Gee, guys gotta move using his GM and a cornbinder, and what happens......
oh well, welcome back after 4 days marty........
Just the welcome back I needed.......
says the grandson of a former Ferd dealership owner!
Depends upon the state dot you are talking about. Federal level, all they care about is you get a min/max of 20K per axel, IF you have enough tire width to spread/bridge the load across the road, so you do not damage the load.
If you are licensed in Wa st, as I am, they do not give a rats rear end what the manufactures sticker says, You are licensed to the next highest ton by taking your tare wt time 1.5. So if you have a 4800 lb truck as I have, my sons also have a Toyota tacoma and K-1500 equal, mine being a C2500, 4800X 1.5 = 7200 lbs, ALL three of us have 8000 lbs plates. We are legal to that number. Manufacture GVWR and GAWR's mean squat, nada, nothing!
GCWR means nothing no where!
With this in mind, I can see where some jurisdictions where one does not have to pay tonnage with a pickup, unlike here, then a lower manufacture gvwr could be a good thing. BUT< if you have to buy tonnage, why do a lessor amount, if you can go higher, legally carry more etc. All three of the trucks I mentioned earlier, all have 10-10.5" tires, we get 500 lbs per inch width, so we could go as high as 20K per rig, 10K per axel......would that be smart? probably not, but it would be legal. I will also say this, and LEO will get either of the three of us OFF the road if we were anywhere close to 20K gvw. There is a sheet load of laws and rules they can get us off the road with, but damaging the road will not be the issue, ie DOT wt laws and how they are enforced.
Are we looking at this from a legal, or a rvnet wt police standpoint?
If a legal, you would have potentially upwards of 20K you can gross your truck at, not that I would recomend this. Going to axel limits is also not too much of an issue, ie over gvwr. Did that with my family of 6 on board two different trucks. Going over gcwr is nothing more than a warrenty issue, so over under, no big.
I was also over gcwr in my last truck by typically 4K lbs, but it did better performance wise than the previous truck with the correct gcwr.....In fact, I have had a few rigs with lower gcwr's than others, and did better pulling etc..... so gcwr in my boat any how, is nothing more than a warrenty/performance factor, where you do not know the performance specs, nor will you ever.
I personally will not tow more than 2x the grawr of the truck. For your rig, that would be 12-13K lbs, as long as I can stay under the axel wt ratings. Many on here thru the years have loaded there DA 2500's upwards of 16K of 5w, pulled great, but bottomed out the rear suspension in dips, going over speed bumps etc. I would suggest you stay at 5500 or less, other wise you will also bottom out at times.
Reality, there is only what you feel is best. Legally, an LEO can pull you over, and if they feel the need to, can sit you at the side of the road. Weight WILL NOT be one of them. This is from being pulled over, taking classes on what is and not legal for using pickups in commercial settings, which personal use has to, and gets the same rules and laws to follow.
That sticker can be misleading. Pretty easy for laypeople to not take account for everything already aboard, look at the sticker and think they have xxx capacity when it's partly used up by the people and accessories and whatever junk is always with them.
If you find the correct sticker, it is not misleading at all. It is correct per the way the truck was manufactured using std wts for ALL the options on that truck. So the overall payload is what ever that sticker says. ALL of my last trucks going back to 81 with stickers like this have been with in +/- 20 or so lbs of that gvwr less payload on sticker equals the base wt of the truck. The only reason it has been +/- 20 or so lbs, is that is what most scales go by in increments.
So yes, after that amount, one must take out for people, hitch wt, dogs, toys, food, etc that one loads into the truck. Generally speaking, if the door sticker says 3800 lbs of payload like the one in my 2000 C2500, when I weigh it, it weighs 4800 lbs, 4800 less 8600 is 3800 lbs of payload. My 05 was the same, but with about 4100 lbs of payload.
