Because it is NOT designed to be a TV...but armored personal vehicle for the rich/famous/etc
1/4"...3/8" or thicker steel plate is HEAVY....plus the VIP, their guards and of course guns...
For diplomats...the Gatling gun or the 50 Cal equiped Suburban is normally part of the Presidents motorcade
President's Motorcade Host This M134 Gatling Gun SUV
2008 Chevrolet Suburban with pop-out Gatling Gun
4,405 payload but only 3,000 trailer rating????
Think this OP is just looking for 'sure you can' stuff and already has a few....with many more to follow
If this OP is truly looking for actual information, then look up it's GCWR or ask the dealer to supply that. Tough to find on the internet, as it is key to the actual MTWR and most OEMs do NOT want to put that into writing...
Typically, OEMs MTWR is based on the stripper model to derive the MTWR, so take the listed curb and add the listed MTWR to get the ball park GCWR
Here is the GM media page with most of the 'offical' information: GM Media: 2016 CADILLAC ESCALADE SPECIFICATIONS
In 'Exterior dimensions" section, the curb is 5795 / 2628 (2WD)
6040 / 2739 (4WD)
In 'Capacities' section, the MTWR is 8100 / 3674 (2WD)
7900 / 3583 (4WD)
So you can figure it out yourself, because you have not posted whether it is a 2WD or 4WD
If 2WD it is 5,795 + 8,100 = 13,895 GCWR (approx)
If 4WD it is 6,040 + 7,900 = 13,940 GCWR (approx)
Then go out and weigh your new TV and subtract that from the above 2WD or 4WD to get your actual MTWR....hopefully that will be the basis for the OP's thinking that they will be under their capacities...
Typical newbie mistake is to take the published MTWR as an absolute and that it applies to their TV...it only does apply to their TV if their TV is a stripper model (AKA curb)
How many people are you hauling, how much gear are you carrying, and what size trailer are you looking to tow?
I'll treat this as a loaded 1/2-ton crew cab - you'll probably run out of payload after it's all said and done.
I am not asking if the truck will tow a certian trailer. i will be under all capacities, i was only asking if anyone has any experence towing at the rated capacity and how the truck feels.
Agree...also not an absolute that if one has with no problems...does mean NO-ONE else will...ditto the other way around...if one blew over doesn't mean everyone will...
I've pulled over with my K5 Blazer due to side winds...wasn't towing
Highway a Patrol was pulling EVERYONE over to the side and told to sit it out
Just be careful and go SLOW or wait till the wind dies down
Shouldn't have any concerns I hope.
I would have some....
Is this an absolute must that you go?...I'd wait.
(I'm sure others will come on telling stories of how they towed in a blinding 60 mph blizzard and ice storm, no problem..)
Crazy, but that is the way of it...
Closed a couple of my small controls firms back in the day...
One was industrial controls (segment was in people movers) and had over 70% of the USA Ski Lift controllers in the 70's...till too many lawsuits with HUGE awards...on old, old equipment and saying it should meet 'current' safety standards...even though some of the stuff was over 10 years old.
YAN took up that vacated market and is doing well from what I can see
Thanks for posting back and add that engine braking will also be a bit better with those 4.3's...of course dependent on which tranny gear you are in
Since less throttle than before...hoping you gain a bit more in MPG too (when towing)
Yes, here is IMHO...comments...
First, decide if you believe in the OEM's ratings/specifications/limits/recommendations...or not
If not, then this discussion is academic and do whatever you wish...but know the OEM(s) are off the hook
If yes, then this discussion is valid and of course subject to opinions...and note that there is only one person responsible for the setup and that is the driver...even though that driver may not have set it up
Of the OEMs specifications/ratings/limits/recommendations are performance metrics. Many are minimums set by regulatory agencies. Braking and manhandling the setup are my main metrics...along with longevity. As I keep my vehicles decades or till the wheels fall off and/or won't fix it anymore
Note that I am in the vast minority and labeled "The weight police"...okay, wear that moniker as it fits and understand that many who use that reference in a derogatory manner to defuse or reduce the value of those comments...
