That van probably had a gcwr of around 16K when new. Max HP about 250'ish, maybe a few more hp. Torque mid to high 300lb ft, at best 400 or a hair over.
With this in mind, as I recall, it was rated to around 10K ball mount, then again, that is about the max for any given 2" receiver at the time! A pickup was upwards of 12K in 5w form.
With that in mind......I would say your performance was on par with what I had with BB GM's at the time.
Manuals no stall outs.
New 6 so has a 4.10-1 first gear. Vs 3.1 in almighty Allison, and 2.48 in POJ4m80/th400 derivatives.
The lowest 1st gear I could find in current manual transmissions is the 6 speed Ram uses.
It has a 1 st gear ratio of 6.34. You stated the GM 6 speed auto has a 4.1. The 6l80 is actually a 4.027 first gear. Couple that with the 2 to 1 ratio of a torque converter the equalivant 8.05 ratio will out pull the Ram manual 6.34 at standstill.
Thus the manual will stall on a much smaller hill than today's automatics.
Even the Allison will do better at a 6.2 equalivant ratio as there will be no clutches to burn out in the attempt.
I would agree with this, other than I have been taught told to deduct 20% from those figures for slippage and heat. So the allison is really aroud 5-1, and the diesel gets a 1.8 TC not a 2-1 as the gas got. At least that is my memory......not that it is worth much today.
I was recalling the gm auto at 4.1, did not know it was the 4.027, I would take this trans over an allison.
the comments re transmissions experience, are from the last 30 yrs of driving vehicles. The manuals back in the day were better than the autos. th400 1st is 2.48, so 5 or 4-1 equal with slippage, vs a muncie iirc in the 6.8 range. Not that it should count, my mdt has a 10.08 first.
Spokane Wa is the #1 sales for new subies, 1 in just under 9 people own a subie! Here in Seattle, we are #2 in nation, with just over 1 in 9 owning one. My son and SO own one, eldest daughter just bought one yesterday.
Would like to talk wife into one instead of the MB ML she has.....
30degrees is around 60%.
My point is, that some roads can be steeper than freeway grades. I have stalled out many rigs on the local steep grades. Blown up a few transmissions in the past too, all due to incorrect overall low gearing. My old 96 6.5 had a higher stall point than my double the HP/torque dmax. BECAUSE the 6.5 had a better gearing ratio to multiply the torque, so it could pull 20K up a 30%, vs the dmax at 24% at 20K. Yeah the dmax did 55 up a typical 3-5% freeway grade, the 6.5 was doing 40'ish. Differences yes, but one might get to a job/camping site, the other will get to with in a block or mile or two, 20-30 min before the other, but the one with the correct setup for the job, gets to the site you are going to, be it a job site, or camping site.
The newer rigs with the 6 sp transmissions as mentioned, with slightly less hp torque than older motors, may be the better option for the reasons I am stating.
The 6 speed transmission has made the difference between rear gear ratios less important. Pick the gear that best fits what the truck will be used for most. If most miles are unloaded or towing miles on relativity flat ground the 3.73 will be ideal.
If you get in a position that you can not get going in first gear and have a 4x4 it is simple. Select low range and you will tear the tires off of the wheels before you run out of enough torque to get moving.
Totally agree. In fact, you may find that 4th gear with the 3.73 gives a better cruising speed than 5th with the 4.10 ratio. I built a lot of roads and none even approached being at a 30% grade. Some may have seemed like they did.
You have not been up Queen Anne ave on the north side in seattle, that is 24.5%....I measured it! had a client with a 33% driveway. Built a set of 6rise, 18" run steps alongside the drive way.....Steep grades are out there!
A 18wheel moving van went from Louisiana as the driver comment one time, 60 up here to seattle, got to with half a mile of home, stalled out on a upper teen low 20% grade, Could not get to the home. Had to call in smaller trucks to unload, so he could lose enough weight to get up the hill to the home.
Freeway grades are not an issue, only in that do you have enough hp to pull them at a speed you want to go. As long as you are moving, you have the hp to move. Stop on hill, that is torque time overall low ratio. 4lo helps at times.....but if it has switch backs, you may blow up a drive train depending upon how long it is. There are plenty of roads here in the lower puget sound region that have signs at top or bottom saying grades in the 15-20% range.
The new tow spec has a min starting grade of 12%` 150% of the steepest interstate freeway max grade. Issues will be on forest service roads, local city roads, where I have been on grades into lo to mid 30% range. Yeah maybe only a few hundred yards.....but if you stall out and you LOW overall gearing is too tall. You do not move forward. Been there did that done that lots of times with older 3 so autos. Manuals no stall outs.
