My first vehicle was an old WWII Peter Boyko's dad had out in the back
yard under canvas...we rebuilt it that summer. Was 15 at the time and
off roading became a life long love...even though Peter's dad took it
away from us after a few trips up to the local mountains...we didn't have
our drivers licenses yet...
Buddies all had CJ5's when my Dune Buggy didn't cut it in the comfort
and carry area. Discovered the Toyota FJ40 and bought a used one for $2K
The CJ's could out run me in speed but when climbing and crawling...the
full underbelly pan played HUGE. Just fun jawing on my part...they HATED
my FJ...of course all in-line six's. The CJ V6 wasn't a match
Back on the Q7...was going by memory and now find that they have a new
one. Much smaller and new platform...MLB2 platform...which now includes
the Bentley Bentaga SUV
Very much a personal thing, but I'll not take any of these overly complex
vehicles too far off the beaten path...
PS...my Sub K3500 really can't get to my secret place...just close
enough to hike the remaining miles...
Sounds like you want more car than TV, but here are some questions you
should answer in order to make the decision
The Q7 is a PL71 platform basis for: Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, Volkswagen Touareg
It is a monocoque vs unibody on frame of the GM
How long do you plan on keep this vehicle? Because if a long time and
plan to serious offroad, unibody on frame is my preference (most serious
offroaders too). Because the spotwelds and sheetmetal joints will over
time stress fracture to squeak/rattle
If a pavement car/SUV/CUV, then monocoque is fine...but if driven hard
and kept a looong time...not something I'd recommend either
If more TV performance, then what trailer do you plan? and where do
you plan to tow it?
How do your drive on pavement and off road? How well do you know HOW2
DIY out in the boonies? Define boonies, as my secret place in the Idaho
Panhandle is around 3 days from the nearest pavement. Crawling at a
max of 15MPH and average of 5MPH
Are you willing to scratch your offroader along its side from the headlamp
to the tail lamp? Run up a boulder and drop down the other side of it
and bang the underbelly of your vehicle? That is serious offroading...
Based on your questions...I'd say get the car... :)
These are trucks...more so than the current era...where they are more cars than trucks
What with the locally available high end Subs (and their variations via other badges)
running to just under $100K and the lowest in the $50K range...I can do a ton of
updates/preventative maintenance/etc and still come out ahead
But, I like to keep my vehicles for as long as am willing to fix them...even after
the wheels fall off...
My fuel PSI regulator leaked back around 1998 or so and have an after market that
bumped up the PSI a bit. Forgot about that, as it is part of the fuel pump system
Plus...the new vehicles have way too many computers, that place it into a nightmarish
situation if it ever needs fixing
One of the OEM CEO's bragged on camera that their half ton pickup has over 2 million
lines of code...that is just the OEM stuff...toss in after market and tuners to
make it even tougher to diag & fix
Back to the OP on his problem...once you fix it, be sure to maintain the fuel system
on a regular basis with 'good' filters
Am noodling something similar and 4.54 or even higher numeric diff ratios for
my 1996 Sub
But with a Gear Venders OD between the tranny and transfer case. Something in
the 0.7 or even 0.5 range
Since they have a gear splitter function, that would provide 8 forward gears. Of
which todays auto tranny's have (close ratio to old guys...that is what it is)
Can get a 1,000 ft/lb 4L80E to marry with the 'built' 7.4L that will go along
with this. Gotta pass SMOG, so buddy who owns a speed shop is noodling
that. Currently says/thinks he can bump it to around 600ft/lbs torque
but passing would be on the hairy edge...
But with that kind of gearing...500 ft/lbs would be fine...just asking
him for more...
Would love to go to 33's or 35's, but don't want to lift my Sub. Maybe a body
lift, but that will take much more noodling. Currently have 32's on 10" wide alloys
On my TV's, drive to torque and on the 2 seater and cars...drive to HP
Welcome to the world of factory IBC.
Now that GMW made this comment...time to toss this into the discussion/thoughts
that will continue for a long time...
First career was in industrial controls (robotics, automation, process
control) and designed & dealt with 'highly integrated' systems
Last career before retiring was in one of the largest computer
corporations of the world. Five concurrent hats. One was to the research labs.
