RE: Large storage drawer under the bench seat
That a nice setup I wish I could do that. I have a 99 class A but there are labels that say not to store anything under the seats. Does anyone know if this draw setup would be ok to use?
Steve
RE: Small Class A's
I wonder if there is a manufacturer who consistently makes Class A motorhomes in the size range of 28-30'. It seems most of the used ones we have viewed online are considerably longer than this. I have read on this forum about the Itasca 26' and the Winnebago 26', but they are a little too small. Currently we drive a Class B Coachmen Starflyte, 21', which is great for short trips and vacations, but when we retire we would like a Class A with more storage and headroom; yet not one so large it will be difficult to maneuver and park. Is there any foreseeable trend among Class A manufacturers to go smaller, with gas prices what they've been? Thanks much for any suggestions!
Mary Ann & Ron
Here is a new one that should provide good gas mileage. New RV
RE: When chains are required
We plan to take our motorhome into the Aspen area February or March. We intend to avoid snowfall while traveling but if there's no avoiding it, do motorhomes do better or worse than automobiles on snowy roads? If we screw up and find ourselves on a road where the signs tell us that chains are required, are the guys who install chains for a fee on the side of the road able to do that for RV's?
If your going to be using your MH in the winter you might want to take a look at these. Automatic Tire Chains. I use these on my bucket trucks and have had no issues.
RE: 7 pin harness ripped out of the junction box
I cut a sharp u-turn and ripped out the wiring from the box on the pin. I tried using a diagram I found from E Trailer but nothing works; there is power at the main feed and all fuses are good. Does anyone have a better schematic or diagram for the trailer side of the wiring so I can get this thing road ready?
You might find it here on this google pagemany diagrams
steve
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
Ok truce, I did enjoy tip-toeing through article 551 though. It's been a while since I designed one.
I must ask, why group 31@12v? wouldn't T-105 @ 6v be more bang for the buck?
I only paid $125.00 each for them. That was for the Interstate Odyssey brand. Last year on a project we were doing I had 4 electric lifts on the job and over one weekend the site was burglarized with the batteries and other equipment stolen. That's 4 batteries per lift for a total of 16. I made a deal with Interstate for a buyout as not only did I have 4 lifts put out of service but there were 5 others. The only good thing is I have insurance for loss of tools.
Steve
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
" A little background first because I do not want people to say its not the same as a RV cord or you need to figure for the impedance of the transformers, its still a electrical fire"
This statement specifically says that it is the same situation as the RV cord. This is a false statement and the video is nothing like the situation we are talking about. However, I will say that the video IS the exact situation of every household in America. There is no protection from the pole mounted transformer to your house and if your main panel is inside your house, then you have unprotected conductors running from the meter to your main breaker, which is a much worse situation than what we are talking about here.
Ok, so the cable is rated at 30A rather than 35A. Either way that point is mute as once the breaker inside the RV trips, which it will once it reaches 30A, the flow of current will stop, making it impossible for the conductors to ever see more than 30A unless your have a cord failure. If that's the case, 30A or 50A cord will make no difference, the 50A at the pedestal will trip.
Stop using scare tactic videos and electrical jargon to prove your point. If your point is to impress with words, I'm not impressed.
Hi Curt,
As for the video I state that it is not like a MH. Just shows what electricity can do. As for 30 amp vs 50 it seems as if it is a moot issue, both sides are sticking to their view and not budging.
As for scare tactics that's not what I am doing.
You seem to have some knowledge of the electrical industry how does this sound. I run my RV off the following, 1 set of 4 group 31-batteries that each have a 120 amp hour capacity. These each have a CCA of 1250 amps and cranking amps of 2150 amps. That is 8600 amps that instantaneously available if a positive cable shorts out. Its not likely to happen but if it did it would make one heck of a mess.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
A couple of things about this statement:
" As for your theory that the 50 amp breaker will protect the #10 cord your dead wrong. Every time you exceed the limit of this cord you are heating it up and degrading it. This cord by code is limited to 80%of its rated value. Its rated for 30 amps you should not draw more then 24 amps. Over time if you keep using it this way you will have an issue. That's a fact.
