Welcome to the forum!
as for parking structures...unfortunately...the fashion statem crowd has
the OEM marketing folks spec out ever taller pickups and SUVs...they
look bigger, but the real metrics are their ratings. I'll get to the ratings
My 1996 Suburban is the 3/4 ton (8,600 lb GVWR) and can go into any
6'4 parking garage. 'Some' 6'2, but go slow and use the antenna as
my guide. If it hits...back outta there. A 'half ton' Suburban is
about 2.5" lower and that is because the 3/4 ton has bigger: frame,
suspension, drive train, tires, etc, etc...even though they both use
the exact same body and is where folks get mixed up
The new 3/4 ton (8.6K GVWR) pickups are taller than mine. Even the lower
class half ton's are taller by a couple inches.
Ask your husband to check the garages he wants to park in and that is
your height mark
All you need are a few pointers on what the various acronyms stand for
and how they play together. Specifications/ratings/limits/etc are all
specified by all the OEMs in their contract to you via their brochures,
specification sheets, manuals and the various labels on/in the vehiche
There is FINE PRINT that modifies those ratings and that is where most
folks get oblique in their figuring. Out of context and thinking any
one rating is an absolute (they are NOT, as there are interdependencies)
Out of context example: say a 'half ton' TV is rated to tow 9,000 lbs
(MTWR, Max Tow Weight Rating) and most folks think that any half ton
is so rated.
Not so. There are three sub classes within the 'half ton' class. A
low end 6.x K GVWR. Mid range 7.x K GVWR and a high end 8.x K GVWR
Then the fine print stating a 'curb' (AKA stripper), one 150 lb driver
and sometimes full fluids, other times partial tank fulls
So that 9,000 MTWR is out of context and bogus unless you have the
'stripper' model...weigh in at 150 lbs, no other people/pets/cargo/etc
'Curb' and 'Dry' are bogus weights based on the 'stripper' model that
most no one every orders, nor are they offered for sale in some cases
Best to use their actual scaled weights. Tough when you don't have
any one of or either of them, but there is a way and it provides the
most comfortable experience with lots of OEM dialed in safety margin
This is the diagram showing how the specifications/ratings/limits/etc
system looks like in graphical form. Same for a pickup, SUV, Van, etc
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/Towing/howmuchcanItowdiagramB4.jpg width=640howmuchshoulditow howmuchcanitow
With that diagram along with the various TV's GVWR/FGAWR/RGAWR/GCWR
and the trailers GVWR...you can figure it out on paper with simple
Since you don't have their actual weights (GVW, gross vehicle weight).
Use their GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight R A T I N G S)
That is the most they are rated to carry or transfer to the pavement
then keep below their GVWR's and you will have OEM dialed in safety margin
Post back on how it goes!
How much force did it take to gouge the head?
That is the amount of sway force taken away from the sway motion...
Agree that 'most' of the sway force is eaten up at the 'L' bracket location
Just my thoughts...I don't have on of these...just interested in the forensics of it all
I recommend NOT grinding/polishing those mating surfaces....nor greasing them
Over at their web site, they say that the friction of metal on metal is one
component of their sway control. 'Better than friction material'...
This friction is the resistance to the sway.
Most of the problems I've helped out with here and personally hands on...were with
the trailer side of the braking system
Poor wiring. From 'just' big enough gauge to El Cheapo connectors. And their
routing to save a few inches to a few feet has some runs doing double duty (gauge
will then be too small for that section/run)
The biggest culprit are the drum/shoe magnet wires. Both just barely large
enough and many times not in good shape...with short potentials
Finally, the shoes need to be adjusted often. The self adjusters don't do the
job well enough
Over on the TV side...the sense point is often not adjusted to have the trailer
lead the TV. GM has a nifty brake pedal switch that snaps over with less than
Other OEMs has the plunger type (think door bell button) and has to be manually
adjusted tighter...but the issue is not too tight, as it will false trip
Always, or at least me, look for the root cause...as whatever that is....is most
likely still there...to do it again...
Might even be a bad production run of coil springs...misalignment of something, etc
Didn't you used to have a ram?
PPPS...pulling to one side..
