I picked up a nice, used Silverado 2500HD over the weekend and I need some advice.
This is the fake 3/4 ton...it's really a 1 ton with 3/4 ton marketing
badging...it's a +9K GVWR TV
Before selling my 1500,
There are three classes of half ton...lower end are +6K GVWR, regular
or mid are +7K GVWR, and the highest class in the half ton class is
the +9K GVWR (AKA 'HD' marketing modifier)
I measured the receiver height (unloaded) at 16" and the 2500 height is at 17.5". Do I need drop my hitch down a bit to get my E2 WDH loaded correctly? Also, the TV is running 265/75R/16 tires. The door sticker calls for 80 PSI in the rear tires...I'm assuming that's under a heavy load but what PSI should I use unloaded or with a lighter trailer (5K lbs)?
Since possibly +3K more in GVWR...it's springs will have that much more
carry capacity...meaning it won't drop as much with the same tongue
Most likely will have to drop the shank the one or two or more holes,
because of the higher spring rates.
Welcome to the forum !
Comments embedded in bold, red below.
Will just refer to your 'half ton', as the badging begets too many
There are three classes of 'half ton' TV's. From +6K GVWR to the
regular half ton at +7K GVWR to the fake half ton +8K GVWR. Yours
is the lower GVWR half ton, typically run into ratings issues quickly
On that, mainly the rear GAWR.
Also, I do NOT say 'sure you can', or 'no can not', but provide the
info to figure it out yourself. As the only person responsible for
the setup is the driver. Even you set it up and someone else is driving,
they are responsible for the setup
Normally say to decide if you believe in the ratings or not, but your
post says to me, that you believe in the ratings system.
Being over the ratings/limits won't have the wheels instantly fall off...
they will sooner.
But the main issue is the ability of the TV to manhandle the setup
in the worst day out there when Mr Murphy crosses your path. Either
you have the proper sized components/systems or not...or setup correctly
or not. No time to go back to the store for bigger/better or re-setup
Either it's there spot on or not...
Hi everyone. Yet another "what can I safely tow with this thing?" question...
My tow vehicle is a 2006 Toyota Tundra 4x4 double cab (4.7 liter)
mileage: 60,000 (runs great)
towing capacity: 6700 lbs.
payload max: 1580
curb weight: 5100
You have everything except for the actual weight. Without that you
are just guessing. Normally, the curb weight is the base model (AKA
stripper model, that is not ever sold, just the test mule they used
to derive the ratings)
Things like the optional 4x4 adds a few hundred pounds and that will
take, pound for pound, away from the cargo capacity and MTWR
We currently tow a 2002 Trail-lite Bantam B19.
Dry weight: 2800
'Dry' is the stripper model and recommend you get it's actual weight
Our kids are growing, and we now have a second dog, so we'd like to upgrade our TT. Staying with a hybrid, we are looking at a TT with a third bed and a slide. Here are the specs for the 2011 FR Rockwood Roo.
Dry weight: 4550
Cargo max: 1689
Hitch weight: 532
Are the GAWR's correct? They don't add up to the GVWR. If correct,
then the true GVWR is 2,856 + 2,856 + 5,712. Or 566 less than the
The hitch weight is normally with the 'dry' weight of the trailer. It
will be more with the options and stuff you load into/onto the trailer
The tongue weight should be in the 12%-15% of the actual weight of the
The Tundra has towed the Bantam with ease for the past five seasons. We camp locally in the Adirondacks, always within 100 miles, and our stays range from 2-6 days. We camp 2-4 times a year. We are a family of four (two pre-teen kids) and two smallish dogs. We don't bring bikes or boats. We do bring clothes, bedding, food, a small generator when needed, and lawn chairs. We have minimal kitchenware, and our camping supply box includes a lantern, flashlights, rope, hatchet, and a few tools. And duct tape. :)
In short, we pack light and have no intention to drive distances longer than 100 miles. On many trips, we bring a second vehicle so my wife or I can go back home for work as needed. In these cases, I am in the Tundra by myself.
I hope this is enough information (and I apologize if it's too much.)
One of my brothers says I'm already at my 'safe maximum' with the Bantam. However, my FIL says towing the Roo will be no problem. I used a few online calculators, which say I'm in the 88-92% range of the Tundra's GCVWR.
To say the least, my head is spinning.
