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 > Your search for posts made by 'BenK' found 539 matches.

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RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

NC...I just quote Proverbs26:4...the shoe usually fits, but most don't get it... :B Back on topic...agree...the "Mine's bigger, better than yours" always creeps into the discussion...AKA...blind loyalty... Even Ram says they use the 'curb' and that is the crux of the whole topic...what is 'curb'...IMHO...that can mean pretty much whatever each OEM says it is via specification...which means is it a 'defined term', which is a legal term (defined term). :B Not lying, just using the available, legal ways to verbalize it in print Lawyers are masters in the written language (grammar, punctuation and even bold/capitalization/etc) that is employed, that have been approved over time in the courts....this is the ONLY GAME...until we legislate this out...but our legislators are mostly all lawyers... :S Even have had one Proverbs26:4 member say: "don't confuse this with technical gobbledygook"... :R :S Oh well...off to tune some kids bicycles for the bicycle event am sponsoring (SMUHA) for the city: Labor Day Family Fun Ride and Bicycle Rodeo Everyone enjoy the rest of the weekend !!!
BenK 08/31/14 10:36am Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

snip.... The difference is that each and every one of these vehicles has a yellow sticker that tells you the EXACT payload capacity of the vehicle. They aren't cheating you, they aren't lying to you. Every sales brochure I've looked at for a truck had a huge asterick that lead you to a disclaimer that payload and weights are dependent upon features. By the way, I believe most vehicle manufacturers tell you the engine output horsepower, not the rear wheel horsepower. If you don't know, its called drivetrain power loss. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting all 410 HP of that 6.4 at the rear wheel... Yup...and says to me, that most folks don't know HOW2 read nor comprehend a contract...of which all documentation from anything with them are...contracts between the buyer and OEM Be it a vehicle, toaster oven, hair dryer, radio, house, vacation weekend retreat, etc...even the parking lot tag...or your ticket to a ball game...anyone ever read the back side? PS...the courts have ruled that you don't have to read it and that the OEM/seller has done their duty to 'inform' you..whether you read it or not...their liability requirements are pretty much done. Pretty much...that goes to their documentation during certification testing, or whatever regulatory agency spec they designed to and certified to meet...
BenK 08/30/14 10:39am Tow Vehicles
RE: Help in choosing tow vehicle needed

ops...double post
BenK 08/30/14 10:35am Tow Vehicles
RE: Help in choosing tow vehicle needed

I call it the ability of the TV to 'manhandle' the setup during adverse conditions AKA that emergency situation when you have to manhandle the setup Note that in addition to needing trailer brakes above a certain trailer weight (that weight limit is different from state to state), but that around that weight...the trailer tongue becomes both an issue with the TV's rear axle weight rating and the biggie: the TV's receiver rating requires a WD Hitch system Read up on the potential TV's design and whether the OEM allows a WD Hitch system or not. Mainly unibody/monocoque designs. Gather these ratings for the prospective TV and use them to compare GVWR RGAWR FGAWR GCWR Then the simple math to figure the range... GCWR >= TV + TT + hitch weights (equal to, or greater than) If you don't have their actual weights, then use their GVWR's, which is the heaviest they are rated for. Of course if you will NOT be loading them up to their GVWR's, then you have more fudge room for the 'other' (TV or TT)
BenK 08/30/14 10:34am Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