Mainly to do with the steering box adjustment or new box required
All brakes pull to one side or another, as no two calipers will brake exactly the same
With the big block or diesel, the front steering takes a beating in parking lots
The gears in the steering box wear and in need of tightening. I have a procedure
with pictures here and will likewise find that to post here
PPS...stay away from rear disc conversion kits...
I've not seen one I like
Have my own design waiting for the right front brake components to appeal to me.
Even the OEM 1 ton dually isn't to my liking. Even though the disc is 0.125"
thicker than mine. The pads are thicker and the caliper is also designed for
a thicker pad.
Not enough of 'more' for me to make that conversion...yet
If you have the time and $$$.. a guy over at my Suburban forum went
out and spent a couple nites with his buddy (GM dealer parts manager)
I found that GMT400's had a utility version with FOUR wheel disc's
He searched for all of the part numbers and ordered everyone of them
to convert his to a GMT400 with four wheels discs
Forgot about the hydroboost bleeding procedure...I'll try to find my old post, as
it has pictures that helps lots
The after market front caliper kits are stiffer and larger piston (via oval) but
they leak. Don't think they are offered anymore, as GMT400's are considered very
old by most...I keep'm till the wheels fall off...or I won't/can't fix them anymore
I no longer recommend cryo rotors, nor drilled rotors. Cast in holes
are okay, but $$$$$$$$$$$$
Do recommend slotted rotors
You and I both have GMT400's, which has very poor brakes, but they can be made
very good to great...but...that then requires a constant maintenance level. Mine has
out stopped many 'cars' when they are up to snuff. Many argue: "how can a truck
out stop a car?"...what the don't get is that when those cars go into ABS buzzzz
they have lessened their stopping ability...while I'm still outside of ABS with
over sized tires...so more braking than they have
For the GMT800's, GM commissioned Bosch Brake division to review and recommend
the GMT400's for the up coming GMT800 (GMT900's are now shipping)
Bosch found that the front calipers were not 'stiff' enough and were opening up
(AKA bending at the caliper bridge).
Plus the bridge slide mechanism was not done well either
The rear drum/shoe setup is very old and capable...but the issue is with the
proportioning valving...which did not allow enough PSI to actuate the self
adjusters...unless you nailed it HARD going backwards. If they were too far out
of adjustment...no level over backwards braking would self adjust.
Only manual adjustment would do.
Ask if your rear shoes are original? Many GMT400's rear shoes will last forever
if no manually adjusted...they are NOT in the braking game at all...
Both 1500's and 2500's. Assume 3500's too, as the rear drum/sboe setup is the
same between some 2500's and 3500's (2.5" vs 3.5" wide drum/shoes)
The proportioning valve ratio or bias has been changed for the GMT800's, but
they have rear disc. GMT900's has some going back to rear drum/shoes.
On our GMT400's, the bias is 80F/20R or 70R/30R, IIRC
Those who took theirs apart and played with the proportioning valve springs have
re-set them to 50/50
This is due to any OEM wanting understeering vs oversteering. More so for a
vehicle that will be towing. Gotta have an understeering TV out there for the
masses, as that is considered the safest braking handling. Or 50/50, but that
changes when a heavy tongue weight is placed on the tail
I've not have the time to tear into my proportioning valve yet. Noodling a
variable, but that means plumbing the brake line into the cabin to mount the
Back to what I'd recommend for you
the front calipers:
#1, consider PERFORMANCE level friction materials#2 super tune the slide assembly, see below#3 Change out the front brake hoses...consider woven stainless covering...teflon tubing, but regular tubing ok inside the SS weaving#4 Check the frame clips. They rust and pinch off the tubing#5 Super tune the rear adjusters
Clean everything, or new parts (O-Rings must be new). The new slide
tubes and bolts should be stainless, but they also come in plated
steel (not my fav)
Any high temp disc brake grease will be fine. I add moly powder to mine. Find a syringe
type of grease gun. I have a hand held, mini grease gun loaded from a 15lb
tube of Sta-Lube Disc Brake grease that has Moly additive. They sell
a grease gun needle with a zerk on one end
The O-Rings must be installed first in the bore's counter bore slot
Load a bit of grease on the inside of both O-Rings. Force the slide tube
into the bore, past the O-Rings.This is always the hardest part. I've used a
Once the tube is past the FIRST O-Ring, poke in the grease gun needle into
the OTHER side to LOAD up the cavity made by the bore to tube outer surface
Then slide the tube through the other side.