New 6 so has a 4.10-1 first gear. Vs 3.1 in almighty Allison, and 2.48 in POJ4m80/th400 derivatives.
If in Rockies or above 5-6000' ALOT, Then reality is, skip the gaz twucks, and go straight to a turbo motor of some sort, be it gas or diesel. You lose 2-3% of your HP per 1000' of elevation, so in the 6-10K range, you are down as little as 12% to as much as 30%. WIth a forced induction motor, ie turbo or equal, you do not lose HP until around 10K', then from there on up, you start to lose HP also at 2-3% per 1000'.
Just my 02. BUT with this in mind, there are many tests comparing a 6.0 to an 8.1 and even the dmax. the 6.0 when used correctly, will pull just find. BUT, as noted, get the 6 sp auto and 4.10s, not that there are any, a 4.33 would be better yet!
Depending upon gears, max will be about 7500 lbs if you have 3.73 gear. Reality, more due to the fact that has a tbi350, it had 195 hp or there about. Along with chassis rating, try to stay.under 6000 total max lbs.
Issue for the OP is not power, but the trans itself. It is geared better than the 4l80 derivatives, but still, compared to the newer closer ratios of the 6 spds, That alone makes for a better towing time.
The new tow ratings do include a frontal area max, IIRC 60 sqft for smaller rigs, and 80 for full size pickups.
From my own experience towing, I used to get better mpgs at 18K pulling my bobcat than I did towing my TT at 15K lbs. WHY? took 105Hp at 15K and 70sqft of FA
Surprised no one mentioned gcwr. Not on the door sticker but in the OP example becomes very important.
gcwr is NOT a legal number, no more legal than door sticker. For the most part, only a warranty number, along with a performance number. IE how fast up a freeway grade in what gear, how steep an overall before literally stalling out in first gear. Stopping and holding with Ebrake are factors, but again, still a performance factor. Put larger brakes on TV or trailer, and you stop quicker, hold on a steep grade etc.
I've had rigs with lower gcwr's than another, only to have the lower rated one, go up a 20+% grade, come down and litterally pull the other one up the grade UNDER its gcwt! over double the gcwt of the one making it. The one not is under gcwr by 25%. Since that time around 1990, I do not trust gcwr figures to say a given rig will do what I need it do.
Reality is, ratings have some science to them, along with how much warrenty the manufacture wants to get consumed by. There are items out there with one time uses.....Others have multiple uses. A one time use item is usually smaller, will break or bend easier than a multiple use item.....
Hence why Ben probably uses the "do you believe or not" comment a lot! Or items have multiple ratings. Chain for example, a lift rating, or pull rating. Pull is many times 2-3 times the amount of the lift. My bobcat for example, the lift rating is half of the tip load, ie where the back wheels lift off the ground. I can push more than tip load, which I do with pallet forks at times. Full well knowing I can not lift the load per say. Safe?!?!? I'll let you decide.
Legal, as noted by someone in Virginia... he has 8K paid for registration, that is what he is legal to. 7200 lbs gvwr door sticker be danged. Washington where I am, is very very similar. My C2500 has an 8K paid for registration, as does my sons toyota tacoma, and other sons K1500 reg cab pickup. Door stickers of 6200-700o or soo be danged for sons rigs. My 8600 also be danged. If pulled over between 8001 and 8600, I am illegal thank you very much.
My IHC mdt dumptruck, has a door sticker of 18200, sits inside my owners manual on office book shelf. I have a paid for license of 26K. Been thru state weigh scales upwards of mid 25K, never been ticketed for being over weight. Even got pulled over at 27xxx lbs.....no ticket, a 10 day warning to up paid for license to 28K. As I was under the max axel load for tire width so I was not over the road bed engineer ratings. THAT is what the LEO/CVEO is supposed to ticket you on, assuming you have enough paid for registration.
As one CVEO told me in a class I took about what I have to register my trucks for. I could license a Toyota tacoma or equal for 100K lbs, drive 100 miles down the road, truck is destroyed, haul it to junk yard, nothing they can do IF I follow ALL other laws from braking to min speeds etc. This would be in this instance, a one time 100 mile use tool! Many of you may not agree, but it is what it is!
Reality is, how long do you want something to last, before breaking etc.
Rig in question of OP's, probably could be legal rated paid for to around 20K gvw. Issue will be, if it can stop in 25' or so from 15 or 20 mph, or what ever spec and LEO uses in the field to see if your brakes function or not. Pass field test, your legal. Fail.... well, you get a ticket, vehicle does not move on road until you pass test, or haul it to shop on a vehicle that can carry the load legally etc.
