer and the weight came in at 6,200 lbs. So, anytime I'm towing, I'm towing somewhere between 6,200 and 6,300 lbs. In the back of the truck, I keep a blue tote, two folding bikes, tool kit, Weber Baby Q grill and 5 lb. propane tank and possibly some firewood.
With my Equalizer hitch with good weight distribution and sway control, the set up has my trailer just down a bit slightly. And for now, I only have P rated tires on the truck, so I inflate them to the max pressure. When they have to be replaced, I'll put on LT tires. Bottom line, I can tow my trailer very safely BUT, I really wouldn't want to tow much more weight irregardless of what the towing capacity states.
IMHO, if your truck is rated for 9000 lbs., you need to start out with a trailer that is only 4,000 lbs. or so dry weight. Insist that the dealer get the trailer you would like weighed at nearby CAT scales. By starting out at only 4K, you will end up towing around 5.5 K and I think that should be alright (IF YOU HAVE 9,000 lb. capacity).
But before you purchase, know not only your tow capacity, but the truck's payload capacity and how to figure it out. It has been discussed so many times on this forum the number of folks that buy too heavy of a rig and discover they need a new TV. That is why you are getting the responses here. So, just proceed with caution and do your homework.
This is spot on... I have a 2013 Touareg TDI with 406 ft lbs of torque and 240 HP diesel TDI, rated 600# tongue weight and 1100 lbs, with 7700 lbs tow capacity.
My Travel trailer weighs 3700# dry. Add in equalizer/weight distribution hitch, propane tanks, pair of 6v golf cart batteries, 10 gallons of water so I can shower in route from Los Angeles to Yellowstone, and all my other stuff, portable solar panel, Honda Eu2000i generator, fuel, etc, etc, and I am at 5050# tow weight, on the CAT scale.
You have to start at close to 50% or a bit more of what your total tow capacity in lbs is, is for towing, for your dry weight.
I spoke to your buddy James over there in Santa Ana at Trojan Headquarters yesterday... about all kinds of golf cart batteries, equipment, leases, and charging them back up.
He says a 30 point spread in SG should be aquired before performing a 16.0V Equalize charge. He also said that if 14.8V won't bring your SG up above, 1.240 to 1.250, bump the voltage up for float V to 15.0V, and if that still doesn't get the SG up, bump it up to 15.3V float V. And if that still does not get you to a SG of 1.275, then go full monty to 16.0V and watch your battery temperature, making sure you at all times keep it below 115F when doing so.
Golf cart batteries are measured in number of holes of golf you can play on them. A Golf Cart battery has a prerequisite to not slow down or drop V over 36 holes between nightly recharging. Obviously, most managers of golf carts don't know or care about this when they get busy... and end up playing 54 or 72 holes, with unfavorable battery life results to the batteries before getting their overnight charging.
James said that indeed, while not published, 15.0V or even a bit more in 50F temps, is fine, as long as your battery does not have a roilly bubble going on inside the cells, champagne bubbles are fine. T105's are designed to handle plenty of plate shedding deposits at the bottom of the battery cell, before problems arise and the cells get build up between the plates and short out internally.
Trojan expects about 3 years or 1000 to 1100 two full rounds or 36 hole golf course cycles per 24 hour period before performance starts suffering on a golf cart battery.
Another very juicy tidbit for all you solar panel hounds / freaks that are measuring your amps in and amps out while recharging /discharging. Battery charging is only 80 to 85% efficient, you lose 15 to 20% of your amps going in recharging... so if you took 100 amp hours out, and you metered it, it will take you 115 to 120 amp hrs from your solar panels, going back in to replace the electricity and overcome thermal losses and chemical resistance to recharge back to where you originally were.
Obviously you haven't seen the new Lance TT's
They have 15,000 BTU AC's, , you can get them with no decals if that's what you want, and I won't comment on the rest of your bs.
And I don't need to insult your intellegent, you do a good job of that by yourself.
Time to get out of the time warp your living in.
I think your just a Troll, and I will not waste any more of my time on you.