My guess on why they do this is more than pure marketing against their competition, which I think is 'now' true... Back, way back, they actually did have folks who bought the stripper model and betcha the main seller. AKA the 'curb' vehicle I used to help prep the 'new' pickup for Uncle Bill's shop. He did buy the better bumpers and moved them onto the 'new' pickup. Anyone remember 'Barden' bumpers? He taught me HOW2 fabricate and weld the bracketry for the bumper vices on them. Ditto the spare and he did rotate all FIVE as he also knew he got every penny out of tires that way. So of course they used the base model to derive the ratings. As more and more folks 'got it' on how useful pickups are...they were also the types who ordered upscale options that the old did not (they just wanted a work vehicle) To today where folks don't consider a base, or curb vehicle I don't blame the OEMs and again driven by ignorance on how it works and the inability to read and understand the fine print All it now takes of for 'one' of the competition to use the 'curb' or 'stripper' model. How else can they be competitive...especially when most all the buyers shop using the 'King of the Hill' MTWR and cargo/payload ratings...WITHOUT reading the fine print, nor understanding what the fine print says Even the Ram used the 'curb base' model. Maybe not as stripped as GM & Ford, but it is a 'base' model and on that, only three so far have admitted to owning a base model here I don't believe the OEMs actually weigh each vehicle. Can believe that they 'might' derive the weight via the options ordered/installed and having the computer do the math adding each/all to derive a weight against the GVWR...but...don't believe they do so, yet Until I'm convinced...will continue to advise those asking to go out and actually weighing their TV/Setup to know where they are in reference to their ratings. Also always say to decide if you believe in the ratings system or not If not, then do whatever, but know you have taken the OEM off the warranty (if any left) and liability hook If yes, then learn how the ratings system works. Including reading and UNDERSTANDING the fine print
BenK 08/29/14 07:44pm Tow Vehicles
RE: All terrain towing - what's my limit? '03 3/4 6l 4.10 burb

Read this thread on the GMT800 receiver do I have the dreaded weak GM OEM hitch? 3 pages
BenK 08/29/14 06:51pm Towing
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

Marty and my Uncle Bill are the only two I know who bought/own base models (edit)...add thunder to that list... :B Uncle Bill owned a custom stainless kitchen sheetmetal shop and all of his trucks were base models. Back then, the bed could be ordered with wood flooring. After a few years of nailing stuff down...those wood planks were no longer able to hold nails. One of my jobs was to replace those planks Now that the windshield washer foot pump was mentioned...I do remember them, but forgot all about them Even remember bare/painted sheetmetal dash boards. Padded came in a bit before I started driving Anyone remember the time there were no seat belts?
BenK 08/29/14 10:31am Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

Not wanting to keep this story going but some rv's including MH's have weight rating for cargo. In little print you can see if you add the awning it weight this much. Same for thermal windows etc. Little print is the key I think for nobody seeing the real numbers. chevman Chevman....yup and has many legal positions to back the OEMs up Newbies out of college to my design teams always had to have their eyes opened on this aspect Even down to the packaging imprinted stuff, labels stuck onto those boxes...then the biggies: documentation inside Both the paper manual, 'read me first' sheets, stickers, etc, etc Legally, there is nothing an OEM can do, other than to do that. They CAN NOT make the new owners/users read the warnings and conditions The courts acknowledge and limit liability when those warning labels/etc were there on/in the box(s) Like the 1, 2, 3 or more first pages of most manuals today warning to NOT use it near/in water, do not pull the cord but use the plug, and a BIG ETC I do read them, because used to be in the business. My tech writers became experts after a few cycles with the lawyers. Even standardized the various paragraphs to 'cut n paste' into new manuals Some times those warnings are very stupid...like why would anyone do that...well...because it is in there...betcha someone did and sued that OEM for NOT warning them... :S Bottom line: until all of the OEMs in this market sector are forced to comply to a standardized set of rules...they will all have to do this gamesmanship...as the one who does this will reap the market share from the others...again..it is 'us' who force them into doing these things...
BenK 08/29/14 10:15am Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

They are NOT liars...directly that is...there are laws and the one with the big teeth (fines, recalls, jail time) is "Truth in Advertising" I do demand and expect truth, but also understand how marketing works. As well as engineer and design product teams. Guess what? Lawyers are inter-mixed throughout those processes...as well as "Bean Counter Management" who only manage the bottom line...no longer does management (generally) manage their 'product'... Been saying that 'curb' is the 'stripper' for years and years...along with that also said it's in the fine print, of which is where they "told you so"... Also, the definition of 'curb' is in a fuzzy area. Argued with one guy here who thought is has to be a model offered for sale. He could NOT get it, that it was a custom model NEVER offered for sale Took a few years to finally get folks to understand that they used a 150 lb driver and is from the insurance actuary tables for the 'normal' man... Bottom line....it is 'us' who allows this, as it works so well How many times do you read here and other portals of someone who expout their ratings numbers in an absolute term...or that they bought the 'King of the Hill' XYZ truck/SUV because they believe the marketing verbiage Demographics studies are spot on and that is these targeted marketing spiels...on target...which are the bulls eye's on those folks back sides On testing and certifications (they are different). VERY expensive and more so for the smaller OEMs...but...that will then go into having to explain how it is done...it's not just load up 'one' vehicle and run down to the track with some sensors. :R
BenK 08/29/14 09:56am Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