Just know that your performance will be less than if within/below your OEM's specifications/ratings/limits/recommendations
That longevity will be less and that the wheels won't instantly fall off...but will sooner than if within the spec
As for the daily driver...it is a TRUCK. I commuted M-F and sometimes weekends on a round trip of +70 miles for years with my 8.6K GVWR Suburban. Before that with my Silverado with 1 ton helper springs on the rear axle. Am 69 with a bad back, joint issues, etc, etc of old age...but for me, okay with a TRUCK ride quality...and daily is a 17 year old mini van
Think you already answered your own question...
"....4 ton 9200 GVWR 4WD Burb..." :h
Even though I ordered the F60 option ($68 buck snow plow option which begets 1 ton font springs) for my 1996 Suburban and tongue'n cheek refer to it as a K3500 Suburban, it still has a 8,600 GVWR...how did you get a 9,200 GVWR Suburban?
myblazer myk5 k5
Picture was before: the 33" dia commercial tires (load range G), modified tire carrier to hold 4 Jerry Cans, 54 gallon main tank, etc
Was in my 20's when ordered a 1973 Chevy K5 Blazer. Sold the 1970 FJ40 for this. Towed with the FJ40, but too short a wheelbase and just not a good TV
Knew better 'cuz uncle Bill taught me so, but had to learn the hard way...thinking am a design engineer...
Dana 60 front, new front leaf spring pack (positive arched), GM 14 bolt full floater rear and new leaf pack, left the 350 stock internally (but an dual plane high raise intake, worked GM Q-Jet, headers (tried over 3 sets and ended up with long tube), roll cage, rear tire carrier also held four 5 gallon Jerry cans, replaced the OEM main tank with a 54 gallon after market (installed it myself), built auto tranny (ingaged and she didn't like the JF40 nor its manual), full time (took it out with a kit), Audi S5000 leather seats, and a bunch of stuff long forgotten...
Never wanted to own a trailer, so borrowed many. The K5's wheelbase was not good for towing heavy (learned that the hard way too), but with the beefed up 5.7L and 1 ton suspension...thought it could and it could, but not well...nor safely
X3...why will keep my Suburban K3500/7.4L/4.1's for a looong time...typically keep my vehicle for decades anyway...
Priced the current equivalent Suburban and fake Suburban's and they all came out in the $90K range...since my Sub has been paid for since bought new...can rebuild it to my liking for way less and still have money left
Built 7.4L to around 500-550 ft/lbs torque and still be smog-able, 4L80E built to take 1,000 ft/lb torque, 4.88 diffs (hope the G80 locker has enough carrier for that), a GearVendors 0.70 or 0.50 OD to split the 4l80E gears to make it an 8 speed, etc, etc...
Of course, it will still be a 21 year old vehicle, but am not into fashion statements in this topic area
Plus...towing is NOT just about torque/HP, but the whole setup to manhandle the trailer during an encounter with Mr Murphy...GVWR, F/R-GAWR, etc matters more than just HP, IMHO...
Looks like a bulked up Explorer. I agree they should add a HD payload pkg and a max tow version. that would get a lot of people out of their old Excursions and into new Fords!Just bought a second Excursion V-10 model so with maintenance they should last my life. Would not buy a new 70k SUV would rather spend my money on toys. While the X's power might not be as much the heavy-duty suspension can't be beat for towing. Same thing can be said about the 2500 series burbs with the 8.1
If I wanted a new SUV I would buy a conversation of the new 6.7 Diesel truck into a new Excursion, way more capable.
I agree completely. Which is why I still have my X. Can't afford $70k for a new one. And a '16 Excursion conversion at near $100k is out of my range!
mysub mysuburban k3500
A bit more than the typical Ford vs Chevy vs Ram (they are all good and have their own 'personalities' that either fits you or not)...but there are major differences between OEM vs after market brake controllers
First, how much money do you have invested in both your TV and trailer?...plus other valuation positions of life and limb. Personally will NOT skimp on this area...BRAKING
Since you do not have an OEM embedded brake controller, after market is the topic.