We love the Roo that we found (and we aren't in the position to upgrade the Tundra) but of course, safety is top priority. If we don't go with the Roo, we either keep looking for a lighter camper with the room we want or we keep the Bantam (actually...that's not an option) ;)
Any insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
This is how the ratings system looks like in graphical form and
has helped folks 'see' where the numbers plug and play with other
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/Towing/howmuchcanItowdiagramB4.jpg width=640howmuchshoulditow howmuchcanitow
Not writing for the OP...he's going to do this no matter and am writing
for those who might also be considering, but needing a bit of engineering
Fluid coupled fan clutches range from about 10% coupled (min...or
not turned on) up to 50%-60% coupled (full on) for standard duty. HD and
severe duty are about 70%-90% coupled (full on). Both also down in the
mud when turned off (about 10% coupled). The difference
between HD and Severe Duty are in the shaft bearings and retainer...if
not bigger bearings...the airplane like fan blade will wear out the
smaller bearings of the standard duty shaft bearings & retainer and
allow the fan blade to take off and punch through the radiator...been
there done that with my MGB...put on a fiberglass 9 blade and after
a few thousand miles...the water pump bearings gave out and the blade
flew through the radiator
Coupled meaning whatever from the belts (V or serpentine) multiplied
by the dia ratio between the fan clutch's pulley dia vs the dampener
OEMs have been playing around with the coupling and set points. So some
OEM are not standard off the shelf (std duty, HD or Severe duty).
The electric fan clutches must be either off or on, my guess. If there
is a variable coupling, then it's going to be expensive and why guessing
digital...on or off. There might be some parasitic loading and therefore
spins the fan a bit. Guessing down in the mud like fluid coupled...5%-10%
The plenum (ducting around the radiator for the fan blade) is designed
for 'that' fan it came with from the factory
Changing even the fan blade can upset that plenum. Plus there is noise
mitigation in it's design. The Duramax had a huge problem with cooling
because their designers blew it on the plenum (ducting/shroud/etc)
There are other attributes and one key is where this OP is clueless
on. CFM is out of context without the 'head' spec for that CFM
'Head', as in restriction either/or/both negative (puller) or positive
(pusher) and in inches of water or mercury (big stuff)
Betcha the electric fan's 10,000 CFM is 'free air'...
Then the fact that most of the ones on the Flex-a-lite site for this
application has two fans. That makes it tougher to get a GOOD plenum.
There will be dead spots and if they are in the wrong places...may
create backpressure for spots on the radiator (meaning reduced air flow)
Also, note the sheetmetal for those two fans...the open area is reduced
and noodle how much LESS air flow on the highway...when even fan
clutches are turned off...
Anyone ever lift up a 1 HP (120 VAC) electric motor? Pretty heavy
and at 120 VAC, about TEN times smaller than a 12 VDC motor
that would be in any automotive radiator electric fan system. Or looking
at it the other way...a 12 VDC electric motor would be TEN times
larger than a 120 VAC motor (approx)
That is for a 12 VDC 1 HP electric fan motor. My Severe Duty fan clutch
takes +15 HP (it's rated up to 25 HP, but for the OP, kept it at it's
lower rating) and an 12 VDC 15 HP to 25 HP motor would be about +100 lbs
Also, anyone read the fine print in any of these electric radiator
fan assemblies? Hint...most don't use 12 VDC, but a bit higher. Why?
and does your TV's alternator/battery system provide that higher voltage
on a 100% duty cycle ?
Truly wish the OP would proceed with this and report back, often on
how it goes. Maybe I'm all wet and they have discovered some new
laws of physics for me to update my knowledge base and learn
something...like when the Japanese came out with air foil blades for
computer muffin fans!!! Revolutionized muffin fans. Then the swept
back blades, as they were spinning them so fast there were additional
turbulence (think jet airplane wings and why they are swept back)
Welcome to the forum!
2X what Marty said
Additional commentes embedded in the quote of your post below in red
Hello foks first time post, I would appreciate any help I can get.
I have a 2001 Ford f-150, 5.4L Supercab,4X4, 3.55 LS axle. GVWR is 6500 lbs, Front GAWR 3600 lbs Rear 3550 lbs, factory hitch.
This is the 'small' half ton, as half tons span this range of GVWRs
+6K GVWR (small end), +7K GVWR (mid or regular half ton) and +8K GVWR
(or fake half tons)
I am looking to buy either a smaller travel trailer or pop-up in the near future, and am having trouble deciding what type of camper I should get based on how much I can tow. After reading several horror-story posts on buying too much trailer for the truck, I was looking for a realistic number for the maximum weight of a trailer my truck can comfortably handle.
