When Boeing has misfires it raises my eyebrows. That is one sharp group of engineers. They had fires with LiPo. THE MILITARY REFUSES TO USE THEM in large capacity devices. I love the promise of LiPO but I am very leery of the drawbacks. Like a new medicine, new designs might encourage the development of a couple extra eyeballs when preliminary studies had shown the product to be a miracle. Electric car manufacturers spent millions developing monitoring and safety control systems for their vehicles.
The real test of a product is to turn it loose on the public, wait a couple of years then a conclusion can be reached. I simply do not trust vendors and customers opinions of a new technology product. Some of you may be too young to remember the introduction of the J.C Penney Forever battery. Or the totally miserable performance and lifespan of sealed Calcium/calcium "deep cycle" batteries.
My limited knowledge of lithium includes memories of hot as hell computer batteries and cell phone batteries that were also hot as hell in my pocket after making a long call. Education would be in order but the cost of samples to play with are far beyond my resources ability. unless they find a way to make an excellent product that can reasonably compete with AGM amp hour cost wise my interest remains subdued.
Your Galaxy S2 that I gave you uses LiIon battery packs. They don't get hot charging, because they charge so slow, maybe 300 or 400Mah rate. Not a problem dissipating the heat then. When you get a Galaxy S4 and 2000Mah charge rate and done in 45 minutes to an hour, you get some heat... I just call it good at 90% SOC and don't waste the time for the last 10%, myself.
Each chemistry has it's own quirks. With lithium, I have no idea at all if the battery could withstand max absorbsion voltage inrush. There's a question of monitoring temperature that I have not studied. A few months ago I looked online for white papers on the subject but ran into a blank wall. There is more to the subject than meets the eye. I do not trust vendor "sales-before-logic" rhetoric.
A power supply that may be forward compatible with other chemistrys would be good, if at all possible, in the parameter designs. Maybe look at PD's product lineup now, with lithium batteries in the mix.
Or play dumb, call them up, ask the engineers some questions about the differences in charging of various battery chemistry? PD and IOTA for starters?
Apparently I have "lift-off" on the power supplies
Deal has been struck. Free Shipping bulk packaged. Units have paralleling ports. Unfit for flooded batteries these critters are for VRB only.Shortage of what, max voltage? Are they forward compatible with different battery chemistry, like LiFePo4, which some say you should charge at 13.6V to 90% not 14.4V to 100%, it's hard on battery life cycles?
Hey.....I'm no fan of anything hecho en China but given that almost everything available to us comes from overseas, it seems ya get what ya get these days.
And just to update the thread, having not looked at them since last year, I opened the batteries and they were all low in water level. I filled them up and plan on keeping an eye on how they do and if that affect what the converter does. I'm also looking at a PD unit but I'm not thrilled about spending a couple hundred at the moment unless I have no choice.
You should be able to buy a unit on Ebay, as a stand alone, install in storage area close to battery, like a Progressive Dynamics PD 9245 or 9260, for $120-140. shop around, maybe buy it this fall when everyone has put their RVS away up north.
Mountaintop power is as bad or worse than the worst CG feeds. They are always at the end of the line, and anythng hanging on the AC can be a cause or victum. A simple window A/C can and does bounce the building. So, yeah...we want them on ultra clean, low impedance power resistant to all that.
Can it then be implied that the Iota charge controller, then, delivers ultra clean DC power to all the batteries, regardless of voltage input? How do they filter the output? Have you scoped the output?
The Iota is a more expensive charge controller than a PD, does it make a difference when you are running a Honda Eu2000i for your generator and 120v power source?
Keep in mind, I am a layman with this stuff, you might have to dumb it down for me a bit to comprehend.
Oh dear sir come to Mexico and bring a beach towel to cry into and a bottle of tranquilizers. If you wander into a Mexican RV campground have a buddy along with a traquilizer dart gun. When you go nuts they'll carry you out. It's sad when a computer voltagrr protector is needed to Protect a Tektronix scope when analyzing power.
You need to see the brighter side of things... you're exposed to less RF down there in a 3rd world country like Mexico, perhaps a little better for your health?
Been here 10 years, possible Harvard Grad, try the search function for "how to desulphate"
A 20W solar panel probably has no diode in the circuit. It charges during the day, and drains the battery at night, if left connected continuously. Disconnect before the sun sets, and connect in the day light or add a diode in line.
Thank you again everyone. I'm going to check out everything today and see what I find out. Just pointing out though that now home and plugged into power here, the converter is working fine. I know that doesn't prove there isn't an issue with it too.....
Do a search on "WFCO" here and read up. You'll find out they are cheap chinese junk.