One day the guys at the labs called me over to look at a EV2 proto-type.
The OEM could NOT get it to run well/reliably. Every once in a while
it flaked out and did something wacky
They had converted all the controls to JAVA scripts and connected them
all together to form a 'highly integrated' system
Tod the scientists to get a real time person...they called me... :B
Told them not going to do that for them and they found several interns
who understood and studying controls...COOL !!!
Turns out the OEM did not understand, nor had anyone who did in the
bowels of their engineering groups
There was not master/slave hierarchy...so all the computers thought
they were 'masters' or didn't listen to the others
Fixed it and the OEM killed that program anyway...as an all electric
of the 1990's was going to kill their relationships with big oil...
Back on this topic, which is smack on the above topic, is all about
how the OEM stitched in each/all the computers into the system and
how they established the master/slave relationships. On the slaves,
they too have a hierarchical tree (many sub-master) reporting back to
the singular master
If anyone of the sub-masters and/or slaves do NOT report correctly, the
whole system might go into whatever mode the software says to
Yes..."Welcome to the world of factory IBC"...
TUSON DirecLink is current state of the art. Disc brakes on the TT with their antilock module even more so. And the TT mounted antisway electronic device which senses sway and corrects faster than OEM TV devices.
The TV Network based after market trailer brake controllers are not faster than
OEM IBC, as they *BOTH* get their input from the same source...the TV Network
The OEM TV Anti-Sway system uses the TV ABS system to brake whichever
corner the TV's computer software indicates is appropriate. Am assuming
there is an on-board accelerometer or two to differentiate normal cornering vs yaw
But that a TV accelerometer is just a guess on my part...or if there is
a product with a trailer mounted anti-sway system...please post some links
so that I can read up on it...first career was in Industrial Controls and
still try to keep up on that stuff
Got a few PMs asking...one didn't want this to turn into a urination contest...
Oh well, gotta respond before Barney closes this one...
What I meant by properly setup...includes the TV's brake pedal light
switch. Setup so that it turns on BEFORE it moves the MC piston rod
That begets the trailer brake controller to tell the trailer brakes to
turn on...BEFORE the TV's brakes are turned on with a tiny bit of MC
PSI...and...where those who didn't have their after market trailer brake
This will have the trailer brakes lead the TV brakes and how much dialed
in by the pre-set...AKA 'gain'
Many will have a TV brake pedal switch with a plunger actuation and
tough to adjust as finely as GM's brake pedal switch. Normally those
will turn on the brake lights about the same time as it pushes the
MC piston rod...so can NOT lead the trailer brakes...and the reports
or comments of bucking, banging, etc...mine do NOT
Then noodle this:
ALL vehicles sold in the USA that has agency approved braking will have
dual circuit hydraulics...mandated by DOT/NHSTA and has become the
standard world wide
Meaning that there were enough failures in the past to have the regulatory
agency dictate that all vehicles sold for public roads has this dual
hydraulic braking circuit
Which circuit did those BEST in the WORLD MC PSI sensed tap into?
I know neither of them did both...just one circuit. Noodle the
ramifications of that in reference to the historical data that had
the regulatory agency dictate the dual circuit...if that one circuit
went south...then no trailer brakes...
Then noodle or answer me which one does the current ear OEM IBC tap
Just one or does the OEMs tap into both circuits? Don't think both,
as the $$$$ and the overhead both in R&D, production and warranty
would, my guess, say they only tapped into one...
The after market Prodigy does NOT have this potential issue and is
sensed on the TV's brake pedal switch that turns on the brake lights
Again, there is nothing wrong with anyone's choice...as this is a free
country to date...my opinion is stated above and not going to take
the position that it is best for everyone...just for me and those who
ask me to help setup their system...
