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 > Your search for posts made by '4x4ord' found 332 matches.

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  Subject Author Date Posted Forum
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

To the earlier post if any truck says made in china it won't be sitting in my garage. Bad enough to see parts and tires with that listed on them. But it is our fault this is happening. chevman Delete
4x4ord 08/21/14 11:37am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

Isn't it apples to apples? Using 3.73 or 4.10 in all would've delivered the same results. IMO they should all have the same rear gears and tranny gearing, that way you would really see which truck puts the power to the ground the best. But in the end it's really all about what they can tow. And that's where GM falls short in the HD segment and probably why they lack in 1 ton sales. It's a great light duty tow truck but when you really need to haul the big stuff you gotta go Ford or Ram. There really is no absolute apples to apples because the transmission ratios are all different, but having all run 3.73 gears certainly makes sense in this case. If, however, the trailers had been much heavier it would have made perfect sense to run the gear ratio that the manufacturer recommends for that particular weight. If you want to compare trucks you compare what each manufacturer has to offer for your application. If Ram suggests that a 4.10 rear end is better for a heavier trailer than a 3.73 and Chevy says "we just offer a 3.73" then comparing the 4.10 to the 3.73 makes perfect sense for that heavier trailer application.
4x4ord 08/21/14 11:16am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

Typo on power, should have said torque. Next time dyno your car in 2nd or 3rd gear and then 1 to 1 and see which makes more "power" then come back here and tell all of us of your results. Read post #10 if you want to know the story without doing anything. Finding a dyno that allows for full power in 2nd or 3rd is very difficult, even the loaded dyno's don't generally have enough load. This is why higher gears make more power, especially on turbo motors. I am well aware of how it works, but nonetheless your link doesn't work. My point being of all of this is: In the old days of 3 speed autos and 4 speed manuals with 200 HP at the rear wheels it made a BIG difference in the rear gear we chose. Now days with 6 speeds+ and huge HP, rear end gear picking is almost out of the equation. It still makes a difference, look at tow ratings in 3.42 vs 4.10. Anyway you cut it gear for gear there is more available rear wheel torque with lower gearing. Yes more gears will help, i.e. 9812V and his 3.42's, but he is also going with 4.10's on his next truck. Most older 4 speed manuals did not have an OD, so 1-4 where similar to 1-4 on a modern 6 speed diesel. 3 speed auto's also didn't have OD, but the 1 extra gear between 1 and direct is great for towing. Low speed is where the lower gearing really shines, the added wheel torque does get the load moving easier. In these tests from a stop that would have improved any of the trucks times, and one reason the Ford did so well (lowest overall gearing). Ram's 0-60 and 1/4 mile times would certainly have been noticeably better with 4.10's over 3.73's. It's hard to say that it would be negligible. These trucks are not designed for drag racing. 4.10 rear gears would put more torque to the rear axle but if the tires lack the traction to turn that into acceleration it's not going to buy you anything anyway. Chevy understands how different rear end ratio's are not all that important anymore, now that we have 6 speed transmissions. So, they save their customers all the confusion. Ford decides for you with their F450 and F350 dually. The idea is this: You are towing your trailer down the highway at 60 mph and hit a hill; say the hill is that steep that your engine only has enough power to pull it at 50 mph. The truck will slow down. If at 50 mph your engine can run at the rpm where it makes peak HP you had the perfect gears for that hill. Next hill maybe a little different gear ratio would have been better.
4x4ord 08/21/14 10:10am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

