Play the lotto, you have a better chance of hitting than seeing a C-clip axle break under normal use
A VERY good analogy !!!! :B :B :B :B :B :B
You are so right...there are folks who do win the Lottery.... :C
It's about the same chances is my guess...so agree with your analogy :C
In 30 years as a Ford tech I've never seen a C clip axle break in normal use, drag racing, yes. Most who drag race use C clip eliminators.
Just because you haven't does it mean it doesn't happen...
Opposite, is if I say since I've seen several since I started driving
in 1963, does it mean everyone will have it happen...
Mud hen vehicles NOT boulevard dragging. None that I've seen were
towing either. Most were 'cars' and one a pickup
Just take your position and the links...if that kind of usage is known
to break them...how close to that kind of loading is on semi's towing
Another analogy is folks saying it does well and lives in racing...therefore
should hold up towing heavy...
Do take that track vehicle and then hook up several tons to it's tail
and then see how long it will last tugging that out on the street
Bruce....yes, interesting and love this stuff too
NOx is going to be managed with bigger CATs and there are new sensors
that will come along with that evolution
Particulate, for now, looks like diesel like exhaust filters and the
onerous cleaning/purging cycle(s), but the latest in this embryonic
technology looks like the shape of the piston top.
It is looking more and more like a bowl than a flat top. DEEP bow with
a flatter head CC area. Controversy over flat or protruding into the
piston bowl cavity or ???
The torque curves looks much like a big block gasser and diesel
Top RPM won't reach small block gassers at this point, but who knows
what these kids in their labs will come up with
No throttle...just like diesel. Forced fed is amazingly doable.
Back on this topic's IP...direct injection of gasoline...
Now that the injectors are 'FAST ENOUGH', multiple squirts of varying
duration (control the burn from very rich...to extremely lean)
Much work is being done with the nozzles. Ruby is the leading material
BUT...with pressures above the diesel common rail...Bosch CP4 pump
issues are going to come up...but they are now aware of the stupidity
in design from those Bosch engineering teams...a better pump will
come and betcha a CP4 for diesel will morph from this work
So similar to the GDICI work and are now married. We will see it in
the next gen DI gassers...ruby orifices...IMHO
Finally, pre-chambers are also coming from GDICI into current DI
to most likely become next gen DI
Yes, fun stuff...
Yes, on the newer rear axles with disc brakes...the disc will then
be held in place by the caliper...which it is *NOT* designed to do.
Nor would it be convenient to experience during a trip...
This is where ALL of those forces from the inside radius pavement/tire/wheel/axle
Think about this during a high speed turn...all that is keeping the
inside radius tire/wheel on is the C-Clip
Think about how much area is in contact to hold all that force from
cornering...all that force is on the grove to C-Clip in these pic's
That is about 1/16" or maybe 1/8" on the C-Clip. Not full circle either,
as the C-Clip has an open area to allow it to slide onto the axle
Lucky that it does NOT have differential RPMs between those mating
Just the traction pulling the tire/wheel...therefore the axle against
How much force do you think there is?
Rhetorical, know the answer...why did they 'need' to tack weld the C-Clip?
Because it is a weak link of any Semi that has a C-Clip design
Hot Rodding around back in my teens...was sitting in the back seat cruising the
local boulevard....dragging from stop light to stop light...
GTO was buddies who I helped build...
Beating up other buddies rides that I also helped build...
My ride was the family's second station wagon...a pink 1954 Ford...not
'my' car, but the families and dad won't let me hop it up...you guys
should understand trying to get a date with my pink Ford vs the other
guys and their Mustangs (no Camaro's yet), GTO's and Vettes...so rode
with them most of the time...
Noticed a wheel poking out on my side (passengers) and it had a rod connected to
it...that seems to be part of the GTO I was in...
Lucky, as the other guys honked and pulled over...
Busted C-Clip and very common among rodders. I've changed out many in my teens
and they were mangled and/or worn thin so that they either busted or mangled
enough to come out without taking out the axle keeper rod
Side loading that tapered bearings solve. Have to understand by Timken invented
tapered roller bearings...thrust loads that a straight roller bearing does not
Just this year...have come across two vehicles (cars) on the side of the road
with their wheel/axle out about 3 feet. Freeway exit ramps, so no time to take
my cell phone out for a pic...other was on the side of the freeway so
again no time to take out the cell...