You will never exceed the limit on this cord as the 30A breaker will trip and stop any current draw (unless catastrophic failure and yes it may see 50A until the 50A breaker trips.)
The cord is not limited to 80% of its value, the cord will handle 100% of its value, the 80% is an NEC design requirement, not a limitation on the cord. In fact #10's are rated up to 35A.
Here is a little secret, I use the pigtail all the time...Why? Because it is safer, how?
Well because I know that in the summer when current draw is high and voltage drop is at it's greatest, the 50A receptacle has a minimum of #8 going to it. This reduces voltage drop dramatically, saving my equipment and reducing my risk for a fire from the a/c trying to start.
But don't tell anyone, I don't want the pigtail police coming after me.
Take a look at table 400.5(A)(1) you would need to use column B. Cable is rated at 30 amps. You cannot use the far right column as these are for the most part dealing with electric heat and a few of them are rated for dry locations only.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
In no way am I manipulating the code and I never once said the 30A breaker protects the cable going out to the post. What I said was that if the breaker in the RV sees 30A or according to you 24A, the breaker would trip stopping the current draw. Notice I said draw, as the RV would no longer be drawing any amperage from the pedestal. So now that the RV is disconnected via the breaker, the only possible way for the wire to see any current draw is a failure within the wire itself and even if that happened it would only see the 50A and then trip the pedestal.
Ok, I've looked at your video. Your analyses really makes me question your abilities here. The video electrically is completely different from the situation at hand. There is no breaker protecting the wires on the secondary side of the transformers, there rarely is. The breakers you see are on the primary side of the transformers and they don't trip because the transformers never get overloaded. In order for this video to valid to our situation, you would have to remove the 50A pedestal breaker and the 50A breaker in the panel and the main breaker of the panel and the breaker in the main distribution panel.
This is a prime example of why never to hire a contractor to do an engineers job.
I did explain in my post that this is an example not to be associated with an RV. You should read the full post a few pages back.
As for the 30 amp breaker and any other breakers you should not exceed 80% of the breaker rating. This also applies to wire. Examples of max amperage on wires. #14 wire no more then 12 amps, #12 wire no more then 16 amps, #10 wire no more then 24 amps. For breakers 15 amp breaker should not be loaded with more then 12 amps, 20 amp breaker no more then 16 amps and a 30 amp breaker no more then 24 amps.
As for my abilities, I am more then capable of doing any type of electrical construction work.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
A couple of things about this statement:
" As for your theory that the 50 amp breaker will protect the #10 cord your dead wrong. Every time you exceed the limit of this cord you are heating it up and degrading it. This cord by code is limited to 80%of its rated value. Its rated for 30 amps you should not draw more then 24 amps. Over time if you keep using it this way you will have an issue. That's a fact.
You will never exceed the limit on this cord as the 30A breaker will trip and stop any current draw (unless catastrophic failure and yes it may see 50A until the 50A breaker trips.)
The cord is not limited to 80% of its value, the cord will handle 100% of its value, the 80% is an NEC design requirement, not a limitation on the cord. In fact #10's are rated up to 35A.
Here is a little secret, I use the pigtail all the time...Why? Because it is safer, how?
Well because I know that in the summer when current draw is high and voltage drop is at it's greatest, the 50A receptacle has a minimum of #8 going to it. This reduces voltage drop dramatically, saving my equipment and reducing my risk for a fire from the a/c trying to start.
But don't tell anyone, I don't want the pigtail police coming after me.
You cannot manipulate the NEC to make it work for you. If you want to do something that is not right it's fine by me. The 30 amp breaker in your motor home does not protect the cable going out to the post .
If you are an electrician you would know that the breaker protecting the cable to your motor home is the one that feeds the receptacle on the post.
The following is from the previous post that you may not have seen.