I just read over the scoring sheet a little closer and have to admit there is some stuff that make the results a little off in my mind. For example the Ford was on top the Davis Dam run almost a minute ahead of the Chevy and 1.25 minutes ahead of the Ram. That's like a mile in front and it gained only 10 points?? Then on the subjective scoring Aaron Bragman was very biased toward the Ram. These trucks are not that different ... 65 points for overall value for the Ford and 80 for the more expensive Ram .... give me a break ... I can see him not liking the Ford but for less money you definitely get a little more with Ford ... things like incredible tow mirrors that are both power extend and power fold; genuine leather seats vs synthetic leather in the supplied Ram; a more refined quieter engine :); keypad entry system. I would throw out Aaron's scores and call the results very close but a little less biased: GMC...2827 Ford...2766 Ram...2706 My Longhorn Ram doesn't have "synthetic leather":h..I KNOW the Laramie Limited doesn't have "synthetic leather" and Mine is genuine leather....the rest I don't really care about:) Hey give it to the Ford...I picked them to win any way, and had Chevy in 2nd....Ram was last...no matter how they finished.... The leather in our Longhorns is what you would find in the top of the line luxury cars. Now the Laramie that's a different story. Nope. My Laramie has real leather. Sorry, I mistakenly thought they tested a Ram Laramie rather than the the Laramie Limited. It could very well be that the Laramie Limited uses genuine leather....it sure is a nice interior. I think whether you're talking Ford, GMC, Ram, Mercedes, or Jaguar most leather interiors use synthetic leather. Some put a scrap of genuine leather in the center of the seat cushion so they can advertise genuine leather seats. For many uses synthetic leather might make sense.
4x4ord 08/21/14 09:19am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

If they had raced a 3.73 Ram against a 4.10 Ram, the 4.10 would not necessarily do any better in any one particular test but could possibly have done better or worse in some of the hill climbs. Look at it this way: the Cummins is capable of delivering a certain maximum amount of horsepower to the rear wheels. Let's say that number is 300 ponies. Now some of that power will be used to overcome rolling resistance and drag so let's guess that at 50 mph there is 220 HP available to pull a loaded trailer up a hill. By definition 220 horsepower is enough power to lift 121000 lbs 1 foot in 1 second. Now consider a particular hill: say one with a 7% grade: at 50 mph the truck and trailer are gaining elevation at the rate of 5 ft per second. If my assumptions of available rear wheel power are right the Cummins could pull a 24,200 lb truck and trailer combination up a 7% grade at 50 mph (121,000 lbs divded by 5 equals 24,200 lbs). In order to achieve that maximum speed of 50 mph the transmission and rear end need to have a ratio that will allow the engine to run at the rpm it makes maximum power while spinning the rear 50 mph. If the rear end is geared too low the truck will upshift and the rpm will drop to where the engine makes fewer ponies and the truck will slow down. Now choose a different hill or different weight and the perfect gear ratio is something different. This why the Ford was able to leave the Ram and Chevy in the dust on the Davis hill but was very close on the Eisenhower. It got stuck between gears where it couldn't make its 440 HP.
4x4ord 08/21/14 07:55am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

I can see him not liking the Ford but for less money you definitely get a little more with Ford ... things like incredible tow mirrors that are both power extend and power fold; genuine leather seats vs synthetic leather in the supplied Ram; a more refined quieter engine :); keypad entry system. You can nitpick features from the perspective of any of these trucks, though. Ram Guy: For example when comparing the Ram to the Ford, you definitely get a little more with Ram...things like a coil rear suspension that doesn't sag and rides better on washboard roads, more soft touch materials in the interior, an engine with a proven simple design and a much stiffer redesigned frame. GM Guy: For example when comparing the GM to the Ford, you definitely get a little more with the GM...things like the best mileage in the test with a load, a more refined all new interior with nicer materials and an 8" nav screen, and a smoother ride on many surfaces. You already did Ford Guy, so I won't do that one again. See, anybody can do it. You don't even have to be very creative. Except that things like mileage and ride quality have already been scored in stand alone categories.
4x4ord 08/20/14 05:22pm Tow Vehicles
RE: All revved up with no place to go

Thanks for the pep talk. We are going to go.
4x4ord 08/20/14 04:21pm Roads and Routes
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