PS...there is a after market that senses the TV's network via the
inspection port. So assume it senses the TV brake pedal switch and can
be just as good as what I prefer. Or if it senses MC PSI...not much
different than OEM IBC and predict the same route as the old MC sensed
after market products
Plus, this now adds to the complexity of the computer 'highly integrated'
system(s) and the higher potential of issues...to trying to solve a
Tire class, "ST", are mostly rated for a max speed of 65MPH and should
be kept at max sidewall listed PSI at all times. DO NOT remove air if
it has gone higher during the trip...all tires are designed for that
I do not recommend ST class tires on anything used out on the freeway,
but going two classes higher to 'LT' class requires possible changing
the wheels to handle the higher PSI's. But they should last longer and
IMHO, safer than ST class
Agree, most likely the Sub's fuel pump going. How often has the fuel
filter been changed? That is the main culprit in killing this era fuel
In a pinch after the fuel pump stops...is to wack the bottom of the fuel
tank while someone is cranking the engine. It 'might' start and DO NOT
turn off the engine...this is generally a one time thing...
The fuel pump in inside the tank and the tank has to be dropped to change
it. Done that twice and no fun...third time had it towed to the mechanic.
Get bad gas every once in a while and is typically out in the boonies and
know the sound of the fuel pump going...makes more noise and a
different noise...learn how a good pump sounds like after or if that
is the problem
I do change the fuel filter often, about every 1,000 gallons fuel, and
carry extra filter & flare nut wrenches in my Sub's toolbox
Because "mine is better, bigger, etc...than yours" is why all the ill
will against anything other than what they have...and...feel threatened
by anyone thinking otherwise...
Am not blindly loyal and do have loyalties. That is only natural
Personally think most folks did not setup their after market trailer
brake controllers & the whole setup...why so many like the IBC's...there
is no setup needed of the owner...even then questions abound on these
forums asking HOW2 dial them in
Also personally will NOT touch my brakes hydraulic system for any trailer
brake controller. Nor do I personally like sensing MC PSI as the basis
for trailer braking input. There is a disassociation with what is going
on with the whole setup...but this masks improper controller setup
The banging/jerking/etc folks report is foreign to me on all the TVs
I've help setup and/or fix. All inertia based accelerometer
The Jordan's innards was not to my liking, but saw how it gets the
trailer brakes into the game way before MC PSI sensed
I like accelerometer based along with properly adjusted TV brake
pedal switch initiation. Mine turns on the trailer brakes way BEFORE
the TV's MC ever develops any PSI. So my trailer leads the TV in
braking...to even be able to slow down the whole setup without ever
getting any PSI on the TV MC...for as long as the brake pedal switch
is on and there is deceleration...the P3 will continue to tell the
trailer brakes to stay on...factored by the preset gain...
Unless the IBC's also sense TV brake pedal switch actuation, my setup
will lead the trailer brakes more...AND...will also INCREASE the
amount of power sent to the trailer brakes if the deceleration increases...
There is no one perfect for everyone...whatever works for 'you' the
person asking or advising.
Cross flow scavenging vs loop scavenging...says most of it...
Most in-line has intake and exhaust on the same side of the head
V's has them on opposite sides of the head
Scavenging has to do with how well an ICE breaths in/out...even forced fed...
Why you might see different dia's and lengthes of velocity tubes on
the same engine...ditto headers...anyone ever wonder why they go to
all that trouble to make each tube the same length/dia? Even which
exhaust tube is next to which...more so with the 4-2-1 for a V8 to
6-3-2-1 of an in-line six...Cheap out and only go 6-3-2 and it does
sound GREAT, but loses out on the top end (RPM...runs out of breath)
But there are many, many, many, many more attributes that come into play in
the design architecture of any ICE
For most street folks...polishing and flow matching is not going to be very
noticeable. It is in an arena where hundredths of a second matters or can
make a difference between first vs second...or to boyracers like me
who just love this kind of stuff...
OP...ask the advisors here who know more than the dealer tech who installed your
plug and play IBC to be on call to advise him HOW2...
Good luck tomorrow and since the dealer sold/installed said IBC, they
should make it good or replace it
Another point for your comparison between a MC PSI sensed vs
acelerometer sensed...the MC sensed will only provide as much
braking as the MC sensor says...or how much you are pressing the
An Acelerometer will sense the rate of deceleration and provide braking
power to the trailer based on that rate...factored by your preset (gain)
Bottom line...there is no one size fits all...even in shocks...
