I have a single Group 27 battery. I love to dry camp. I have a Honda eu1000i generator and a wfco (?) 55 power center.
which is the most efficient way to charge the battery - connect the battery directly to the battery or plug the trailer into the generator, or neither is better - they would both charge at the same rate?
You have a single group 27 Deep cycle rated at what 85 to 90 Amp hours. Half of that is 45 amps, that is useable. You'd be better off with a group 27 not getting it discharged much below 60% SOC. .4 x 90 amps would be 36 amps used. You'll get to 90% SOC with some efficiency with your Eu1000i, so replacing .3 x 90 should be your goal if weekending it, with a full top off recharge to 15V or more when you get back from camping.
So you are looking at replacing 27 amps, maybe 36 if you did a 50% SOC discharge cycle.
What I would do is buy the MegaWatt 30 amp model, it already comes with a cord and an on off switch, set the voltage on it at 14.8 or just a hair above that, 14.9V, with it fully disconnected from the battery, make a set of charging cables, and install an inline RC watt meter to the charging cables. Run the Honda until you are at a 7 or 8 amp rate of charge take rate to the battery, and then shut the generator off. Do this while camping.
Plug in your WFCO when you get home to the trailer, and let that run for 3 days at 13.8V to top charge the battery, then disconnect the battery for full time storage, and also disconnect the trailer and it's electrical to the WFCO. You should be fine.
Every camper should own a digital multi meter and a hand held amp meter, as well as a good high industrial grade hydrometer for battery maintenance purposes.
When your group 27 dies,strongly consider replacing it with a pair of GC-2 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series, if you do much dry camping off the grid, which it sounds like you do, if you already have the Honda EU1000i.
If the 30 amp supply actually does 40 amps.... yes the Honda 1000 will struggle and possibly overload in certain conditions.
True 30 amp limited such as IOTA should be good in all conditions.
mexicowanderer thinks it was the capacitors that needed charging up to capacity before hooking to the battery terminals, that caused the high reading. So maybe it's not as hard on the Eu1000i as I observed, if you change your procedure. I don't leave my MegaWatt attached to the battery when not in use.
Connect in parallel as show.
Top battery is "lead"
http://i.imgur.com/S4Rp2R1l.jpgMaybe I don't have my batteries hooked up correctly... I have the negative from the trailer going to one battery, and the positive from the trailer going to the second battery... of course neg to neg and pos to pos from one battery to the other.
Your batteries are hooked up correctly, and you should hook up the clamps from your solar panels at the exact same locations as the trailer terminals are hooked up on the batteries. Duplicate it and you will be fine. Positive red goes on one battery terminal of the first battery, and the negative black goes to the second battery and it's negative terminal.
I doubt even 16 volts from any 30 amp supply will overload the Honda 1000.
I can tell you that 10% ethanol at 7500 feet and 14.8V with that MegaWatt 30 amp alongside the Madison River in Montana on a 17F morning on 9-11-14 had the meanwell at first on a warm motor sucking 40 amps and in 15 seconds, it was down to 33 and in another 15 seconds it was down to 29 amps, and there was one heavily taxed and loud barking EU1000i pumping all the beans in the tank for 30 seconds before the throttle on Eco mode just barely subsided. I do not know the PFC correction for the Power supply unit, but that generator is rated 1000 watts at sea level. 7 x .036 = 25%, that's 25% loss due to elevation, if you corrected the jets for elevation. You can throw away another 5% easily with cr@ppy 10% methanol in your gas too. So now you are talking maybe 700 to 750 watts, peak, from losses camping high up and with cut fuel.
At start up, on a 60% SOC battery, it will pull 40 amps, probably at 13.1V at the battery, it will be 14.8 at the PSU. That's 600 watts. That's very close to the limit, where I was. I saw the red light flickering as the amps maxed, and dissappeared in about 7 or 8 seconds as the intial amps surge dropped off.
It's pretty close, a lot like a Iota 30 amp at 14.8V being hard on an Eu1000i under less than perfect conditions.
Buy a Megawatt 36'amp power supply for 65 dollars search eBay. Set it for 14.8 volts. Far and away faster than any other way.
Or buy it straight from John Marle by doing a search for "megawatt" on Google. He also makes a 30 amp version for a few bucks less, probably a better fit with that Honda EU1000i if you are charging at over 4 or 5000 feet in elevation. I have the 30 amp version and it runs the Eu1000i really hard when the motor is making less HP at higher elevations and with ethanol being 10% in your gasoline these days. That's a double whammy on power output from the generator.