I just read over the scoring sheet a little closer and have to admit there is some stuff that make the results a little off in my mind. For example the Ford was on top the Davis Dam run almost a minute ahead of the Chevy and 1.25 minutes ahead of the Ram. That's like a mile in front and it gained only 10 points?? Then on the subjective scoring Aaron Bragman was very biased toward the Ram. These trucks are not that different ... 65 points for overall value for the Ford and 80 for the more expensive Ram .... give me a break ... I can see him not liking the Ford but for less money you definitely get a little more with Ford ... things like incredible tow mirrors that are both power extend and power fold; genuine leather seats vs synthetic leather in the supplied Ram; a more refined quieter engine :); keypad entry system. I would throw out Aaron's scores and call the results very close but a little less biased: GMC...2827 Ford...2766 Ram...2706
4x4ord 08/20/14 03:56pm Tow Vehicles
All revved up with no place to go

We have hardly had a chance to get out camping this year (1 weekend in June) but finally we got things done and have a few days we could go. The truck is hooked up, trailer is packed and they are calling for cloudy and rainy weather with highs of about 55 degrees for the next 5 days. We could drive 400 miles to find some sun .... spend day one to find the sun and day 5 to get back home ... I don't know I guess there's always next year.
4x4ord 08/20/14 10:43am Roads and Routes
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

In my case, I currently haul 2 tons of camper and have half a ton of hitch weight on an extension with my F250. Loaded, I am at 6 tons and towing 4 tons behind me. It does this surprising well, but we plan to go to a bigger truck camper that will approach 3 tons and requires twice the hitch extension length I now run. When I ran the numbers I was getting close to the 16K lb GVWR of Class 4 chassis cabs. The excess capacity of 19k lb GVWR Class 5's can used to haul a large battery bank or extra water while staying within all of the weight police real or imaged ratings. Skim over some of the thread in the TC section to get an idea of typical weights we carry. The GVWR is almost always over while the GCWR is usually still within published ratings. The bad thing about your situation is that you need heavy springs for your carrying capacity but along with those heavy springs comes a low speed axle ratio which you might be happier without. I see how in order to stay within all your ratings you need that class 5 truck, otherwise you probably would be real happy with a 3500 GMC with a little heavier spring under it.
4x4ord 08/20/14 07:43am Tow Vehicles
RE: Depressing Depreciation

I buy new. I buy what I want and if possible try to factory order, so I get what I want, not just what's there. I pay cash, unless there's a good deal, like 0 % interest over a good number of years. I think carefully what exactly I want, in a vehicle....as I plan to have them for a long time. No impulse buying. I buy extended warranties. I rust proof with Ziebart. I maintain by the book. I drive my vehicles for years. One vehicle for 21 years, another for 14, another for 10 years. I usually have anywhere from 2-3 vehicles in my parking lot / garage at any one time. When I'm finished with them, I feel I've got my money out of them. I don't worry about depreciation as the way I do things, it's not much of a factor. Sounds similar to the Dave Ramsey school of thought. I will not say that is the wrong school, but I will say that VERY few people follow that. If I followed Dave Ramsey's advice I wouldn't have been able to retire at 56........ If anybody wants an explanation you can PM me. I actually can't see there being a whole lot of difference in cost of ownership one way vs another. Even if you bought 3 new vehicles every year vs keeping them for 20 years I'll bet the difference in the amount of money you have in the bank, at the end of 30 years would be less than $150,000.
4x4ord 08/19/14 11:41pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Depressing Depreciation