Here is a video of an electrical fire that did not trip a breaker or blow a fuse. A little background first because I do not want people to say its not the same as a RV cord or you need to figure for the impedance of the transformers, its still a electrical fire. This appears to be 13,800 volts feeding 3 pole mounted transformers. The output from the transformers is most likely 480/277. You can see the electrical fire at the bottom of the pole. It's more then likely is rigid steel and the wires are bouncing around and arcing but not tripping the fuses overhead. Just showing that it certain situations freaky things can happen with electricity.
You would never have a catastrophic situation happen like this with your motor home just want you to see the power of electricity.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
69gp, I was doubting your initial statement when this first started but you've convinced me. I think you know what you're talking about.
And thanks for not lowering yourself to the level of some.
TY
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
"First of all I take exception to your remark about my writing, you want the whole story bub. Did I tell you that I have dyslexia and I may jumble some words or make some error's, that I have a speech impediment, that I had to struggle all my life with people like you."
Actually, NO, you did NOT make ANY mention of the above.
Besides, what makes YOU think that my comment was directed solely at YOU?
...And, that's enough.
your quote: (Oh, yeah, while the nit-picking is going on, it might be a good time to ask, Why is it that those who make statements about their advanced degrees so often make silly little mistakes in word usage? Go back and read through the 9 pages, you can find them! It is quite amusing!
That is what makes me think its directed at me.
now we must move along I think I am going to go fix a helicopter you want to help me we have both work on turbines.
Have a good one
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
69gp said:
"My only point is yes it's a minimal risk, slim at best but not likely to happen."
IMO, that right there is the bottom line! As I referenced in another thread, "scare stories"!
If it is truly "minimal risk, slim at best but not likely to happen", why was it ever even mentioned?
As an FAA licensed A&P mechanic, with considerable experience in 28 VDC up to 800 amps, and 115 VAC 400 Hz, and a former aluminum reduction plant employee working around/with 600VDC at 110,000 amps, I find the whole discussion just a little ridiculous!
I have used the adapters. ALL of them! in fact I have adapted a 15 amp outside outlet to a 50 amp trailer, no problems. I have run 30 amp motorhomes from the same 15 amp outlet (yes, even the air conditioning! ONE A/C, that is!), again, no problems.
Yes, the adapters DO work. Yes, they ARE safe, IF you watch your power consumption. No, I am not speaking theoretically, but from personal experience. I have used about any combination of adapters you want to describe, even ran a 30 amp trailer from a 50 amp outlet through a home-made 10/3 cable. Yes, it had to be inspected, and the inspector said that while it wasn't "ideal" it was adequate!
It worked for several months.
"Much ado about nothing" comes to mind.
Oh, yeah, while the nit-picking is going on, it might be a good time to ask, Why is it that those who make statements about their advanced degrees so often make silly little mistakes in word usage? Go back and read through the 9 pages, you can find them! It is quite amusing!
First of all I take exception to your remark about my writing. You are a very ignorant person when you speak of others without knowing the full extent of their background. You want to know a little about me BuB. Did I tell you that I have dyslexia and I may jumble some words or make some error's, that I have a speech impediment, that I had to struggle all my life with people like you. You want to know some of what I have done for work, 500 megawatt power plant, 225 megawatt power plant, 12,000 and 9,000 HP turbine starter motors, 12-125 megawatt windmills, 2-4 megawatt solar farms, 1-2 megawatt solar farm, 2 wire radiating wire treatment facilities, 1 million square foot warehouse with Computerized placement and retrieval. Look at my profile my website is there to verify.
Oh did I tell you that at the current time I am employing 34 people in the field and the office.
Pretty good for someone who has a hard time reading, writing and speaking.
I only said my education to be able to speak about this item with some knowledge behind me. And not someone like you who does not know the NEC, and makes statements that are not true.
You don't know******about the NEC.
You may know airplanes and helicopters but it not the same as wiring in a structure.
But then we are all entitled to our each and own opinion.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
69gp,
Here is the link the one posted above available from Amazon.