Megawatt for sale, direct 30 and 36 amp models at bottom of page
I was one of the first to buy one of the 30 amp models here on RVnet/woodall's to run on an Eu1000i. Mexicowanderer is correct, nothing I've seen works faster. When it drops to a 10 to 12 amp rate of charge with this, it's gas saving, off with the generator time and let the solar panel top charge the slow part, the rest, again at 14.8V then floatV charge at 13.8V
you guys think its a safety "derating" tell the consumer to use 3xx max panels
and he can't possibly hit the controller limit
Okay could be ..
other controllers some costing more some about the same
are built with heat sinks and current limiting, and simply clip any over current and pass thru the rated limit..these controllers are truely what they say they are
i dont think a user should have to buy a 45amp controller to control 30amps worth of panels
or a 30amp controller to control 22amps worth of panels
just build it for what it is supposed to do and price it accordingly
I have a 150W solar panel 12v kind. It is rated lsc of 8.8 amps. My RC charge meter has recorded a peak amperage out of that panel of 9.3 amps, on a 65% SOC battery. I'd have no problem putting 2 panels together, but there is no way I'd run the two through my 20 Amp Charge controller that I also use, too close for comfort. I probably would run a pair of 140W panels through the same 20 amp charge controller and not worry of the blue smoke syndrome.
For $33 for a 30 amp charge controller, even if it's 24 amps, derated, go try and build and sell what you want... I am sure there are some high roller RV'ers that will buy bling to show off to their RV buddies. There will also be the low budget travel trailer and camper folks looking to charge cheaply with a value priced charge controller. Pick your price point, and market accordingly.
My thought process it that by the time the sun is at it's 10 AM position, where the panel can make max amps, your batteries are probably at the point where the amp charge rate is dropping off as the voltage increases, if you designed a balanced proper battery pack, solar panel and charge controller system that is properly designed and integrated. That, in essence, lets the marketing people able to cheat a bit on the ratings, most of the recharging is done when the panels aren't aimed directly at the sun, so the panels aren't maxing out until later in the day... at that point the charging rate of the batteries is lower, they are chemically reducing the amount of amps accepted at that point and state of charge.
Got it. However, to repeat, my PWM Solar30 only claims to be able to do 30 amps and has no panel wattage mentioned. It is up to you to not go over the 30 amps and the 48v Voc using whatever panel wattage you choose.
at least they seem to be making an honest statement and NOT putting a watt limit that keeps you from reaching the rating
this what we need to see more of
the input equals the output
or NO qualifier input that is lower than the stated output
is there a solar 40 ?
that prostar is nice..morningstar has quality controllers
I seem to recall seeing a time or two on Ebay or somewhere else, a Solar 60 model that was for sale, but my memory may be a little rusty.
Or split panels and wiring, do a little redundancy and parallel two solar 30's.
My take on it is that it will flow up to 30 amps, regardless of voltage, be it 28 or 30 for 24v system, or 17-19 for a 12V recharging system.
Watts are not mentioned, or I failed to acknowledge them. I guess it's a current limit, not so much a voltage limit, so they find watts a bit irrelevant or confusing.
Simple way that I see it, being a non EE type. Total up the lsc on your solar panels, and if the total is 80% or less of what the PWM Solar 30 or solar 60 charge controller is rated for, you should be fine under a worst case scenario. I would consider that a safe and adequate margin for design, at least for me. If the charge controller goes belly up, well, then, I've got some super duper good solar panels that were underrated... something highly unlikely to happen or come out of China these days. They'd sooner short you than give you more without charging you for it.
Looks like your only hope is to rent a car, send your alternator to Mex and get it done right. :W
I'd buy a new one. Always an option if you aren't a cheapskate, and you are willing to pay for what you get, or doing things half azzed like mex alluded to in the industry.
Maybe you should get a dentist down in Mexico too, down in Algondones. About 1/3 to 1/5 the price of dentists in Southern California
I see that the OP has a motorhome.
With motorhomes, one could go a LONG WAY with a blown alternator ... just hold or tape the boost switch closed and let the coach battery bank capacity add to the chassis battery capacity to keep the engine, headlights, etc. going. Or better still, start the coach's built-in generator, keep the boost switch closed, and then drive until either the fuel powering the generator, or engine, runs out.
The above is one "emergency feature" that TT and 5'er RVs can't match easily, or at all. :)
OP is referencing his 2001 Toyota Avalon, not his RV.
You made the choice to keep on driving instead of fix it then and there. Live with your decision, don't make someone else foot the bill for your mistake.
OK, there, Mr. High Horse. Thanks for chiming in. No Christmas Card for YOU this year.
The light had only came on briefly weeks ago and never came on again until I was out on a lonely highway, 30 minutes from civilization. I had googled the issue after the first, brief time and came up with about a dozen possibilities, including worn connections at the alternator. I jiggled that connection... per google... and since the light never came on again for weeks, I ASSumed I might have fixed it. With all the long running Toyotas I have had, the thought never occurred to me that a 130K, ND alternator could be on its way out. Lesson learned.