This is all about the OEM's specifications (ratings/limits) and staying
below them. As it's all about the worst day out there when Mr Murphy
crosses your path. Either you have the right sized stuff and properly
setup...or not. No time to go back to the store for proper stuff or
re-setup. Either it's there or not
Mainly to manhandle the whole setup during that worst day out there
I do not have a lot of experience towing and I admit I am a bit of a nervous nelly with towing so I would like to be on the conservative side. I am guessing that around 3500 lbs dry weight is the most I should be considering....? I am leaning toward the larger (12" - 14") pop-ups right now.
'Dry' and 'Curb' weights are derived from their respective base models,
AKA stripper models. Some think that since not offered for sale these
models, nonsence...but that is the only way then can do it and stay
competitive in the 'King of the Hill' marketing contest...and...
the general buying public drives this because they mainly do NOT
understand how the ratings system works...see below diagram
Rarely do I give the "no you can not", or "sure you can", but provide
the metrics on HOW2 figure it out yourself. Best to go out and actually
weigh your TV empty and fully loaded. That is the only way to know
where you are in reference to 'your' TV's specifications/ratings/limits
The only one responsible for the setup is the driver. Not the one who
bought and setup it up...if someone else is driving. The driver gets
any tickets/etc. Also, decide which advice you will take, as there is
no skin in the game on a freebie forum like this one. You can have
a hundred copies of the 'sure you can' and they will have no liability
nor warranty for you.
Again, as Marty says, you can be over the limits just by loading
in your family/pets/ice chest/wood/toolbox/etc BEFORE hooking up
All TV's can have this problem, but the lower GVWR's a higher percentage
because they have lower ratings.
This is a good thread on the 'base' or 'curb' weight of a TV means
Listed base weight?
Your 'base' vehicle weight will be the 'curb', without any options nor
cargo. Pounds/Kg factored by wheelbase
6087 / 2761 (135-in.)
6406 / 2906 (155-in.)
This is the MTWR (Max Two Weight Rating)
Pounds/Kg factored by wheelbase/engine
Note that this is derived from a 'curb', but yours weighs more than that
So the MTWR is pound for pound less that it is over the curb weight
9700 / 4400(135-in. w/ 6.0L)
10000 / 4536 (135-in. w/ 6.6L)
9300 / 4218 (155-in. w/ 6.6L)
9700 / 4400 (155-in. w/ 6.6L)
Here is the link to your van's GM specification page
2013 CHEVROLET EXPRESS PASSENGER VAN SPECIFICATIONS
This image might help you see how the various weights and ratings
interact with each other
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/Towing/howmuchcanItowdiagramB4.jpg width=640howmuchcanitow howmuchshoulditow
Maybe a simple exercise in engineering might help understand the issues...
12volts x 28amps = 336 watts...that is what the OP referenced as the 28 amp electric fan and guessing what he is looking at
I HP = 746 watts
My 7.4L big block needs +15 HP FOR THE UPGRADED severe duty fan clutch
15 x 746 = 11,340 watts / 12 volts = 945 amps to do the same work and that is just for the electric fan motor. How about the AC, wipers, windows, headlamps (100 watt each), AC/heater fan (dash & rear), rear window heater, stereo, ETC...ETC...how big does my alternator need to be?
Now must say the severe duty fan clutch is nothing like the standard clutch...it ROARS and see stuff off on both sides being blown when sitting still
Simple math and plug in whatever HP you wish your fan clutch to need...
There are other attributes...
Like blade efficiency....air foil, dia, RPM, even ducting
Of course losses....like the losses in converting serpentine (RPM) to electrical (12VDC), then losses in converting back to RPMs
Not to say won't work...OEMs are going more and more to electric fans....but....not for large ICEs towing HEAVY with several tons hooked up to their tail...going up an incline for how long !?!?
Remember...all things are sized/rated for the worst case....while marketing usually references the best case...