Didn't know there are tapered bearings for a semi floater, but now
that I've seen it myself know the why a C-Clip won't work there
Tapered bearings require a pre-load. Lots of pre-load that would
wear out a C-Clip in a hurry. That is the main failure mechanism of
C-Clips...wearing out to allow it to move out of the captive counter
sink in the carrier
So for a tapered bearing semi-floater, it has to be much more solid
tan a C-Clip
With the higher pre-load...make sure to flush your diff fluid on
schedule. Use the severe duty schedule when towing heavy
So many consume their OEM's design margins and never understand...because today
many/most do NOT keep their vehicles long enough to suffer the consequences of
their actions...consuming the OEM's designed in margins
Why then do most understand buying used has the risk of getting one from someone
who either consumed most to all of the design margins and/or did not maintain
Or that many don't consider braking a performance item... :? :S
It all boils down to just a few things and the stuff most folks talk
about are not them..except for buddy
#1 is PSI on the piston tops times the area of that piston top
#2 is the amount of energy in the fuel
#3 are all of the characteristics of the laws of physics that play
with #1 & #2
Boy Racers & gear heads have known that since the advent of a hot rodding
The small displacement EcoBoost is forced fed enough air to fill a NA
big block, so it behaves similar to a big block. That is #3 stuff, as
are most of the stuff below
Getting the fuel/air mixture to burn (not explode like most think)
has rapidly expanding gases inside a container...AKA the cylinder/
The hotter you can get it, the more expansion potential there will be.
Meaning more PSI 'potential'
Ignite it before TDC and now you have it expanding in a reducing
volume container. That further increases PSI. This is where one of the
biggest ills comes into play...pre-ignition, or ping, or detonation
That PSI's affect is factored by the piston top area, the crank offset
Must add right now, that the piston/rod/crank offset are traveling
at about the speed of sound (IIRC 752 MPH at sea level and normalized
humidity and temp). That, that mass is REVERSED in an instant to
accelerate back to approx the speed of sound. Repeated XX to
over XXX times a second. This is part of what is known as pumping losses
There is a HUGE friction potential and the why of using the best engine
oil you can....plus how it is broken in (the hills and valleys of the
cylinder wall for oil filming)
Ford chose small displacement for MPG and power via forced feeding.
This is what ib516 means managed by the right foot...the ECU's sensors,
sense rate of change, ultimate stroke, etc
GM chose large displacement for power and variable displacement for MPG.
The ECU manages the variable displacement based on feedback from the
other computers on board...all keyed or taking their master input from
the right foot.
Now to 8iron's....yes all ICE's work the same and the modifiers (variables)
makes the difference
On this, know that ICE's most efficient architecture is a 2 cycle diesel
At about 40% efficiency. The rest of the energy is lost in pumping
losses and rejected HEAT
The high MPG of hybrids are due to two things. Two sources of power,
the liquid fuel (gasoline or diesel....toss in propane and the other
forms of liquefied gaseous fuel) and the battery...which has a higher
power density than either gasoline or diesel
False MPG, as the day of reckoning is the day you have to replace the
worn out Li-Ion battery. Tens of thousands of bucks at todays current
The same can be said for 100% electric too. Plus using the grid
to recharge skirts the various road taxes...for now
This thread is about the Ford architecture. I'm not a fan of small
displacement ICE's for towing. Especially heavy.
Prefer a larger displacement ICE (why I have a big block GMT400) for
towing heavy. My 2 seater is 2.4L OEM and have a 'built' ICE on
the engine stand. Hogged out block, stroked via diesel crank and
a worked head to be about 3.1L inline 6. The 2 seater before this one
had a 1.8L inline 4. So I also understand small displacement.
Plus I'm a GM fan, but an NOT blindly loyal
The next gen ICE after the above Ford and GM offerings will be GDICI,
which will have even better efficienies
For those who haven't worked on one, or doesn't know what a semi with a C-Clip
holding the axle on...here are a few pic's
Here is a typical C-Clip and the axle end with the grove for the C-Clip. The
C-Clip is inside the diff pumpkin housing
This pic is of a C-Clip that has failed and the axle is running out of the
axle tube. *ONE* bearing on these and it's outboard by the brake flange/backing
plate. Not towing, so if towing...it would have much higher loads and
stresses on the rear axle
Here is how it looks like when working on one. That is the ONLY bearing for
This is where the C-Clip and axle end resides inside the diff pumpkin housing
Taking out the C-Clip
This is the C-Clip and the axle end grove
This is a full floater
Full floater axle coming out and notice that the wheel lug studs
REMAIN attached to the axle flange/tube
This is common for us serious off roaders while in compound low...
A full floater and this axle is busted...but...it left the wheel still
bolted to the axle flange
Which half ton are you all talking about?
Marketing badging is just that...Marketing...NOT specifications
These are all 'half ton' GVWR's and the best way to refer to any TV is
with their specifications (GVWR, GAWR, GCWR)...which many already do
when they need/want to be more specific or clearer on the topic
My Silverado is a C10 with the "HD" package (Big Ten marketing
nomenclature back then) and has a GVWR of 6,200
"half ton" GVWRs:
6,2007,2007,4007,6008,200Did I miss any?
They also come with these marketing nomenclatures:
Heavy DutyHDMax TowBig TenDid I miss any here?
If these would help sell to the 'half ton' crowd: Super Duper, Extreme
Tow Package, Best in class (yes, it is the only one in that class),
King of the Hill, Mike Row package, NY Mets Special, etc, etc...
