RE: ? for all you elec gurus
It’s hard to troubleshoot over the internet nor would I trust any advice from it. An Electrician should be able to provide you with a technical answer and confirm it by testing. Don’t get me wrong, but with my way of thinking, you haven’t really ruled out your problem. I’m an electrical safety nut; I sometimes get beat up on this forum because I don’t bend the electrical code rules.
My point is, if you had an Electrician wire your shed and while you were paying him, he said “let me know if it holds”, I would assume you would wonder why you were paying him. Anyone that doesn’t know before hand if their wiring isn’t going to work safely, is putting their self at risk. I’ve said it before, a lot of people can wire a light and make it shine but it doesn’t mean that it is done safely.
Not to go all “safety” on you, but what “if” your Spa breaker was doing its job and detected a fault and your patio GFCI was not!! From my keyboard I can’t confirm it.
RE: ? for all you elec gurus
Not really sure what you mean about a sensitive Spa breaker. Is it a single pole 50a GFI breaker? Is the 15 amp outlet you’re plugging into a GFI also?
On the side of caution, I would want to know why the spa breaker was tripping, if it was a ground fault condition, it could cause you harm. Also the 30 amp RV outlet should be fused (breaker) at 30 amps. The breaker is really there to protect you from and over current condition, if your trailer’s 30 amp wiring has a fault (short) and draws under 50 amps, the 50 amp breaker wouldn’t protect 30 amp wires. In my opinion, the Electrician at HD should’ve told you how to wire it to code, if you want to still have 50 amps in the shed, then you should install a sub panel.
RE: Mild shock
Sal
There are a lot of what ifs here. I believe if an unbonded generator has a single fault and if you get in the path, then you would get a shock. If the generator was bonded and grounded to earth then the fault current should go to ground and most likely trip the generator’s over current device (fuse, breaker .. etc).
Wayne;
Your right, but by convention in North America a wire that is grounded in a two wire single phase circuit is usually labeled a neutral. Example the X2 wire on a control transformer.
RE: Mild shock
I'm also curious. Small portable generators do not have ground bonded to neutral. They are very safe. You won't get shocked if hot shorts to ground. Can't get better than that!
Sal
I'm curious what the portable generator shock scenarios are. The only one I can think of quickly is if the hot output from the generator is connected to the generator frame and/or earth grounded.
Technically speaking if a wire is not connected to earth ground, it is not a neutral wire. A generator that doesn’t have a wire bonded to ground doesn’t have a neutral wire by definition. So either the white wire or black wire out of a generator has the same voltage potential to harm someone during a fault event. This is one reason there is a neutral wire, for your safety!! Have you ever heard of a stick welding machine that has a neutral wire coming out of it, it is like a un-bonded generator, a smart Welder wouldn’t touch both wires at the same time to many times to learn a lesson.
RE: electric grill trips GFI
Just went through this the same as you. Found out you have to have a 12 gauge extension cord and I suggest never plug into the camper outlets always the campground supply.
I believe that this is not necessary true. In some cases, a 12/3 extension cords are usually longer and the length of the cord can reduce the ground fault current below the 5 milliamps fault current, it doesn’t mean the ground fault disappeared, it only means that the GFI doesn’t detect it.
As for the camper outlet, it should be wired to code and therefore as safe as the campground supply. The only thing is that the camper outlet maybe sharing the load with other things in the trailer and I believe that the outside outlets are all GFI protected, where as the camp ground supply may not be?
As for the OP question, I agree with the other posters, there is a fault with the grill and it should be found and repaired or replaced.
RE: Atwood Water Heater overheating
Removed the ECO and T STAT and tested them on my stove. Found both to be opening (no continuity) when hot. Cleaned the tank and put them back in place, assuring that they are tight against the tank. Same result...I switched on the WH and it fired right up, and heated the water to be so hot the PRV started to leak. The water is super hot. Note that when I tested them I could hear an audible click when they opened, so pretty sure they are not the problem. Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Not sure if you are aware of having an air cushion in the HWT. To find out the cause of your problem you might want to make sure that you have an air cushion (If your PVR is leaking then you don’t). If you don’t have an air cushion and your system is pressurized, the PRV should leak (but not pore out) because of the expanding volume of the water in a close system of a RV. I would confirm that you have an air cushion and safely test the temperature with a thermometer (meat) of the water coming out of the PRV, remember this will let the air out of your tank and you will have to make sure that you again make an air cushion. This will confirm that your problem is with the control.
RE: atwood water heater
I’m not sure if you installed a direct replacement or another make and model? The Atwood has a 12 volt DC control module that energizes the relay if the thermostat calls for heat.
Bypassing the relay will give you no control of the temperature in the tank and most of all you will be also bypassing the safety features (e.g. ECO) for the tank to operate safety.