How much does a 100% duty cycle alternator cost? The one I'd get is over $600.00 bucks
I'd do this for my two seat sports rocket, but not my TV. The 'ex' got the two sedans that has electrics...but they don't need the duty cycle TV's require
Figure out how many HP's your current serpentine belt driven fan requires at full on and that is the mark for an electric fan system for your TV
Haven't checked them in while....but back then they were NOT recommended for big blocks and big diesels
Bet they now have enough HP to pull enough CFM...but that would mean higher electric power from the alternator
Works for cars, but for towing heavy...you have to make sure the whole system is capable...ie the alternator and the protection circuit (fuses, switch, relay, etc) are sized for the higher power
PS...the alternator ratings are for a duty cycle. Meaning a 100 amp @ 40% duty cycle is only good for that 100 amps for 40% of some time period....then the rest of that time???very little current???else damage the alternator
Yes noticed and the more this OP posts, the more the confirmation that this OP
doesn't want to learn, but looking for what they want to hear
That 'new' thread has most everyone advising the same stuff on this thread. So
this OP still isn't getting what they want to hear...maybe another new thread
might get this OP what they want to hear
The one this OP started on bling wheels convinced me that this OP is looking
for confirmation of what they want to hear...and proof a fashion statement crowd member
IMO, most who just look for confirmation really deep down know the
answer to their question...but in denial and wanting confirmation to
make them feel better
IMHO...my 16" by 10" wide wheels fills the wheel wells....really the tires do that...NOT the wheels
Silly to me...are the larger dia wheels showing tiny brakes...poking through the spokes....
PSI, E's, etc without their our yay robustness is out of context
In these larger dia wheels, in order to keep the rev's per mile (tire OD) requires lower as spect ratio tires
Meaning that high PSI creates a ballooning issue on the very flat tread area
So 80 PSI is out of context
Another issue with over sized (dia) wheels is that they have a higher centrifugal force issue....both getting it going and stopping....rubber weighs less than aluminum...and since a half ton....unstrung weight....ride quality degrades
If more than looks...the larger dia will have lower aspect ratio tires ov the smaller dia wheels
Lower aspect ratio has a higher POTENTIAL performance levels...but that is mostly boy racer stuff (track) on cars...TV's not so much boy racer....but... Those lower aspect ratio sidewalls does help or makes for better towing heavy in the twisties
Bedlam...me too and was speaking not of you, but the others (and other threads)
Me too, as admit to being nerd/geek/boy racer/wrench/gearhead and not just
On 'bigger brakes'...so many don't understand 'fly apart' forces on cast iron
and the luck of 30"=33" average tire OD on trucks/SUVs
On 'cars' with avg tire OD in the 22" to 24", the saving grace is that 'most'
do NOT sustain +100 MPH speeds on public roads (some do...we did that when
highway 5 down to S Cal was still under construction...we sneaked on and ran
down there at nite)
PS...I don't have the micrometer eyeballs most folks seemingly have
The 1 ton dually of my Sub's era has what looks like the exact same brakes...
My eyeballs can't see that the front discs 0.125" thicker. Or that the calipers
hold a thicker pad. Or that the rear brake cylinder has a larger bore. or that
the MC has bigger bores. Or that the proportioning valve is different. ETC, ETC
OBTW, the other stuff my eyeballs can't tell...well maybe if the two
parts are laid out side by side...
Like a leaf pack has wider leaf's. Or that they are arched more. Or
that each leaf is thicker
Even the front torsion bars look the same to me when laid side by side...
Since a friends trailer...why not do these two things:
#1) borrow it for a test tow in the terrain you plan to tow and how
you drive & load up
#2) what does he tow with? Borrow his whole setup and test tow that
Make sure you also know 'which' truck options he has. Mainly the
drive train. Stuff like what diff ratio
What about the 5 lug truck Marty and Jeremiah posted pic's of?
Wonder if they are semi or full floaters?
Think they have the 'Max Tow' option available?
Of course must the 'HD' version everyone is talking about
Of course they must have at least "LT" class tires, right? But wait, it's a
FIVE lug, so must be the 'small' half ton, therefore a waste to have 'LT' class
This is pure sarcasm folks...and repeat...the only true way to know
which 'half ton' folks are talking about is to refer to their GVWR...
OBTW, when the first 7 lug wheels first came out...was in a tire dealers looking
at wheels for the now Ex's sedan...boy were the two alloy wheel salesman laughing
at how much that will upset the apple cart. That dealer said won't carry them
and only order them, as he thought it was not going to last...wonder how they
feel about it now that Ford continues to keep them in their line-up
You guys lost me (not hard) on which half ton are
you talking about? On that, which half ton does the OP have?
Basically 3 classes of half tons for the F150 line up (marketing badging)
and the myriad of marketing badges (Max Tow, HD tow package, etc) and has been
report up to a total of 15 different F150 models out there
If the OP has any of the +8K GVWR F150's, it might be okay, but still up against the
If the OP has any of the +6K GVWR or +7K GVWR F150's...going to be over the
So who's on first and what's on second....???