Oh, don't forget the number of lug nuts...but then this Ram 2500,
3/4 ton with a FIVE lug wheel setup is less than the current
'half ton' with SIX lug nuts...oh...there is a HD half ton with
SEVEN lug nuts...which half ton are you guys talking about again?
Betcha it's GVWR hasn't changed, and that the 'new' or 'current'
RAM 2500's GVWR is in the +8K GVWR
"........Just makes you wonder doesn't it. What are people thinking?........"
Well...common sense isn't all that common...or that we even have advisors here
telling folks to lie...tuners are my guess to the #1...#2 would be deleting
That is fraud, IMHO
Then folks wonder why OEMs/Dealers are so hesitant to provide warranty
Funniest personal was while waiting in line at a fast food burger joint...a guy
came in yelling that his burgers & fries were stale. Really yelling and making a
The manager came out and asked what the problem was
That guy yelled at the top of his lungs of how poor the food was and wanted his
Manager asked to see the food and the guy showed him the bag with half eaten
burgers and fries (more than one burger)
Manager asked him when did he purchase this...the guy said just a few minutes
ago through the drive through
Manager said that he would have to go through the drive through to get his
I got it, as that McD's did NOT have a drive through....that guy didn't come
back while I was still in there...
Only matters to those who take their trucks/SUVs off road
Pavement folks should have no problems, as that is the fat part of their
customer based bell curve
Only at the extreme end of that bell curve would have this type of issue
on a 'regular' basis
Question is how often does a pavement queen get into this condition
out on a parking lot...launching a boat...etc ?
Then, is this a one time thing where it would damage like that Ford?
'Sidewall stiffness' has many, many other attributes
PSI is one
Ply rating or load rating is another
Aspect ratio is yet another
Rim width vs tire section width too. This plays with the sidewall
bendback I talk about all the time.
Construction (design, production and materials) also plays
Suspension. Shocks, wheel offset, caster, spring rate curve, etc. The
best handling and quickest response times of a tire is lost on a
mud hen suspension setup for 'ride quality'
All are in consideration to the designers, along with mandated
codes/specifications/etc from regulatory agencies
Then the characteristics of the above combo's offered for sale
Ride quality creeps in too often for my taste in driving and is NOT
on my 'have to have' list. At the bottom of my 'nice to have' list
Slip angle is often mentioned in my car magazines, but not often
on towing forums
Not just slip angle, but the response times thereof. I call it TT
(toss and tuck) from my racing days. Often referred to as 'responsiveness'
of that tire
For this thread and OP, take PSI
Each end of the vehicle has different duties. From weight carrying to
steering (yes, even the rear's fixed steers...holds straight...to a point)
The exact same tire/wheel, but with different PSIs will have differing
slip angle, acceleration/braking characteristics, response times, ETC
The why of keeping the tires for each axle the same, within some
The rear tires deal with another issue and that is the push from any
trailer (Fiver and tongued). They must continue to steer straight to
the TV's centerline pointing...with some slip angle due to those
To the OP...make sure your four corners of tires are aired up to
spec. That each axle's tires are within a small differential
Apologize, thought you had a Sub, but now read that you have a GMT800
2500HD pickup. It does have a better receiver than GMT800 SUV's, but
are of the same design. I still recommend replacing it with a traditional
PS...digital tire PSI gauges have a RICH history of not reading correctly.
Depends what brand/model and how much you paid...that is what I've been reading
up on a potential purchase.
Sticking with all of my pencil gauges and one dial gauge (not digital)
Understand the basics and the 'goal' of the setup...the orientation is to have
the TV return the front loaded weight to +/- static/unloaded height/weight...check
your manual on this, as they are all different these days
Tongue weight (actual) should be 13% to 15%
levelness of the trailer should be level at it's highest pointing and I prefer
slightly down...that has solved many others problems with that alone
Of course since towing heavy, the tires should be aired up. Rear of any Sub should
be at max listed on tires sidewalls
Front has room for less, a most all weight on any Sub is behind the drivers
rear door edge, so on the rear axle
Betcha you still have the OEM receiver on your GMT800 Sub. That is probably the
first thing you should check. If you bought used, hope the previous owner switched
it out to a traditional design. The OEM design is dangerous. About $200 bucks
for a traditional designed from after market providers. Plus about 1 hours labor
to remove/install. This one is the biggest problem with GMT800's
The most accurate OEM dash gauge is the speedometer.
They don't want their speedo's to a reason for the LEO's to pull you over
More than TPS & ABS computer needing to know, but the torque management for
the whole setup and the +5 speed automatic. Toss in traction control and
anti-sway if you have it. Maybe more computers are involved.
Anyone know if the tuners also change those functions, other than just
PS...the computers count "rev's per mile" to calculate everything and
the tire's OD is just what we are told