I buy new. I buy what I want and if possible try to factory order, so I get what I want, not just what's there. I pay cash, unless there's a good deal, like 0 % interest over a good number of years. I think carefully what exactly I want, in a vehicle....as I plan to have them for a long time. No impulse buying. I buy extended warranties. I rust proof with Ziebart. I maintain by the book. I drive my vehicles for years. One vehicle for 21 years, another for 14, another for 10 years. I usually have anywhere from 2-3 vehicles in my parking lot / garage at any one time. When I'm finished with them, I feel I've got my money out of them. I don't worry about depreciation as the way I do things, it's not much of a factor. Spoken like a wise man... Heck we retired an old 89 Ford diesel two years ago. Looked like a pile of cr@p so we decided the image of this old truck wasn't in our best interest so it was finally retired to back up duty since it wasn't worth anything so we kept it. Sometimes driving a heap vs new might not be saving you anything. Consider a guy driving an old heap who spends $300 per month on fuel and $200/month on repairs, He is worse off then the guy driving new who spends $300/month on lease payments and $200/month on fuel.
4x4ord 08/19/14 11:02pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Depressing Depreciation

I buy new. I buy what I want and if possible try to factory order, so I get what I want, not just what's there. I pay cash, unless there's a good deal, like 0 % interest over a good number of years. I think carefully what exactly I want, in a vehicle....as I plan to have them for a long time. No impulse buying. I buy extended warranties. I rust proof with Ziebart. I maintain by the book. I drive my vehicles for years. One vehicle for 21 years, another for 14, another for 10 years. I usually have anywhere from 2-3 vehicles in my parking lot / garage at any one time. When I'm finished with them, I feel I've got my money out of them. I don't worry about depreciation as the way I do things, it's not much of a factor. It has not really been something that I think about but I just realized that in my life I have purchased about 14 personal vehicles and none of them have been new. My pick up trucks have been purchased through my business and I have owned about 14 of them as well with only 2 that were purchased new. I do, however, pay cash for most stuff.
4x4ord 08/19/14 07:00pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

So we all agree that the three are now pretty close to equal. It took GM and Ram 15 years to get their truck to a level that is able to compete with what Ford basically brought out almost 10 years ago and it took Ford and Ram nearly 15 years to come up with an engine and transmission that would compete with the Duramax/Allison. I feel that when Ford released the 5R110 and 6R140 transmissions, they had a solid offering that can compete with the Allison and Aisin - You don't hear about problems that used to show up in the 4R100. Ford had trouble with some of their engines, which really hurt their reputation. Evidently, I found a competent dealer that was able to warranty the work he did on mine. Not only did they fix it right the first time, but they jumped on the work quickly knowing we were heading out on a long trip fully loaded in few days. When I was truck shopping last time, I felt the GM was under sprung for the tasks I required but at the same time was impressed with its ride comfort and quietness. I wish they still made a Class 5 I could compare to the competition this time around. I have to wonder if you still require a class 5? I think the new one tons are truck enough for almost any RV.
4x4ord 08/19/14 01:35pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

Personally... I think this discussion proves what we all already know. Most people, with a few exceptions, drive what they like. The only Ford I've ever owned was an old Econoline van. Ford's are just not my thing. I don't like the way the new trucks look and their noisier than they have to be. I had a 94' 1500 Dodge Ram. Bought it because (1) the GM dealer PO'ed me the day I went to buy a new truck and I liked the new Dodge body style. But it had a HUGE blind spot on the passenger side windshield post, it never rode as good as my GM trucks, and the transmission went out of it at less than 10k miles. On the new ones, the tow mirrors coming at you remind me of Bullwinkle moose. And Rams are also noisier than they have to be. Other than those things, I wouldn't be afraid to hook up with anyone of them and do what this test did. Performance wise, there's not a nickel's difference between the three. The rest of it, IMHO, is brand loyalty and personal preference. If you have actually came close to a new Ford that was running you likely assumed it was shut off. They are extremely quiet. While both cruising and under full acceleration the Ford interior is quieter than a Lexus sedan. I've never been in the cab of a new Dodge or Ford, so I don't know what they're like inside. But I don't always drive with my windows rolled up and when I set next to either one at a stop light I can't hear my Duramax running over them. And if you're standing behind my Duramax, the only way you know it's running is the heat coming from the exhaust. Again..it's a Preference thing, and maybe a perception thing. I read in another thread where someone said the Ram is the only truck left that sounds like a truck. But as far as performance, I don't think there's a nickel's difference between any of them. Your likely pulling along side older trucks. The Duramax is quiet, it might even be a little quieter than the new Cummins but when I pull the Ford up along side my brothers Duramax so we can talk through the windows I am only half joking when I tell him to "shut that rattle can off so we can hear each other." :)
4x4ord 08/19/14 01:27pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