Is every "operator" supposed to be a qualified master mechanic?
Secondly, myself and my family have been loyal to the place (Bi-Mart) I bought the battery from since they broke ground in the early '70s. I literally walk through their doors about twice a week. If the battery dies, I will tell them what happened. Guaranteed they would still gladly warranty it for me... with a smile... wish me a good day... and see me again in a few more.
Has nothing to do with being a master mechanic. Read the Owners Manual in full, before operating.... otherwise known as "RTFM" in Engineering circles.
If you can read, or represent as an agent to sell, or witness signing a contract, as a Realtor, you have no excuse... the Owners Manual is in essence a contract for you, as the operator to abide by and follow. You didn't, you breached that contract. Ignorance is no excuse.
I can guarantee you, no pilot, if they saw a red light flash, would continue to operate and fly without getting it checked out immediately, or doing a turn around and looking to land right quick, with passengers aboard.
As a realtor, you haul potential clients and customers around, do you not? You do realize that makes you liable for their well being while in your vehicle, and that you saw the red light flash before,so there was a code stored in your OBD 2 memory, that can be read, as to what the problem was.
I'd say if you're asking where to put a dab of grease, or how much longer bearings might last if you replace the brushes, that's way beyond master mechanic grade, that's remanufacturing and refurbishing.
You knew what you were doing driving it down to 8.5V, because you checked to measure the voltage afterwards.
You either have bad batteries in your lap top.. ( is it over 2 or 3 years old and you use it unplugged and discharge the battery on it frequently) and need to replace them, or you are running a modified sine wave converter that disagrees with the transformer in your charger, or both are a problem.
Plug your laptop in at a cyber coffee shop and check the temp of the brick. If it's lower than in your RV, it's the modified sine wave inverter you are using. If it's the same temperature and still too hot, it's your battery on your laptop that needs replacing.
I think long term I am going to go with two small generators that can be paralleled. I would only need to use one during the winter. I could alternate them. The EU 3000 is just to heavy for one person to lift.
This is why I bought a pair of EU2000i's also. Use what you need, only when you need it. The pair of them will grunt a bit in eco mode when the AC starts but stay in eco mode when the AC is up and running.
Word of advice. Dont leave those Honda's operating on the ground, sitting on the dirt where all the dust blows. Elevate them off the desert floor about 2 or 3 feet to keep all the dirt and dust out of them and their filters, that's constantly blowing around near the ground in the desert.
I would never buy a used Honda Generator from anyone with a toy hauler as a result of this, and the gross neglect, and poor operating conditions they they are subjected to. Nor a contractor.
...8.5V on the battery, don't be surprised if you need a replacement battery soon too.
Yeah. I won't be. I was forced to drive it once since all of this too and charge when I got back home. Probably only 20 minutes-worth, total, during daylight hours, but she was still pretty thirsty when I got back.
So there's 2 deep cycles on a pure starting battery.
Fortunately it's less than a year old. Still has a full warranty.
My luck, though, it won't start to show signs of giving up the ghost until it gets into the pro-rated stage.
Driving it until your motor won't run with a failed alternator and the red light in the dash is operator error, not the batteries fault, or warranty issue. Pure operator error, don't be one of those unethical type of consumers. You made the choice to keep on driving instead of fix it then and there. Live with your decision, don't make someone else foot the bill for your mistake.
A red light in the dash means "Stop!" as in right now, and fix the problem, ASAP, don't keep on driving. You ignored that warning.
I rebrushed the alternator on my 1987 Toyota 4x4 extra cab for about $3.50 in parts and a soldering gun. It too was a Denso. Had 210,000 miles on it when I did it. Had over 320,000 on it when I later sold it. I never ran anything extra electrical on it. Just headlights, fan and A/C. Keep the ancillary stuff turned off as much as you can and the alternator will last a long, long time. Heated mirrors, heated seats, heated washers, all that cr*p kills alternators a lot quicker than necessary. Be frugal, when you can.
I miss that 1987 Toyota 4x4 xtra cab, I could fix almost anything on it that wore out or needed replacing.
Get a factory rebuilt, if you won't do it yourself. Of course if they see you driving an expensive car, they are going to try to milk you for an expensive part.
8.5V on the battery, don't be surprised if you need a replacement battery soon too.
Dad still has his original 2000 Toyota Avalon. 73,000 miles on it. People bug him all the time asking him if he wants to sell it.
It's actually 12' by the time you make the full run. Personally I would run 4/0 to keep the balance of the batteries as close as possible, otherwise your remote stack will never charge to the same level as the ORM location, nor will it share the same discharge load as the OEM. The only way to fix that is reduce the line loss between the two locations, especially since these are all new batteries.
But that's just me..
/\ This, when dealing with DC current, the line loss needs to be calculated for both positive and negative wire run lengths totalled together.