I decided it was far better for me to put my money in a nice very limited part time tow vehicle that I'd use every day, in the form of a VW Touareg AWD Sport TDI SUV, and use occasionally for towing, that still gets about 33 MPG most of the time I drive it, and still gets 17 to 19 mpg towing my 21 foot throw away travel trailer. Hence, I didn't ever find or see the added perceived value in the Lance version, versus an Eclipse, built in Riverside, or a Fun Finder X, though I did consider and almost bought a Jayco rear model pushout.
My consideration was the cost of living here in So Cal makes the cost of labor prohibitive in the TT market, compared to the cost of living of cheap labor in the Midwest, and then still having to add in the trucking charges from most of the RV industries in IN to the west coast. Even with no shipping charges and Lance being local to me, they were not a value added proposition, not when I was retired and could go pick a new TT up in the Midwest on a vacation trip and about $800 in diesel round trip, and save about $4000 on the shipping bill. So picking it up myself, a $21,000 list TT that was selling for $18.8k locally, at a blow out year end sale, ended up being $13,300 out the door, FOB Indiana.
In my opinion, Lance is riding on their name and coat tails from their camper days, but it does not translate into their Travel Trailer line.
YMMV, perhaps I am blind and don't know what I am talking about, or perhaps I have a quality perception problem. I failed to see the Value Added in a Lance TT. Not for what they are asking. Is a Nash or an Artic Fox built better too? I can't say I've seen their production line.
Lance does not use staples in their cabinets. Hate them if you must but don't make false statements. Are you sure you were at the Lance factory? Maybe you were smoking some of the green stuff. :B
This is from 2010
"RV PRO: When did Lance make the business decision to expand its line into travel trailers?
Jacobson: Actually, it took place a little over a year ago with the Düsseldorf RV show in Germany. There we saw the methods of construction that the Europeans were using, and we felt they were a lot more advanced than what we were using. We did some inquiring into what was done and how it was done, and we started to import not just the CNC machinery, but also materials. The cabinet material that we now use in both our trailers and our campers is made in Spain. It has a very lightweight core, looks like wood, and it is finished on both sides. By using it, we eliminate the use of wood sticks and staples in cabinets."
Questions & Answers with Norm Jacobson
Re read, mention of 2012 was on LED's in lights and no SD cards in radio entertainment center. I've looked at cabinets in Lance campers, pre 2010 also. I've looked at the whole product line. At the time, they were trying to get a new rear push out design on a camper ready for an up and coming RV show.
Been using adjustable Euro hinges on custom red oak or paint grade cabinets, since, oh, 1990, as well as screw and glue on stiles and rails. Please don't insult my intelligence. Lovely that Lance gets into the game 20 years later.
IMHO, not worth the money, and yes, it's still a throw away camper... still putting little 9000 Btu Coleman Polar Bear AC's in the unit back then also, instead of a 13.5Btu Dometic. About as aerodynamic as a Brick, and the hugest decal lettering saying LANCE front and rear, that I've ever seen, in 1970's airbrushed chrome styled lettering... something I found rather vain on a TT.
you get that in an 18650 liIon now. 2500mAh or 2.5 amps for $4.00 per cell. Problem is it's a 3.7 v cell.Maybe use a small DC-DC converter on the output?
well, put 3 or 4 in series... and you are at $16 for 15V and 2500mah... that won't fit Mex's cutoff for cost effectiveness.
"Also, you say not to get input from owners of a brand of TT, but to get it from people who haven't owned one. So your saying I should listen to people like you that formed an opinion from a factory tour, and ignore owners who have owned one"
Oh, come on My Roadtrek, that's the new American way! Don't listen to people with experience in a subject, listen to people who have a superficial awareness of a subject, but haven't done in-depth research.
While a tour of a factory can be enlightening, I would venture to say that most people, if they watched their house being built, would be appalled and say it was shoddy workmanship. But, once all the nails are in, siding on, etc, the house is stable, and is pretty good. Granted, not as good as a custom home at a much higher rate for the labor, but it still is a good house. But, unless we buy a very-high-end custom trailer, most are built with about the same level of care and quality control.
To bash a brand that one has not owned is irresponsible. It is like people on this forum bashing a poster based on a few comments. We don't know the posters as individuals, so we really can't say if someone is good, bad, educated, ignorant, or just trying to incite a discussion. All posts should be viewed as someone's opinion, and taken with a grain of salt.