So we all agree that the three are now pretty close to equal. It took GM and Ram 15 years to get their truck to a level that is able to compete with what Ford basically brought out almost 10 years ago and it took Ford and Ram nearly 15 years to come up with an engine and transmission that would compete with the Duramax/Allison.
4x4ord 08/19/14 10:24am Tow Vehicles
RE: Depressing Depreciation

I assume you're talking a 1 ton diesel crewcab 4x4 at the prices you're talking. If you're someone that trades often, lease. If you buy a diesel for the long run, that's where the value of a diesel lies. My 117K mile F250 is almost 12 years old, and it still looks and runs like new. My Lariat crew cab 7.3 diesel with all options except 4x4 cost $32K new, and it's still worth quite a bit. We're sorry to see that Canadians have to pay so much for your vehicles, taxes, etc. It's simply an expensive place to live. We hope to see you in Florida for the long winter, however. Yep, 1 ton diesel CC 4x4 with all the toys. I think your right that keeping a truck for many years is a less expensive way to go. I need to learn to be content, although, a truck costs money to own wheather it's high depreciation on a new one or lower depreciation and higher repairs on an old one. Not sure about Florida but certainly somewhere warm to break up the winter.
4x4ord 08/19/14 07:39am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

Personally... I think this discussion proves what we all already know. Most people, with a few exceptions, drive what they like. The only Ford I've ever owned was an old Econoline van. Ford's are just not my thing. I don't like the way the new trucks look and their noisier than they have to be. I had a 94' 1500 Dodge Ram. Bought it because (1) the GM dealer PO'ed me the day I went to buy a new truck and I liked the new Dodge body style. But it had a HUGE blind spot on the passenger side windshield post, it never rode as good as my GM trucks, and the transmission went out of it at less than 10k miles. On the new ones, the tow mirrors coming at you remind me of Bullwinkle moose. And Rams are also noisier than they have to be. Other than those things, I wouldn't be afraid to hook up with anyone of them and do what this test did. Performance wise, there's not a nickel's difference between the three. The rest of it, IMHO, is brand loyalty and personal preference. If you have actually came close to a new Ford that was running you likely assumed it was shut off. They are extremely quiet. While both cruising and under full acceleration the Ford interior is quieter than a Lexus sedan.
4x4ord 08/18/14 09:19pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

6.7 liters is still 6.7 liters whether you have 6 cylinders or 8 cylinders... Powerstroke and Dmax V8s will make their power in roughly the same RPM range. Don't understand the "laid back" comment... You're right the Powerstroke and Duramax have similar power ranges although the GM can keep making power a little longer. The power drops off quite rapidly after about 2900 rpm with Ford where as GM can keep it up till about 3200. (I'm going by memory here and might be off a bit on exact rpm but the idea is on). The difference in behavior of the two engines is huge. The Ford is tuned to loaf along with your foot to the floor towing up a hill at 1900 rpm in 4th gear....if it was to be tuned more like a Duramax it would be eager to drop into 3rd and rev to 2500 where it is making more power and would start accelerating. I tow with both a Ford and Duramax and personally like the "laid back attitude of the Ford".
4x4ord 08/18/14 08:07pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results

The results don't really surprise me. The Duramax is tuned to be aggressive. It will rev a little higher and is eager to downshift and run at the rpm where it makes power. The Ford is tuned to be more laid back. The fact that the Chevy can save me fuel might be enough to put another bow tie in my garage.
4x4ord 08/18/14 03:57pm Tow Vehicles
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