Add that, IMHO, most who complain about a P2/P3 did NOT have theirs dialed in well
My P3 leads the TV in braking. Meaning it tells the trailer brakes to start braking BEFORE my TV master cylinder ever develops any braking force. The trailer actually starts to slow down the whole setup before the TV's brakes engage.
Since both P2 and P3 are inertia based...once the above braking session starts...the accelerometer in them senses deceleration and will continue to tell the trailer brakes to engage.
Proportional in that it will vary the voltage to the trailer brakes in proportion to the accelerometer's sense of deceleration
Meanwhile, the TV's brake system gets into the game via my continual pressing of the brake pedal to develop MC pressure...which further decelerates...which the P2/P3 will sense even more deceleration to then increase the voltage to the trailer brakes
I can stop the whole setup WITHOUT ever engaging the TV's brakes just by keeping a light touch on the brake pedal without moving the MC rod to develop braking pressure
Key is setting up the TV brake pedal switch to snap over and turn on the TV brake lights BEFORE developing MC PSI. If plunger type (think door bell), it will be tough. Some of the newer TV's have a much better brake light switch
Good luck !
Thanks everyone for the info.
So I will get a Tekonsha proportional, what about this one, anyone using it? Primus IQ Trailer Brake Controller - 1 to 3 Axles - Proportional. Its a little less money than the P2 or P3.
Your opinions are valued.
Also, external ATF cooler if it has an automatic...and...a host of other 'HD' hardware components/systems & software
Exactly what do you mean by "the truck currently doesn't have a hitch"? A hitch consists of a "receiver" and a "drawbar". The hitch head is mounted to the drawbar. I have never ever seen a F150 that didn't come with a receiver.
A number of F150s don't come with tow packages.
A fellow firefighter had the Harley Davidson edition and it had no tow package or receiver.
Buddy Jeremiah...agree and mean to use your TV within its' OEM specification/ratings
To have to modify your TV...says to me, that that person is using it beyond their OEM's spec/ratings
But, am in the minority...wishing to use my TV within the OEM's ratings. There might be the day I'll modify my TV, but then I also know I've taken the liability hood off of the OEM's back (even though years and years out of warranty)
To have more safety margin than needed on the good days...and know that that extra safety margin gets consumed very quickly when Mr Murphy crosses your path...
Jeremiah's picture is EXACTLY my point...
If the monocoque is good enough in stock form...then why does these modifications need to be made?...of course for the OEM's actual tow ratings
Never said monocoque can't...just that I don't like to use them that way and that they can if you use them withing the OEMs actual tow rating
Also, the TV won't instantly fall apart...just sooner when used over it's actual ratings...and the biggie...performance will be degraded (manhandling the whole setup the biggie)
Here is a link to a thread on this topic. Daughter wasn't married to this guy, yet. They both raced sport bikes. Him a Monster and her a Ninja....NOTE...that this trailer is much like towing a PUP...a higher sided/frontal trailer will be very different (more difficult/more work for both the driver and trailer)
They tried towing this trailer with her B2500 half ton (Ford Ranger) and during their test run...decided not enough TV. So they went back with his 4Runner.
The U-Haul guy helped them set it up. Daughter has more towing experience and drove it up from S Calif. Said it was just about as much as she was comfortable.
Ditto when I drove it. He had ZERO experience so thought it was good for it...then hooked it up to my Suburban and let him drive it...no more trying to explain "sex to a virgin" brick wall...
U haul trailer experience?
Posted: 04/24/10 12:02pm
Get all things in writing, especially if the 'kid' behind the counter
says something out of the ordinary or feels wacky.
Daughter came up with her BF and their sport bikes on a U-Haul trailer
Told her to check everything, including the tire pressures. Ditto get
everything in writing (the guy behind the counter asked if her dad
told her to)
Follow all of the stickers and that they are there for a reason (no
matter what the guy behind the counter says).