Buy whatever you like... I was a general contractor for years here in CA, built custom homes, did remodels, kitchens, bathrooms, custom cabinetry installs, etc. I would not spend my money on a Lance TT, as I don't see the quality justifying the premium price. YMMV. I could not find the added value in the construction process. I looked inside the cabinets, and saw staples, not glue and screws. Looked at how the valences were attached to the walls around windows. Looked at the bathroom door jambs and latches and how they engaged. When I was watching 2013's being built in Oct of 2012 on the production line, Lance STILL was not using LED's for lighting on the production line. Their radios and sound system, STILL were not taking SD cards for storage and playback of music, something even my old 2008 Honda CRV had as a feature in the infotainment center.
Outdated components at the time.
Yep, I'm an @sshole, and of course, I don't know what I am talking about. Whatever...
Korbe, apparently you didn't read Jeff's post. He's complaining about the whiners and whining about the complainers.
Now that's funny!:BYeah, that...
Ok, Funny aside... Jeff, are you having FUN yet?Yeah.. So much that I left the phone inside and missed your call. You up on Plomosa?
Yup... and I had a great time, too! Very friendly camping neighbors 200 yds away introduced themselves. Nothing but good people and happy campers with just the right touch of socializing out this way, as far as I am concerned.
I can see how this could easily be an annual event to go visit.
On another note, I gave up after being seated 1.5 hours at the Grubstake on Monday night, only to find that it would be another 1.5 hours until we would be served our ordered dinner of Fish and chips. No thank you, I am done with them and can not recommend them, not with the complete lack of communication by the waitress. Paid for my rootbeer and left.
I've noticed a few come with a 15a charger. How weird is that???I find it weird too. And I haven't seen any large amp LI chargers either. You would think high amps chargers would be more common with LI.
Hey Landyacht! For me, the big deal with LI is 80% DOD, lighter weight per amp-hour (even lighter because you don't need as large a batt bank), flat discharge curves and zero maintenance (actual zero maintenance not the don't choose to do any maintenance, zero maintenance). The rest falls in the techie neato category (which I have no problems talking about all day long :B).
I am in this camp. Lighter battery means less tongue weight on the TT for me, a good thing. Also with LiFePo having a cut off BCM and steady voltage from 90% to 10% SOC... I am thinking that even with running the heater... unlikely with 100 AH Li FE Po, even with 80 amps useable, I'll ever really get too deep into the battery with running the heater at night, although the damn blower sure is noisy. Compares favorably to the 90 pounds of T-1275 that yields 75 amp hours for 50% SOC.
I think I have more than a few years left in my T-1275's before I'll have to fork out the $Bignum for LiFePo, so hopefully the price of
'em continues to fall.
Trojan batteries better get off the FLA and AGM battery bandwagon and start working with the new Li battery chemistries, before they go the way of the buggy whip.
Please post up the link to the Youtube video for the awning replacement.
It is best to contact the manufacturer of your awning for instructions, in your case, it is Dometic.
I have the same G210 version in a 2012... w a Dometic electric, and it is not a sunchaser.
Dometic instructions required 8 turns on the rear most arm of the awning, the motor was on the front arm.
Here you go, that should give an idea. It is best to tension rolled up, with the arm zip tied against a block- just a little extended. It's 8 turns rolled up. You can tension, then put a cotter pin in to hold it.
When I was in my 20's, I lived for 3 years in a Winnebago Minnie Winnie. My one remaining memory is the very small fresh and grey water. I was in no way self-contained.
In my spare time I fly fish, bird hunt, and sea kayak. I hire guides and their equipment to do all three. I will get dirty and do need to shower. Clothes, food, and my bulldog will constitute most of the weight.
My Coast Guard duties take me from the lighthouses in Puget Sound to the gun ranges at the Mexican border. I very rarely go to the mountains. Our scientific lab equipment is digital and weighs virtually nothing. I will camp most of the time at military RV bases with full hook-ups.
A fully optioned out 1985 weighs about 4,200lbs. 30 gallons of fluids at 8lbs. per gallon is 240lbs for a total of 4,440lbs. With food, clothes, fly rods, 43lb. 2,000 watt Honda generator, I am pushing it. I wonder how much the a weight distributing hitch and sway control will add? I don't mind driving 50-55mph, but a must be able to brake under control
Sell the Toyota and get something with a small 3.0L 400 lb ft of torque or some such diesel motor... A RAM 1500 Eco diesel, or the new Nissan Titan XD. I tow with a VW Touareg Sport SUV TDI with the 3.0L 240HP 406 lb ft model rated for 7700 lb of towing, with the tow package.