Conntek 14315 RV 1.5-Foot Pigtail Adapter Power Cord RV 50 Amp Male Plug To RV 30 Amp Female Connector
If you scroll down to the "Product Description", you'll see the U.L. approval listed.
sparkydave,
Here's that post you made in that other thread a few months back.
~Rick
I can't imagine several major manufactures producing a commonly used electrical product over a period of many years that presents an
inherent danger with-out notice?! Thanks.
I can't either and have already explained the theory, properties and likelihood of any problems associated with it. In fact it's more of a problem just plugging into the 30amp outlet provided by a lot of campgrounds. Reason being, many are loose, burnt and crystallized from abuse. Now that's the reality of it why while we're picking at theoretical straws here,.... and the reason why I have a 50amp plug installed on my 30amp service cord.
If its made in China, do you think they give a ship what you do with it? No. As for your theory that the 50 amp breaker will protect the #10 cord your dead wrong. Every time you exceed the limit of this cord you are heating it up and degrading it. This cord by code is limited to 80%of its rated value. Its rated for 30 amps you should not draw more then 24 amps. Over time if you keep using it this way you will have an issue. That's a fact.
If the campground has loose receptacles then it needs to be brought to their attention who forces them to fix it is questionable be it a yearly inspection or some other agency.
Here is a video of an Electrical fire that did not trip a breaker or blow a fuse. A little background first because I do not want people to say its not the same as a RV cord or you need to figure for the impedance of the transformers, its still a electrical fire. This appears to be 13,800 volts feeding 3 pole mounted transformers. The output from the transformers is most likely 480/277. You can see the electrical fire at the bottom of the pole. It's more then likely is rigid steel and the wires are bouncing around and arcing but not tripping the fuses overhead. Just showing that it certain situations freaky things can happen with electricity.
You would never have a catastrophic situation happen like this with your motor home just want you to see the power of electricity.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
69gp,
Here is the link the one posted above available from Amazon.
Conntek 14315 RV 1.5-Foot Pigtail Adapter Power Cord RV 50 Amp Male Plug To RV 30 Amp Female Connector
If you scroll down to the "Product Description", you'll see the U.L. approval listed.
sparkydave,
Here's that post you made in that other thread a few months back.
~Rick
I can't imagine several major manufactures producing a commonly used electrical product over a period of many years that presents an inherent danger with-out notice?! Thanks.
Hi,
This is the text from the Amazon web site that describes the adapter. ( Product Description RV Camp Power Pigtail Adapter Cord, NEMA 14-50P to NEMA TT-30R, 3 P / 4 W Grounding Elbow plug to 2 P / 3 W Grounding, 50A to 30A, 125/250V to 125V Rating 50A 125/250V to 30A 125V Cable STW 10/3 Cord Length 1.5ft Configuration NEMA 14-50P/NEMA TT-30R Approval Plug and STW: UL, C-UL Approval Plug and STW: UL, C-UL Warranty Limited five year warranty)
You need to read and understand what is UL approved and how it is approved. The UL label is for the cord caps and the cable as separate items. When you put these two items together it does not have a UL label for its intended use. I spoke to the manufactures rep and he stated to me that you cannot get a UL label for all 3 parts put together that being a UL approved male cord cap, UL approved cable and a UL approved female cord body.
On top of that I did a search at UL and could not find the cord adapter listed or the Manufacturer.
The wording they are using for UL listing is misleading to the consumer.
All in all some times you got to stick to your guns to drive the point home. Just because they make something does not mean that its legal or the proper thing to do. If people feel safe possibly overloading a power cable over 200% then maybe these people need to see what damage electricity can do.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
The tap rule does not apply here as the minimum length for a RV cord is 25 feet.
I will agree with you about the over current protection for the breaker but that does not apply to the cord.
My main 50 amp cord is less than 25 feet
and I used to have a 30 amp cord that was ONE FOOT LONG.
So how does that sit with your "Minimum length 25 feet"
In fairness, I will admit to shortening the 50 amp cord myself.