Then reassembly as per the manual and make sure the bolt is NOT greased/oiled
because that will attract dirt/grit/etc.
ON the rear brake's backing plate, clean well and use a small amount of
grease to coat the mating/sliding surfaces with the shoes edge
Then disassemble, even a brand new one, the adjuster. Use the same
disc brake grease as above. SPARINGLY grease the threads (both
male and female) of the adjuster and the end anvil that rotates on
Make sure it threads EASILY
Reassembly per manual
You have the 1 ton dually brakes, so the MC already has larger bores
and the wheel cylinder also has larger bores. I've upgraded mine to
GM has an upgrade for the rear shoes and they are very good.
IIRC, they are called DuraStop or some such. Mine are Praise Dyno
Brake (Texas, small family op). These should last 100K's of miles
Key is to keep them adjusted 'tight'. Mine initiates ABS most times
I want them to.
Fronts should be HD, or higher...but...know that higher performance
will require them be above a min temp before they are 'good' to GREAT
So, since mine are performance level, gotta get them hot first thing
before I head out. Even grocery shopping.
If anyone has a good proportioning valve DIY...please post the link(s)
and/or the HOW2
Let me preface this by saying we are permanent campers, and don't travel other than that. This was our third year and I don't see us doing anything different. We love the place, out neighbors, and its pretty close to home, and with a kid in sports if we weren't permanent I don't think we would camp. But we are upgrading our camper from a 25' to possibly a Keystone Hideout 31RBDS. I know its more than I would tow on a regular basis with a half ton. But I only have to get it 60 miles to my camp site then its staying there.
Heres the numbers, I have a 2014 Silverado crew. GVWR is 7200.
Of the THREE half ton sub classes...this +7.X K GVWR is the middle
or regular half ton
Max payload is 1710.
This is based or derived from a 'curb' vehicle, which is the stripper
version. Generally, the actual payload is less if your TV has options
Even less when it is loaded with 'payload' or 'cargo'
Rated for trailering 9100.
This is based on that 'curb' vehicle, so if your TV weighs more than
the 'curb', that 9,100 lb rating is less by each pound over the 'curb'
Gross combined 15000. Curb weight of truck 5456.
Go out and actually weigh your truck, fully loaded, in order to know
where you are in reference to 'your' ratings
Most will weigh hundreds more than their listed curb
Camper is 7600 dry, 9600 GVWR, tongue weight listed at 865 (im guessing this is based on dry weight?).
'Dry' is the stripper model in most cases. Most will actually weigh
hundreds or more pounds when actually weighed fully loaded
Yes, most are 'dry' tongue weights, but it does give a hint on the
actual weight's percentage tongue weight. A lot depends on that
trailers architecture and how you load it up
I know its right at the limits, but looks to be within specs. My truck will be empty with just me, camper will not have water but will have 2 batteries and 2 30b LP bottles. I have a weight dist hitch and sway bar. What are your thoughts?
Go out and actually weigh the whole setup, axle by axle. Fully loaded
That is the only way to know where you are in reference to your ratings
Assume all true and accurate...then those very things also weigh more...therefore
reduce the available weight ratings for towing...
Most all GM trucks have the G80 locker option and comes with most option packages
Those shocks are better than OEM, but not as good (normally) as good after
market shocks. The GM magnetic fluid shocks (yours are NOT them)
are pretty good, but once they leak, they are EXPENSIVE to replace. As
there are no after market supplier for them When they first came
out...they were around $800/each and I'd rather get Koni's at a bit
lower price...but way better
Most of the stuff you mention has more marketing verbiage than specifications...
Frame mounted skid plates are the way to go, as the El Cheapo component mounted
skid plates are just that...not as good a d frame mounted on. Component mounted
will have the component's frame mounting points crack when hit hard enough
Appearance package...AKA 'looks' package
Nothing wrong with the stuff you like/love...but to an old time Gearhead/Wrench/Boy Racer...
this stuff is pure marketing verbiage...