Also, from a changing door sticker gvwr etc. Usually easier to do if you started with a cab and chassis model, put the bed on aftermarket. A pickup while it can be done, it was assembled at the factory complete, and most aftermarket body manufactures etc will not put there insurance on the line for these additions. There are a few that will, but many will not. Kind of like the two places that put aftermarket front drive units on Vans, they will usually only do NEW unregistered vans, not used ones.
Good luck on what you are doing.
What is a "CUMMINGS" motor? are we talking some sort of PORN here?!?!?! not on a family forum please.....CUMMINS I have heard of, good motor......
RPM and speed is about what I would have expected frankly with your now soon to be old setup. That motor in a 24 series would do the same speed wise. But the pushing on suspension etc would be less.
Trailer brakes may or may not need adjusting. They should not be squishy. May need to be tightened. Then what are you calling steep grade too? 3-5% on an interstate is not steep IMHO. 15-20% in a forest service campground is STEEP! OR a city road etc.
I would bet the front is 5000, rear is 6000-6800 or so from a rating standpoint.
Empty is probably around 7-8000 lbs.
That high top is nothing to really worry about. I've seen some that are another 1-2' taller yet!
Pulling power is NOT the issue with that motor. It is PAYLOAD!!! that has nothing to do with the will or will it not pull what you want to pull. IT WILL pull whatever you want! Will the van have the suspension etc to do what you want is another issue. More than likely it does. but weigh it at a local scale, be it having independent axel weight ability or not. Even ones without independent pads for axels, you can get close by looking at scale with just the front or rear on the big pad, then subtract from total to get close enough to know if it will work or not.
As noted, look at door sticker to figure out max gvwr or gawr's, ie grawr and gfawr. Make sure you will not be over the latter two for sure. Or close to rear. Try to stay at least 10-15% below the max. If for example the rear is rated to 6000 lbs, try to stay 5400 or lower on that axel. The front is frankly, not as important. I've generally speaking for vans and pickups, find them to be 200-400 lbs below max, no matter how I am loaded. But a rear with a rating of 6000, as little as 2200 empty to 5500 or so loaded, is not an issue.
So yes, load up with kids, spouse, see what the van weighs. Reduce this from max gvwr you then have the max trailer hitch wt you can load up to, Divide that number by HW% you will have, you now have max total trailer wt.
van with peops etc, is 8000 lbs. GVWR is 9000, you have 1000 lbs for HW. HW divided by .1(10%) is 10,000 lbs of max trailer. 1000/ .15(15%) max is 6667 lbs of trailer. supposid std of 12.5% is 8000 lbs of trailer.
Simple math for the most part, just knowing what numbers to apply where in the calculations.
Note, ALL my numbers are examples, not what I would expect the van to weigh or not.
Only issue with conversions, is due to AlL the bells and whistles included, you may not have any payload for the trailer you "could" tow based on the motor and axel and trans. Then add a few people, you may or may not be at max gvwr before adding the hitch wt of a trailer. This is really true when it comes to the 15 and 25 series vans. The 35, hard to say frankly, again, depending upon the bells and whistles added.
Otherwise, I doubt you would have any issues with it, depending upon the top design. I drive an MB van daily with the factory high top, I'm 9.5' tall, really do not have any more or less wind issues than shorter vans or rigs built like it.
I would try to get an empty wt of the van before buying it tho, just to verify the payload, and if you have the "1000" lbs for the HW if that is what the trailer you are looking for will have, or whatever the total is, be it 500 or 1500 for that matter.
I was realizing the other day fuel was a bit below $3 a gal, then we were hit with an additional .10 fuel tax.....so fuel was above $3 for a week or so, now a bit below. Do not recall last time I saw it below $2.......Before 2000 or there abouts.....or earlier yet......
Know the feeling and issue. Was doing the D when I started muderating this forum.......
Sorry Marty, but I got a good chuckle out of that!
If one can not laugh at there own situation, or equal.....life is done with.
Now to go back to that buttload of vino I was drinking.....ie 126 gal drum of vino! true measure back in the day many moons ago mind you!
Thanks Marty for letting this thread go. If you close it I won't be offended. I appreciate all the positive thoughts and prayers.
I will get back to RVing someday.
I have Marty occupied, I told him there was a Sasquatch sighting in the Cascade Range. He will be busy for a while. :B
Only ONE sasquatch! There is blinken family up near Image Lake by Glacier peak! Not to mention the other family I met climbing Rainer! Where the heck have you been Cummins?!?!?!?!?!?
Know the feeling and issue. Was doing the D when I started muderating this forum.......now look at me, still broke, kids are out of college, 2008/1929 crash broke me worst than the D did......
I'm still here, just with a different RV......
Need to head to be, long day at work tomorrow....