The year may depend upon the brand. My 2000 C2500 and an older Safari van from 01 both had payload stickers. As far back as my 1981, it had a camper load sticker, which is payload after deducting the 3 seat belts with people at 150 lbs ea. So that number plus 450 lbs was my total payload. Worked for my 88, 89, 96, 2000, 05.....also. The payload stickers of later years equal the camper load plus # os seatbelts at 150 lbs. This totals tare plus payload equal gvwr. This does NOT equal the tare plus payload equaling the axel wt totals. That can be from less than 5% for the safari. to over 10, close to 20% for my 05 dually!
THen again, some states, like Washington, DO NOT follow the manufactures numbers from a licensing stand point. You buy a truck plate in even 2000 lb increments at 150% of the tare/empty wt! Both of my sons have 15 series trucks, one a Tacoma, the other a GM 1500, BOTH have 8K plates on them, THEY are legal to 8K lbs. Not the 5600 or there abouts for the toyota, or the 6800 or there about for the GM 1500.
My 2000 C2500 I am driving now, has an 8K plate, I am NOT legal to the door sticker of 8600. This truck weighs all of 4800, so an 8K plate is minimum. My old 05 dually had a 14K plate, base was 7200 lbs. I needed a 12K minimum. I bought a 14 as I found myself weighing in at that amount coming out of scale houses.
The door sticker for my Navistar is 18200, which happens to be in my office, NOT on the door. As that truck was incomplete when I bought it. IT is up to the body manufacture to apply an appropriate door sticker per say. So if they add a drop, tag, different tires, rims, springs etc, they can up the frame/incomplete body manufacture numbers. MANY if not most Type A motor homes with tags came from the factory WITH OUT the tag, yet the door sticker includes the tag axel as part of the gvwr!
Take this all for what it is worth, but the door sticker means squat in MANY jursdictions, if not all if they follow the true wt law in the US, which happens to be the "Federal Bridge Laws" You get 20K per axel, as long as you have enough tire width to spread/bridge the load across the highway. If not, then you limit yourself to less than that.
But with this in mind, an LEO CAN and WILL get you off the road if you are unsafe. Being over a manufactures limit WILL NOT get you off the road......I've been pulled over at 27K+ lbs in my Navistar, I have yet to get an over wt ticket! As I am good to over 30K per the tire width and per axel amount. My 05 3500 dually, gets the same legal max wt. A typical sw pickup will be good to 20K lbs or so. Assuming you know how to push the rules. Not going to recommend one being at 20K gvw with a 1500, or a sw 3500 for that matter.......but it is legal!
Your in theory also has to assume that everything ELSE is equal, ie all them variables you are talking about, otherwise, it is not as close to equal to equal test as one should compare this types of things. Take a rig with say 28" tires with the 3.09, and compare it to a 3.45 with 30" tires, and you will have pretty much the same shift points at the same speeds etc. Now what will happen, is in reality, potentially the 3.09 will be a bit faster than the 3.45, as those 30" wheels and tires are bigger, heavier, take up more drivetrain HP, so will be a bit slower. Probably not a lot to worry about, but none the less, slower due to the taller diam tires.
Many ways to change out the how a given rig may do vs another one.
That TC would probably be about 4K the way I load things. So about 4500 abouve base wt of 4800 lbs, so just a bit over 9K lbs or there abouts.....no issues!!!
You forgot those folks with 4 kids, all under the age of say 6 or 7 that might weigh what 200-300 lbs between them, and forget or seem to not care that them whipper snappers grow at about 10 lbs per kid per year.........Or they believe the folks that happen to be nothing more than a couple! oh you will only load some 800-1000 lbs into said RV.......hmmmmmmm...... I was closer to 3000 lbs of gear, and 1200-1300 for my said family of 6 when I had 4 adult sized teens......
Crew cab or reg cab? I'd put that trailer behind a reg cab, but not a crew cab. Crew cabs have half the payload a reg cab has. In fact, my C2500 reg can is 300 lbs shy of the payload my 05 crew cab dually had and double the 96 sw K3500!
Always wondered if folks ever ride bicycles with gears and ride in hilly terrain...
Toss in a kid trailer bike (one wheel, front clamps onto your bike) or
tow a kid/cargo trailer?