Of course...they don't run these corporations...the Bean Counter types do (AKA Wall Street Types) I feel sorry for the honest GM employees.
BenK 08/28/14 08:53pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

Latest thread on this... GM Admits to Fudging Payload Ratings by Removing Parts Most all OEMs do this and have been for decades and decades...
BenK 08/28/14 08:50pm Tow Vehicles
RE: GM Admits Fudging Payload Ratings

They all have been doing that for decades... 'Curb' is the 'stripper'...been saying that for years and years and years... Another thread on this topic: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers
BenK 08/28/14 08:48pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

Yep and I'm old enough to remember those days...and...those good old days never left... Still get tons of arguments saying that can't be...it's not fair... I also remember that power windows/lock/seats/etc were not even order-able back 'then' on a pickup Heck, even remember a time when the coinage 'SUV' hadn't been invented yet... That a pickup was the cheapest vehicle you could buy in comparison with the cars of that day 2) GM and Ford are/were both liars when it comes to their payload ratings. They each do/used to remove equipment (like bumpers, spare tires, radios, and center consoles) before weighing the truck so they can artificially increase the payload rating. Maybe I'm too old, but I remember when you didn't get a bumper, jack, radio, a/c, or spare tire unless you ordered them, and many of the folks I knew didn't. The truck would come with a spare wheel and they'd mount a used tire on it for much less than buying a new one from Detroit. Same with bumpers. They'd either move the one form the old truck if it wasn't beaten up too bad or buy (often make) a new one. Didn't see too many trucks with a/c either. Most had the windows rolled down (manually). The way Ford and GM rate their payload may be a throwback to "the good old days".
BenK 08/28/14 08:45pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

snip.... My 2003 silverado 2500HD, LS trim with gas engine has 2,732 lbs of payload and 9,200 GVWR. That includes a 150 lb person in each seat and full tank of fuel.My truck weighs 5,800 and I weigh 220 so technically I have 3,330 lbs of payload. I have had over 3,000 pounds in it and I assure you I wouldn't be comfortable with that weight on a regular basis. 2,000- 2,500 lbs would be more realistic. Go out and actually weigh it...guessing you'll be surprised that it will weigh closer to +7K lbs than 5,800. Betcha a Costo Dog Lunch... :B Then everything else that is based on that 'curb' weight will be reduced...
BenK 08/28/14 08:42pm Tow Vehicles
RE: All terrain towing - what's my limit? '03 3/4 6l 4.10 burb

2003, so a GMT800 platform and that POS receiver Minimum is to change out the OEM receiver if it hasn't been yet. About $200 bucks for a traditional designed receiver and about 1 hours labor Read this thread over at the TV section of this portal: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers Go out and weigh your Sub fully loaded ready to go camping and then do the simple math to figure out your 'true' MTWR You have a small block, so it won't weigh as much as my GMT400 & 7.4L, but the Quadrasteer will weigh more than my rear axle Mine has a published MTWR of 10,000 and GCWR of 16,000, but my Sub actually weighs in around 7,200. So 16,000 - 7,200 = 8,800 lb MTWR, not the published 10,000 MTWR....similar issue to your published 9,300 MTWR Also, if you are going deep and tough terrain...note to disconnect the WD Hitch system. They do NOT like the angles that will be imparted on them and they might break...the OEM receiver will FOR SURE break no matter WD or not out there The trailer lengths you are contemplating are whales (as are any Sub) out there in the boonies. So a limiting factor. I can't make it to my secret place up in the Idaho Panhandle Wilderness with the Sub. The Quadrasteer has a weakness out there in the boonies...and is the steering tie rod on the back side of the axle assembly. If you back up and hit something...they are known to bend to mess up the rear axle's steering.
BenK 08/28/14 11:55am Towing
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

Forgot to finish the simple math exercise.... "....Curb 'test weight' is 5,250...as per the 2014 SMOG test and certification. Data provided by GM to Calif DMV and is an official document. So doing the simple math 8,600 - 5,250 = 3,350 cargo/payload, right? :S ....." Or would my payload/cargo rating be more like this: 8,600 - 7,200 = 1,400 lbs using the actual weight
BenK 08/28/14 11:42am Tow Vehicles
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