Notice the 55MPH is backwards as a reminder in the rear view mirror
every time you look
Here are images of the various labels on that bike trailer. Ask yourself
why would U-Haul go to all this trouble and expense both in designing,
having them made, stocking them and then having someone apply them???
snip...go there for the rest of the images
OBTW, this isn't the first trailer the brought out. The others either
had tire problems, wiring problems, etc. This one had one tire low
and she insisted they air it up and told her to carry her bicycle pump
just in case (didn't need it).
Bryan...very sage advice and suggest anyone thinking of that...ask their welder or shop if they would stand behind something like this...ditto if their insurance will...
You can easily have a custom hitch made for a couple hundred bucks.
Maybe in Canada. There's not many shops willing to put their name on a custom fabricated hitch in the US. To many $ at risk if something goes wrong.
Tires have many other responsibilities other than just weight carry...and the PSI is also NOT just for weight carry...it more to hold the tire's shape during its duties
The vehicle door label tire listing is the MINIMUM tire specification to meet that vehicle specifications
Also, the letter designation is only for its "ply rating" and not even how many actual plys it has
When re-engineering the OEM tire with different size/rating, more than just its weight carry rating must be taken into consideration. Of course within the same class tire. Going to the next higher, say commercial, will have an 'E' with way higher ratings
At least the OP is staying in the same class tire (LT) and not dropping down in class (P) rated.
Suggest reading up on how tires are rated and what those ratings mean.
It would be illegal in other countries who enforce ratings of vehicles & their components...to go lower in rating
Ditto wheels...the new re-engineered wheel must have equal to or more spec vs OEM
Rick...so many come here looking for herd confirmation of what they want to hear...
There will be many "sure you can"...."been doing that for years with no problem", etc
Lost is that there is only one person responsible for the setup and it is the driver...even if that driver did NOT choose nor set it up
And many do NOT understand how the several hundred pounds to a couple thousand pounds of lever forces are transmitted to the TV
Am wondering/watching how the new monocoque/unibody CUV's are going to hold up...as more and more are glued together instead of and/or in conjunction with spot-welds
As a retired Toyota master tech (22 years with them) the problem with the hitch bolted to rear cross member only is that with a weight dist hitch it will try and twist that member. Welding it on solves nothing. Hitch needs to be attached to side frame rails. AS non is available if you really want to continue using it to tow with WDH I would as some above have already said find a competent shop that specializes in hitches, welding and fabrication and they can make a hitch that will install to frame side rails, then no more worry. Good luck and happy RVing!
Voice of reason and experience. Merely welding solves nothing. Trade for something more capable or have competent shop fabricate a full hitch.
Daughter and SIL own a FourRuner. They used to be DINKS towing U-Haul sport bike trailers (both one wheel on pavement and full trailer) and a very large PUP. U&sed to tow both with her Mozada B2500 (Ford Ranger half ton). No more now that they made me a grandad !!!...so sold their Ninja & Monster sport bikes...
Know the limits of FourRunners and say it is a very nice TV/SUV...and as with any TV...has its limits/ratings
To the OP, find your actual weights and ratings to do the simple math. Staying within its ratings will be a pleasure to tow with
As for the frame cross member used as a mount for the receiver pin box...it has issues and limits, but gotta understand what those limits are based on design (Laws of physics)
Traditional receiver design has the cross tube (round, square, hollow, solid, etc) work as a torsion bar (twist) when in WD mode. Dead load without WD has it in beam loading with a 'bit' of torsion loading
A vehicle frame cross member typically is NOT designed for torsional loading found with a WD Hitch system. Both in design and material
Why bolting on a receiver pin assembly is mainly good for dead weight usage. WD hitch will stress that cross member in a way it was/is NOT designed for.
Installing a traditional design, after-market receiver is better...but...the TVs frame needs to have the proper margin to withstand that kind of loading
Back on just the OPs TV...again...gather the actual weights of both TV & trailer and do the simple math vs the OEMs ratings
SIL installed LT class tires after asking why his wife's pickup has LT class tires...instant realization of 'the why'...given that, they have gone back to a lower class tires on their pickup. Both cost and that they only use it as a 'car', not a truck...