Whatever works for you is best for 'you'...it is your vehicle and your $$$$
PS...ask how much for an extra MC PSI Sensor. It should be easy to
change in a pinch. All of the hydraulic braking systems I've ever
designed...had those sensors leak over time. Not car stuff, but industrial
stuff...biggest disc was 48" in dia and biggest drums were in the 200-300lb
Here are some info to arm you for your discussion with the dealer tech
Most of the IBC's I've checked out uses MC (master cylinder, brake) PSI
It senses pressure as your foot moved the brake pedal...that is connected
to the MC piston rod that pokes through the firewall and into the
There is normally about 1/8" travel of the foot/brake pedal BEFORE it
starts to move the MC piston
MC PSI sensed will vary the signal power sent to the trailer brakes via
At startup, all systems should send a: "I'm here and okay" to the master
computer. That will cycle every so often and dependent on the software
If your IBC doesn't say that...the master computer will not know it is
there...therefore nothing sent to the trailer brakes...but you say the
manual lever works...so it is 'in the system' in some fashion. That is
where the tech must start from
Since your TV has all of those subsystems...they all must plug'n-play
with each other. That is also where the tech must confirm
Good luck !
PS...if they can't dial it in...you can have them remove it and replace
with a P2 or P3 and is my choice on that matter
What other options does your new half ton have?
"Highly Integrated" brake controller means it will be tied into some/many of
the other subsystems...that interplay with each other
No small task to install and dial it in...not just Ford, but all of the OEM IBC's
Traction control, ABS, Anti-Sway, etc all tie together plus others that only
the OEM will know...
OEMs produce product for the masses...and the masses do NOT have the
level of knowledge that GearHead/BoyRacers do...nor the experience of
fine tuning them to their own liking...generally speaking... :B
Must say though that the OEMs have and are pushing in BoyRacer stuff
all the time...but...not all BoyRacer nor track stuff is a good idea for
You guys are into the laws of physics both on Vee vs In-line and fueling
of our ICEs
There are always 'give and take' or 'compromises' between the OEMs and
buyers. Toss in the government agencies
They all have their weak and strong points...
Carbs fuel up stream of the valves...to have the manifold fulled with
an air/fuel mixture. But that has higher potential for ignition in the
manifold and pre-ignition/knock/etc...dependent on a host of attributes.
Homogeneous mixture is a good way to describe this intake charge
Injection can be very similar to carbs (TBI, throttle body injection)
to port (injection at the intake valve area) to direct injection
(injection inside the CC). Gone today is manifold air/fuel...just air
Not as even a blend as a carb would provide
The problem with injection is the droplet size and any vaporization
that is hoped for...why the PSI's of today's system...because the orifice's
are getting smaller and smaller in order to atomize (droplets) to as
small a size as possible. There will be rich zones and lean zones to
even just air zones
That then gets into the shape of the intake system, the CC shape (why
BoyRacers will have their CC's shaped, polished, matched & flowed, etc)
Hint...this relates directly to the Vee vs in-line...power pulses
to the crank...
The transition from liquid to gaseous form is also referred to as
'phase change'. Look that up in an Thermal Dynamics text book and the
attendant attributes...mainly temp change and PSI
Then 'efficiency' is relative, but this is an RV forum, not a Boy Racer
forum. So the middle of the bell curve...meaning most won't understand,
nor care about those attributes...just HP man...HP...and the King of the Hill
"Efficiency" can be defined as MPG, SMOG, HP/Torque, drivability, etc
Individually or a combo of some to a combo of all...and guess what?
Regulatory agency requirements are at the top of that list...
Noodled tossing in GDICI ICEs that will be coming to market some
day...but that might give me another headache... :B
There is also the plain fact that if the metal sealing parts are worn...they
will allow engine oil past that seal...
Going higher viscosity does help a bit if the wear n tear isn't that bad...yet...might
help consumption...a bit
Also, engine oil misting was a problem. Most recent to my knowledge and fixed in
later issues...GM's 8.1L big block had an open valley that allowed engine oil
mist to be drawn in by the intake manifold gasket leaks.