My suggestion is to forget about the WFCO, just don't waste your time doing any more research work with it, replace it now. Because sooner or later it will fail on you and leave you in a bad pinch without electricity when you really do need electricity, and then you'll be out in the boonies and have to pay extortion prices and full pop for a replacement Progressive Dynamics or Iota. Better to have it replaced now, and save yourself the research and headaches on a future trip. Buy a unit on Ebay for a good price instead.
Failure of WFCO's is a common occurence, it's a known lack of quality. Plenty of people have been down this road before, ahead of you.
.....Would you go to work for 4 hours and not get paid?
Actually - YES - I used to be in the business of solving technical problems. If I could not solve the customer's problems, then I would not charge them. The customer hired me to solve a problem and I failed - it's on me.
In this case, the shop told me that by doing X, it would fix the problem, they did X and it DIDN'T fix the problem. They offered to do Y - at which point I said no and fixed the problem myself.
That is why I asked the original question;
BTW - I already paid - I was wondering what the etiquette is, so next time I know for sure.
thanks to all
I would have them undo whatever "X" was, since it didn't solve the problem, and ask for a full refund. Or leave "X" in and request full refund also, as "X" was a faulty or wrong diagnosis.
Never reward incompetence.
I think mexi might have a shade of Aspergers, and rechargeable batteries are his fascination. Those that are purists would be wise to take notes on his posts. All others can continue to be blissfully ignorant of plug and play charge controllers, and their down sides.
I have a computer repair business. Been doing this for over thirty years. I don't charge for anything I can't repair. Now if they ask me to look at it, tell them whats wrong and they want to repair it. I charge them for the time. I also let them know if it's worth repairing. I don't bill them for the time.
This is pretty standard with electric and electronic troubleshooting. As a consumer, you should adjust the expectations of the company soliciting your business.
Rewarding bad business practices is enabling said thieves to try it again and again for another success at screwing a customer out of their money for producing nothing or not solving the problem, while getting paid to do nothing of real value. Pay for problem solved, or don't pay at all.
MAYBE A DOSE OF CONSUMER EDUCATION SHOULD BE IN ORDER
The the service writer you demand the estimate with the following points clearly spelled outEstimate is to be titled REPAIR, DIAGNOSE, OR DIAGNOSE TO DETERMINE REPAIR ESTIMATE ESTIMATEThe second or follow-up estimate should read ESTIMATE FOR REPAIRWhen diagnostics are performed INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS and circuits troubleshot and results must be detailedThis protects the customer from diagnostic failures that another shop may find in that circuitNinety five percent of so-called electrical technicians replace part after part and chalk it up to parts sold AS ELECTRICAL PARTS CAN NOT BE RETURNED or EXCHANGEDThe customer may get a whole basketful of new, unneeded expensive parts added onto the billBecause of what I did for a living I was exposed to this PRECISE issue repeatedly. I did not take time out to do car harness troubleshooting or repair, but as an example I did find shops that did work on my level and even more talented. Ed's Auto Electric in Lancaster California is such an example. This guy was talented and fastSuch good shops exist but percentage-wise seem to be in the 5% minorityProtect yourself DEMAND all replaced items to be returned to you in a bag. Even a bad electrical harness plugIn California the state department of CONSUMER AFFAIRS BUREAU of AUTO REPAIR (800-952-5210) used to be an incompetent's or Crook's nightmareI appeared for three depositions for the plaintiff after performing counter-diagnostics and finding obvious incompetence or fraud.
I am sitting on a 20 k mile used oil filter, used cabin filter, used fuel filter, and a $410 broken electronic black box labeled a trailer controller. VW Customer Care offered to pay for half of the black box cost, since I pointed out to them it only lasted 44% of it's expected warranty 3 year or 36,000 mile warranty life.
The check is in the mail, I am satisfied with how VW handled the problem. Did I get a full 3 year warranty? No, but they at least made things fair enough such that I only paid prorated for the portion of service I got out of the unit. Fair enough, in my books. Better than grabbing the ankles and taking one dry in the shorts.
Next time, I will make sure that the trailer package is preinstalled by VW when I buy new. I just was unable to find one I wanted with a tow package already on it. VW fixed that in 2014, all Touaregs came with trailer tow packages and hitches, in the USA.
I live in NH. I found a great solar internet site based in MA. I can order panels and drive down & pick them up, no shipping charges.
I don't know how ANYONE can have great prices with free shipping.
What thread are you on? Certainly not this one.
BTW, I took my VW Touareg in 3 weeks ago for a towing brake module that was non op. I was not getting electrical brakes to my Prodigy RF brake controller, and I was not getting 12V from my tow vehicle to the Trailer battery.