Mine is a 1996 K2500/7.4L/4.1 Suburban SLT optioned (everything) Curb 'test weight' is 5,250...as per the 2014 SMOG test and certification. Data provided by GM to Calif DMV and is an official document. So doing the simple math 8,600 - 5,250 = 3,350 cargo/payload, right? :S I've weighed my Sub with me (180), toolbox (+200), misc stuff (+50) at the local garden supply. County weights and measure sticker for that year, so certified by the county to be correct. 7,200 lbs. How many components/sub-systems would I have to unbolt to get mine down to it's curb? Don't know why mine is categorized as a 'high emitter profile', but it passes with lower readings than most cars in the state http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/EngineTranny%20AUTO/IMAG0089BWrdcd.jpg~original width=640 My drivers door labels. One is the GVWR/GAWR front and rear and one that belongs on a half ton Sub, but it's on my 3/4 ton... Other is the glove box label with all options my Sub left the factory with GVWR label http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/09270005_Sub_Dr_main_rm_VIN.jpg width=640 Wacky tire PSI label. Both half ton GVWR, but 3/4 ton class tires??? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/09270006_Sub_door.jpg width=640 Glove box label with all optional equipment my Sub left the factory with A 'curb' Sub would have nothing on this label or very few items http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/09270001_Sub_glv_bx_rmVIN.jpg width=640
BenK 08/28/14 11:24am Tow Vehicles
RE: Door sticker says never exceed 1263 lbs of cargo/passengers.

This can only be resolved by enough folks who will go out and actually weighing their TV's and posting that weight ticket, door label (tread act) and their published curb Even when a retired portal member who acknowledged that is the case for the door labels...retired from one of the Big Three as the manager of the Label DB group. And say that, that person & his group are powerful. That same person in my corporation ($17Billion revenues per year) could stop a whole production line and several times...my design team's release to production. I would love to learn that the OEMs are doing the right thing...but with decades of deciphering these ratings systems...still gotta show me before I'll change
BenK 08/28/14 11:13am Tow Vehicles
RE: is an 8" adjustable shank enough?

Guess a bit more details on how it's figured... Used the MTWR, as the OP referenced it and usually folks think in absolute terms Meaning that if the MTWR says 9,600 lbs...then that TV is rated to tow 9,600 lbs no matter what else 15,000 GCWR - 9,600 MTWR - 50 hitch = 5,350 lbs your TV can weigh. Why need to know your TV's actual. Betcha it weighs more, as that 5,350 is the 'curb' weight Now if the actual weight of the OPs trailer is 6,000 lbs...then the above formula would look like this: 15,000 GCWR - 6,000 - 50 =8,950 that the TV weigh, but it's GVWR is 6,800...so that GVWR will be the limiting factor for the OPs setup
BenK 08/27/14 06:46pm Towing
RE: is an 8" adjustable shank enough?

You still need actual weights for the TV, trailer and the tongue Here are the basics without the actuals: 15,000 GCWR - 9,600 MTWR - 50 hitch = 5,350 lbs your TV can weigh. Why need to know your TV's actual. Betcha it weighs more, as that 5,350 is the 'curb' weight 5,350 will have additional weight with: the optional stuff, the other seat belts filled, toolbox, ice chest, pets, etc in the TV. More if you have power windows, power seats, power locks, upgraded interior, etc, etc Since a Crew, it already weighs more than a regular pickup (added sheetmetal, glass, doors, seats, etc) The OPs is the lowest sub-class of the half ton classes. Normally they will get into RGAWR trouble first. Mainly because of the low 3,950 RGAWR (the fake half ton normally has a +6K RGAWR) With a RGAWR of 3,950...the tongue weight might be too much. Especially if the Crew Cab is filled with people (few adults weigh in at the 150lb person the OEMs use to derive ratings). The main confusion comes from the fact that most pickup cabs and beds are the SAME between them...but...the main difference is beneath and in that the frames are bigger, drive train are bigger, suspension is bigger, etc, etc So discussing the shank's drop is putting the cart before the horse...
BenK 08/27/14 11:03am Towing
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