Or scale down and get a smaller, lighter TT.
I toured the Lance factory and was not impressed at all with the quality of material or workmanship, not for the price they ask for a Lance TT. Lance may have a good name in Full Length Campers in 8 foot pickup beds, but I didn't find them any better in the TT's they make.
Soliciting from where you did will get you fanboi input from various owners. Find input from people that don't own the product and don't have a dog in the hunt for better input.
When I posted this thread I thought most would agree with my opinion. To the contrary. I always side with caution and don't push the limits of my tow vehicle as maybe it were intended. I guess every persons tow situation is different. I tow long distances and often in mountainous areas. On two lane, curvy roads with with 6% or higher grades. Some people may only be towing 30 miles each way on flat, straight roadways. I may think different if I towed short distances on straight, flat roadways.
Example: if your truck was rated for 12,000lbs. 10,000lbs trailer, 1,500 cargo, 500lbs of livelihood in your tow vehicle, 100lbs of firewood, 100lbs generator, 250lbs fuel = 12,450.
POINT BLANK a 1/2 ton truck is not a safe way to tow a 10,000lbs trailer, with all the amenities needed to take a trip.
Not when loaded up with batteries, 2 tanks of propane, water if you tank up your fresh at the last stop before setting up for camp, food, all the foo foo stuff the wife loaded in the trailer, plus all your hunting and fishing gear, lead weights, ammo and targets for practice, and on, and on, and on.
The guy with the 1/2 ton pickup and a TT is the last guy you'll ever see on the scales to see if they are overloaded while they plan to drive on public highways and interstates.
The guys with the 3/4 ton or 1 ton dually, and the 5th wheel is more likely, due to the amount of weight involved and getting it all safely stopped, to hit the scales and check to see if they are within limits. There's a lot of 2 lane roads and steep grades once you get into the Rocky's and further west to contend with, stuff that makes engine brakes on diesels and such nice added features to prevent you from burning up your brakes going down hill.
Ok so 480w flat is lots of solar. My single 230w tracking does all our needs (big inverter, the works) and if flat instead of tracking that 230w would be like having 369w flat where and when we camp. 480w flat is 111w more than that, so you have tons of solar.
That means you don't have to extract every drop out of your solar to get by, there is lots of margin. Which means any "extra" you would hope to get by going MPPT is not needed. You already have lots of "extra" So whyinheck pay big bucks for enough MPPT to run those four panels? Crazy
You are like the guy who got an extra panel for his PWM instead of going MPPT because it was cheaper that way to get the extra.
So IMO the two eBay PWMs is still the way to go and you even get redundancy out of the deal.
This... get a pair of Ebay Solar 30's PWM's, one for each pair of panels, have the margin, and call it good.
Well somebody please nip out there and measure panel voltage during Absorb/Float while running a load that puts amps above array total Isc.
It is easy to do. Just put the meter across the pos and neg controller input terminals or do it out at the panel. Nothing disconnected of course.
My Vmp is 30v so when I check for that when MPPT is on I get 29.3 at panel and 29 at controller. So I have a 1% line loss there. YMMV. Trouble is I never took the voltage later on after it dropped out of MPPT. Can't check again till after mid-April.
So somebody here must be on MPPT solar now that can help out! :)
Someone down in Quartzsite, AZ.
I am just stopping by the TOWING forum, which has become WEENIE truck land. Where on the TOWING forum, we advocate for the slowest truck with the least power, and have determined that in spite of industry data to prove otherwise, most folks use their trucks exclusively to pick up groceries. Cue the twilight zone soundtrack.
Or the reality, that many half tons do split duty, part time empty, part time overloaded. And much of the time not being driven gently or slowly. Making underpowered trucks that require a $200 service, and fuel that costs 50% the dumbest possible option I can think of.
North Dakota Fuel Price.
Even if you only want a grocery getter, you don't need a 6000# one that burns fuel that is 50% more.
Depends where you live and drive...
Los Angeles Diesel
About the same price for diesel as Premium.