Old school rule of thumb was even drop on the TV when finished dialing it in...no
As the OEMs now have different suspensions among them and even within their own
So, I now say follow your glove box manual on how much to move off the TV's rear
and over to the TV's front axle
Best to understand the goal for the finished setup. Much of the advice
on these freebie forums addresses what worked for the adviser, but
out of context for anyone else, as that is all they needed to do to
dial it in. Know what your goal is and then do the dials/knobs/etc
The TV should have enough weight WD'd from the rear axle to the front axle, as
per the manual
The trailer tongue should be 12%-15% of the ACTUAL trailer weight
The trailer tongue should be level at it's highest pointing, or pointing slightly
down (my preference)
Of course within your TRUE ratings. Meaning that the OEMs used a 'curb' vehicle
to derive their ratings. Unless you have a 'curb' vehicle, then those ratings
do NOT apply to your TV.
Best to go out and weigh the whole setup, axle by axle, fully loaded. Then you
will know where you are in reference to your TRUE ratings.
here is how a GM owner fixed a similar failure...
What he uses it for...
The "fix"...guessing he thinks 'good as new'...
With today's hydroformed frames...they are of higher alloy than the old days and
the hydroforming work hardens the metal alloy
Meaning that 'bending it back' only further fatigues that area...unless they
annealed it, then bent it back...then re-hardened it...which I suspect is highly
Busted 'there' because the cab bolted to the frame effectively increases the
frame boxed area around the cab. Ditto the bed...that increased the boxed section
of the frame back there.
So the area where the frame bent/busted is just the frame's boxed
area...AKA stress raiser area, or weakest section
Dangerous and scary that there are folks with these bandaids out there...
I had some cracks in my sockets and exchanged a few emails with Progress mfg. That's how I found out about the case hardening.
What did Progress do about the cracks? I noticed a very small one two days ago in the top of one of my tubes. The ball shank is the right one, so no issues there.
This has gotten one of my interests...design forensics
Initially thought CAST IRON from the pictures...could be steel, but why
would they harden it clean through??? The break is indicative of cast
iron or hardened steel. There was no indication of ductility in the
Can see why hardening is necessary, as they use the friction between
the hitch head to trunnion sockets as one anti-sway component.
This is NOT "case hardened", as that meant to only harden it on the
surface down to a specified depth....to leave the core material ductile
A case hardened would have a different crystalline structure across
the break. From hard (case) to ductile (core)
Steel tubing makes sense, as to cast that thin section would have been
costly. Assume they used cold rolled, as hot rolled requires secondary
and tertiary treatments
I'd have left it cold rolled and instead of hardening for wear attributes,
have sacrificial friction material. Just like friction bars.
As for the cracks on a setup with the proper ball shank length...think
it's with the clear through hardening and the Rockwell C number they
hardened it to. Find that number out and if it is above a certain number,
then becomes brittle
Sorry, it's been decades since my last usage of this area...but...that
number can be looked up. Am guessing it should NOT be above 35...but
harder has higher abrasion resistance...an oxymoron...
Going from 3.73's to 4.1's will have approx 10% more torque at the drive axles,
minus losses. That is how diff gearing works
I don't recommend adding a rear anti-lean (sway) bar to a vehicle that did not
have one from the OEM. If you do, make sure to increase the front bars rating
Otherwise it may create an over steering condition at the limits
For towing, that means a higher chance of jack knifing the setup during severe
We are talking about a 2500 Suburban, right?
The suspension & frame are already very stiff from the factory
For a 1500, yes will help, but key is to make sure the front bar is also increased
The OP is on the hairy edge seems to not understand that, IMHO
Whether by sizing and/or setup
Comments on going out to actually weigh everything and doing the simple math
against their TV's ratings is towards finding out where the OP is in reference
to their TV's ratings
Orientation stuff is towards their setup (all of the dials, knobs, etc to
adjust towards a setup goal)
The goal on setup is to restore enough weight back onto the TV's front axle from
the TV's rear axle. It used to be 'even drop', but the various OEMs have such
different suspensions that the best advice is to follow the glove box manual
on how much to restore the TV's front axle to
The trailer tongue should be in the 12%-15% range and I prefer heavier. Why
folks have asked what the tongue weight is
The orientation of the trailers tongue should be level at it's highest pointing
I prefer slightly nose down and that has solved many folks problems with just
"Fatigued" to an engineer means it is failing to failed....AKA...busted
For the condition the OP describes...says they are the hairy edge of their
ratings and/or not setup properly
Meaning that they are okay when everything is NOT severe...but...when it does
move towards a severe condition...it sways for a 'white knuckle' experience...