(The one foot cord was a TT-30 to Marinco 50 adapter or is that the other way around (tt-30 plug, marinco outlet). I had one place I used to park.. That was all the cord I needed. One whole foot (yes I'm that good at backing, over 100 feet to get to that spot).
If you altered the factory cord you created a code violation. How does that sit with me? It's your rig and life not mine.
Look at NEC 551.46. 2( B)
All I am saying is people who think they know electrical are the most dangerous.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
Well then, 69gp, I guess the only question left for you is the following: If YOU had a 30A motorhome and pulled into a campground that only had 50A pedestals...what would YOU do?
Per NEC 551.71 I would use the 20 amp 120V receptacle and not the 50 amp .
Honestly I usually only hook up power at my house as most of the time I am boon-docking.
Like previously said in the post here don't kill the messenger.
I always thought hooking up a device with larger amp draw from a lower amp source is a BIG no no, and far worse than the inverse. Talk about cooking a cord not to mention your MH's appliances. Given the 2 I'd go for the best of the 2 evils and opt for 50a. Pretty much like everyone does without incident.
Hi Effy,
No its just the reverse of what your talking about. The breaker is for protecting the wire. So if you use a 50 amp cable on a 30 amp breaker you would never damage the wire or cable. You would not damage any equipment in your RV, just maybe trip the receptacle that you are plugging into. This is what you want to happen as the wires going to the receptacle are only #10's even at that you limited to 80% draw which means you should only have a load of 24 amps total.
Hope this clears it up
Steve B
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
Well then, 69gp, I guess the only question left for you is the following: If YOU had a 30A motorhome and pulled into a campground that only had 50A pedestals...what would YOU do?
Per NEC 551.71 I would use the 20 amp 120V receptacle and not the 50 amp .
Honestly I usually only hook up power at my house as most of the time I am boon-docking.
Like previously said in the post here don't kill the messenger.
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
NEC Article 100:
Appliance:Utilization equipment, generally other than industrial, that is normally built in standardized sizes or types and is installed or connected as a unit to perform one or more functions...
I think an RV falls into this definition.
You need to check article 551 and it will tell you the definition of a MH.
My only point is yes it's a minimal risk, slim at best but not likely to happen.
Also note that a #10 cord is only rated @ 80%, so total draw should not exceed 24 amps.
Steve B
RE: Electrical Pigtail question
Can you plug a 30 amp into a 50 amp? yes. is it right? NO. But people do it and should beware of it that's all.
You were a dispatcher so you should know some of the laws of the road. If the speed limit is 55 mph can you go 56, 58 or 63 mph and not get a ticket? Most likely they will let you slide by, but if you get some officer who is having a bad day you could get a ticket even for going 1 or 2 miles over the limit. Anyway you look at it over 55 is illegal. can you do it? yes. is it right? NO.
I'm not too keen on your analogy to speed limits. Electrical codes are put into place, for the most part, with safety being the paramount reason. Such is not the case with speed limits. While they can be set due to safety concerns, there are numerous instances that the posted limit is more about political persuasion or even local revenue enhancement.
But once again, I read about accidents all the time when people drive faster than road conditions permit. (Notice I didn't say faster than the speed limits, because depending upon your vehicle, your capabilities and prevailing conditions, the posted speed limit might be too fast!)
I STILL haven't found a single post of a Forum member who has had an electrical issue using one of these dogbones where their 30A cord spontaneously combusted due to an overload.
If they are so dangerous, where are the posted problems?
It's impossible for us to live this life protected from everything that might harm us. We have to assess the situations presented to us in life and use some common sense and if we're lucky, we'll be around tomorrow. Certainly recent events in the news are a painful reminder that you can do nothing wrong, and still not be here tomorrow. Sad, but true.
We take the precautions we can against the threats we feel are real. The real trick is to do all that and still enjoy life. :)
Peace, my friend, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
Safe travels,
~Rick
I agree with you that we will not agree. so like you say I agree to let the issue make its way to the end.
Steve B