I ran a scan with VW Audi Group specific software to trouble shoot the problem. Software and cable said the brake control module had failed. Seems it failed Jan 16th, 2015 on my way to Quartzsite, when I first hooked up the trailer, it showed as "failed connection". Logged, timed, everything. Unit failed in 17 months, and not even 5000 miles of trailering.
Checked fuses, all 5 of them were good, checked main T-30 fuse (40 amps) and it too was good. Pinned out the voltage to the module and had 12V at input side of the module.
Took it in to VW, they ran the exact same diagnostics tests and pin out tests that I did, after bringing them in the print outs of my scan and proclaiming the towing brake module had failed. Took them 4 hours of trouble shooting.
They told me they ordered the part, it was covered under warranty. Part would be in in a week, had to be ordered from Germany.
Part was not in in a week, and when it did arrive, they told me the tech that worked on my car was on vacation and it would be another week.
Two weeks later, this Wednesday, I take the car in again. Tech is working on it and service writer asks me if I installed the trailer controller. I answered yes I did. He told me then that I would have to pay $400 for the new trailer controller. I told him I'll take my car now, thank you. He said VW wouldn't cover it unless they originally installed it. I told him the installation didn't fail, the part did.
I told him the module is plug and play, proprietary plugs, and it was not the installation that failed or needed warrantying, but the part why were you doing the labor and trouble shooting under warranty, but not the part?
Good luck VW dealership for getting paid for troubleshooting from corporate, I'll buy the part from a junkyard if you won't warranty the part, and take the 10 minutes to R&R the plug and play part.
This homie don't play that game. I didn't pay a cent. Shop isn't going to get paid for labor either. Part of that 3 year /36 month bumper to bumper warranty.
Service writer told me they had to order the new part, to compare and test against the old part to compare outputs. Service writer told me 2 weeks ago, it was all covered under warranty, part and labor.
Drag it out 2 plus weeks to make me feel thankful I am getting my trailer controller fixed so I can camp this summer. This is how they break you down, and squeeze the money out of you, the wrong way. Not me.
This VW dealership is located in LA county in the high desert. ;-)
proprietary connector plug ins.
Popped the cover off, nothing on the circuit board appears fried or burnt. Maybe a bad solder connection or a bad chip...
My take on it is this: Work gets done when something gets accomplished. You took it to the shop, nothing got accomplished, therefore, no work got done. If I take a project on and I can't fix it, I need to stop, cut my losses short and move on. I can't bill for what I didn't do or resolve, the whole purpose of bringing it in to the shop. They were in over their head, nothing owed.
Never confuse effort with results, you pay for results.
Wow! Wish we could apply this to politicians, or road crews. Ever see five guys standing around watching one guy work a shovel? I'll bet we're paying for six, not one.
What would you want to bet that those 6 employees are on a union paid job a prevailing wage, or it's a government paid job?
Four years ago a Mexican lady asked me to fix her generator. After two hours I narrowed it down to a specific transistor that had shorted on the board. I would not think of charging her one centavo. No transistors of that genre were available.The next lady may ask you to load some bricks and drive them to the next town in four hours.
So you load up her truck but find the bridge is out so you must return. She says you are not competent because you did not check the roads before you did the work. So she says unload and no pay. Good luck.
So next week the bridge repair foreman asks you to review the plans for the repair. You spend a day calculating and reviewing but it needs no real changes. Foreman says you really did not do anything so he will not pay. You are fine just knowing the repair will be made.
Reviewing the bridge plans is a engineering salary job for an employee, probably contracted by an Engineering firm or outfit. Otherwise it would be a fixed price contract job done by a professional sole proprietor whose specialty is engineeering. You'd get paid, regardless and probably would set up a billing schedule with some percentage of pay before starting, and the balance at completion.
No delivery company would take those terms, not even UPS or Fed Ex. There may be penalty clauses for late delivery, but the contract would be written correctly so that the carrier gets paid, with a minor penalty in pay for late delivery.
That's how the real world works, it's all in how the contract is written. The fool that doesn't understand a bit of contract law is the person that gets taken advantage of.
My take on it is this: Work gets done when something gets accomplished. You took it to the shop, nothing got accomplished, therefore, no work got done. If I take a project on and I can't fix it, I need to stop, cut my losses short and move on. I can't bill for what I didn't do or resolve, the whole purpose of bringing it in to the shop. They were in over their head, nothing owed. Businesses get paid to solve problems. Don't solve the problem, don't get paid.
Never confuse effort with results, you only pay for results.