Not a kid cart, but a paper cart! went slower up the hill in a lower overall gear! Lower gears only help a larger load get going faster. Top speed is dependent upon HP, Torque is what gets you going, which can be multiplied by gearing.
A rig with 400 lb ft of torque with an overal low of 24-1 with 31" tires will pull 20K lbs up a 30% grade, same motor with 16-1, will do about half that amount! This is from both experience, and cranking numbers in some formula's I have. Top speed is based on HP doing the same thing.
Axle ratio should be choosen based on tire diam, what kind of trans you have, and the rpm of the motor, in such a manner you can get the bets speed, pulling power or equal in a given gear.
Reminds me of a sticker on the top of a crapper(not sure if it was a true crapper brand....but) the other day. It said, "If you have a short bat, step closer to the plate"
So with that, Yes a rig with more hp and the same torque with proper gearing will tow faster than the same rig with a less HP, same torque motor. The how much is another story. My 96 K3500 with a 185/385 diesel with 5 gears, generally speaking was a bit slower, but at times did better than the 235/385 tbi 454 in my 88 K3500 with a 3 sp auto. The kicker was if I could keep which in its power band. The 96 with 5 gears for the most part did better, as it was better setup gear wise. BUT, if on a 3-4% grade in the gear below direct for both, which was about equal in reduction for both, the 454 would out pull the diesel by a few MPH, talking maybe 5mph at 15K lbs.
So with that....... take this to the top sticky.
See the few hundred some odd posts in above stuck gas vs diesel thread........
There is NO best engine. Both have issues, both have positives, it come down to how you use the truck, miles driven, roi on extra initial costs of diesel....... the right or wrong for rv users in you pocket book and the ear to ear arc you want to have etc. If you were biz users, again all bets are off.....but some again, if low miles driven, gas, high miles, diesel.
That sounds like the ave for a lower end rebuild for that service useage. The IHC T444E is also supposed to go about that many miles etc in the same useage.
Not sure I have truly worn out a motor per say, but have had to replace a few in the mid 100K mile range. most I would say were something more in the line of a major bang vs just wearing out. Altho my IDI7.3 at 140K miles is acting like it is worn out. Then again IHC called them a 100K throw away motor! You had to go to the I6 to get motors that would last in the 400K-1M mile range. or some of the more recent V8 designs after and including the T444E.
Lets see, 16K of trailer, 25% HW wil be 4000 lbs, if at 30% close to 5000 lbs. What rig will handle this amount of payload/hw along with a hitch, 2-4 people, etc.....which cab style, shall we go on and on and on?!?!?
If a crew cab, from a payload stand point, I would be looking at nothing less than a DOT class 6 series truck. If a reg cab, I could probably get a 35 series truck to work in some single wheel versions, dually no issues. so which sized truck do you want?
As noted, there probably is not a bad truck in the batch, only it personality that will fit you!
Like a lot of things, if you want the first to the finish, top of mtn.......but the seats do not fit you, buy that one. If you want the one the seats fits you, but is not that much slower, do these differences in times matter? Compared to the day one got a 250I6 with maybe 125HP, and 200 lbs of torque, a 3 in the tree emanual tranny.......I have to say, EITHER of those trucks performance specs look great! Some of the V6's are putting out what was BB power in the later 70's to early 80s. Along with trannies that have double and triple the gears, better mpgs, by double all around.....better more comfortable seats.......
Anything to not like about the new trucks?
I would not want a v6 full size truck. To me that is like putting a 4 cylinder in a corvette.
Some of todays 4 bangers are probably putting out more power than the original V8 in the vet back in the 50's frankly. Could probably get it moving faster too!
I would not have an issue with todays V6 in a full size truck, be it a 1500, or a 3500, IF I was to use that 3500 as strictly a gvwr only rig, and not towing what the chassis is capable of. This also is an issue with folks say on this forum. Yeah all of us tow. so a bigger badder motor is needed. Some like myself, choose rigs like a tool, what is its end use age. If a V6 will do the job, why buy a lower mpg motor? other than one likes the seat of the pants power one gets from a larger motor?!?!???