Fix was a sheetmetal or plastic pan that closed off the valley
All the metrics matter...not just any one part of the whole system
Most of the wear on ICE's comes from over nite starts. Where the oil
has drained off of the surfaces and the delivery galleries
Why film strength is very important and the filter's anti-drain back
valve likewise very important
Cold viscosity is the first number and is the oils viscosity at room/ambient
temperature. If you live where it gets very cold during the winter, use
the recommended lower first number (there are several weights listed in
most all manuals and is in reference to your area)
Hot viscosity is the second number and is the oils viscosity at running
temperature. If you live in where it gets really hot and/or you drive
hard (towing heavy is one of the hardest) use the higher number listed
in your manual
Bot Racers, serious ones, install pre-oilers, where before starting
or cranking your ICE...an electric oil pump will fill and pressurize
the ICE's oil galleries...this is to have NO DRY starts
Oil filter is not just filtration, but holding capacity and the anti-drain
back valve. Some El Cheapo's do NOT have an anti-drain back valve at all.
Holding capacity both in how much oil it can hold to the amount
of metal particles it can trap...hold and still allow GPH to spec
Dino engine oil has come a looooong ways, but add that the synthetics
have also been improving...film strength is one key area of spec that
applies to this thread. It is in the additive package that improves
the base oil's film strength
The higher the film strength (cold, running temp and ultimate temp)
prevents going metal to metal very often. It is NOT supposed to go
metal to metal, but in our imperfect world...it does too often. Why
I add molybdenum sulfide to most of my lubes...except for anything
with a clutch in there...too slippery for that app
All of mine do not lose oil...except for when driven HARD. Know it is
time to change when the dash oil PSI gauge starts fluctuate and/or PSI
drops below normal. The oil's film strength is gone...or less enough
to notice that
Ask any OEM if they would warranty any breakage on a modified product that is outside
of their published specifications...
In addition to federal laws governing this type of product...there are still some
states that have lesser exhaust rules. That is shrinking ever since that one
state other than Calif adopted stricter exhaust rules...
Part of today's torque control systems are not just to keep parts living past
their OEM warranty periods...but 'traction control', 'stability control', 'sway
control' and ETC...
Also, those are all tied (highly integrated) together with stuff like ABS...
Here is a link to a previous discussion that shows how that push/pull from both
bars work/look like on a chart
Lower weight rated wd hitch on a heavier trailer, unsafe?
BlueOxSwayPro BlueOxChart BlueOxPushPull
Here is a link to a thread addressing this topic and shows how Blue Ox Sway Pro
resists sway with a push/pull on the tongue via the spring bars
I'd personally go with higher rated bars than lower rated bars and
fine tune it via the amount of pull up by the chains
Friction sway to Blue Ox sway Pro
Without your setup specifications, all is out of context and just adjusting
the dials/knobs/etc...plus tossing in parts changes without really
knowing what the heck...
What are your:
TV GVWRTV FGAWRTV RGAWRTV GCWRTrailer GVWRTrailer GAWRTrailer lengthTrailer actual weightTrailer actual tongue weight
Mod's to the TV? Lifted and whether suspension or bodyTires/wheelsetc
A sideview picture, on level ground would help tons and is part of
what others are saying that the setup is key, along with the properly
sized components. Orientation of the setup, on level ground, is to
have the TV drop as per the manual and the trailer level at it's highest
pointing...I like pointed slightly down and that has solved several
I've adjusted (only thing done) and many here on these forums
There is anti-sway built in via the architecture of how the bars provide
resistance to both directions of swing. Discussed here:
Eating Crow - the "new" Blue Ox Sway Pro Pg3
Here is the graph Ron Gratz made up, but you'll need to read the
accompanying text to get the total gist...
BlueOxGraph BlueOxForceGraph ForceGraph
On the GMT800/900 8.6K GVWR Sub's...look for the F60 option...begets the 1 ton
front torsion bars as part of the snow plow prep package...and since
the rear axle is in the 1 ton range...kinda sorta a 1 ton Sub...why
tongue'n cheek call mine a K3500... :)