RE: Need a microwave, to fit in a cabinet/hole, can't find any
The links below might give you a start on a manufacture that makes them.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-stoves-ovens-microwaves-parts-1.htm
http://www.adventurerv.net/major-appliances-microwave-c-24_85.html
RE: 50 amp trailer - 30 amp park pedestal
The first was in Rhode Island; the second was in Leamington, Ontario (Sturgeon Woods). There was also a thunder and lightning storm underway when the breaker tripped.
Thanks for the Reply.
After the 2003 Ontario black out I was involved with finding a solution to keeping some of the lights on in my area, glad you weren’t in my area LOL.
RE: Autoformer - Where to install?
Hi W8,
Thanks for the heads up on the mov's. I'll just keep using my solar system.
I agree with wa8yxm. It is a fact that MOV’s (Metal Oxide Varistor) degrade and fail; they are a cheap way to suppress over voltage. This is why you can by power strips in the Dollar Store that advertise surge protection. When they do fail they normally short out till they explode and make the firecracker sound and open. This being a hazard, some manufactures have installed a thermal fuse in series with the MOV. Although the fuse lessens the hazard and opens to prevent a pop, the fact is that the MOV is useless and the power strip is just a power strip and the consumer doesn’t know. It is my opinion that although some surge suppression devices that use MOV’s and have an indicator that it is working are sure to fail and if you value your equipment why wait till it is damaged by a voltage increase, I wouldn’t waste my money, it is a false sense of security and isn’t protecting your equipment is why you by a surge protector in the first place.
I read on this forum all the time that people plug in their electronics to a power bar with surge protection. I see in an electronics store that someone would spend thousands of dollars on a home entertainment system and plug it into a $6 power bar. The $100 surge protector in electronics’ shop that looks like a power bar is a true surge protector, a $6 power bar with advertised surge protection is just a power bar when the MOV fail and you won’t know till it is too late.
RE: 50 amp trailer - 30 amp park pedestal
I have adapters for both dogbone connections. When at a 30 amp site, I use the dogbone on the trailer and the 30 amp cord as it is lighter, easier to carry and put away.
The reason I asked the question is the last 2 times we have been out we have tripped the breaker at the pedestal - only once each trip. The second park was having issues as it was very hot on a long weekend with a full campground. The first park no one else had issues. I know our load was not excessive - only the a/c running (but the frig and water heater were on electric so they both could have cycled on causing the breaker to trip).
Thanks for all of your replies!
I’d be interested if both parks were in Ontario. A breaker is an over current device and if it was working correctly, then you either had over current event or the park wasn’t wired to Ontario electrical code.
My reasoning is that by law the Power Grid that is supplying the power, has to supply power within strict parameters and monitored by the IESO. The Power Utility that supplies the customers also has to monitor power quality. The Park has to be wired by code and if the Park is having an issue then it is not. With the new smart meters the Utility can tell if a customer is having a supplied power quality problem and if it is outside the parameters, they are suppose to shut that circuit off.
That said, the pedestal 30 amp breaker is to supply 30 amps within a certain range of voltage, if it can’t do that, then the Park isn’t wired to code. The breaker protects from over current on the load side and if your pedestal is tripping and no one else’s isn’t, then most likely the problem is with your equipment setup.
I have basically the same trailer as you, the RV maker and the RV Park should follow the electrical code, they both know that a RV is going to have a power cord and the length and size is determined by the code. They also know there is going to be adapters used at some point.
I plug my 50 amp cord into the adapter and that adapter into the pedestal. My reasoning is that, the more you use something the more you wear it out. Also I plug the adapter into the pedestal because I have no control on how the condition of the contacts are in the pedestal receptacle are maintained and I would rather replace (buy) a less expensive adapter then a new 50 amp power cord. The use of a one 30 amp CSA approved cord would meet the code, but the connection of more then one might not, you have to connect your 50 amp cord to your trailer anyway and it is my opinion that if I’m physically able to handle the 50 amp cord, then it is the better way. I do carry a 30 amp extension cord in case my trailer cord won’t reach a pedestal (only because I’m cheap). Also rarely is a pedestal too far away in a new RV park because again, the newer code requirements determine the location of the pedestal which tries to reduce the use of extensions added to the RV cord. A 30 amp cord that plugs into your 50 amp trailer would be the best in my opinion, but then again, I’m cheap and again you’re still plugging in your own expensive cord into someone’s receptacle.
FYI:
At home I do have a 50 amp RV receptacle and rarely use it. Between trips I do unplug my converter and plug it into a 15 amp extension cord to maintain the 12 volt system, so I don’t have to wear out and lug around my 50 amp cord.
RE: Lube for the exterior doors?
Just another product I use called Jig-a-loo, a professional window installer told me about this stuff a few years ago and I have used it on stiff and squeaky windows and patio doors since. It seems to last longer then others that I’ve tried and it doesn’t stain or collect dust and it is clear so you don’t see it. The Drislide is interesting though, but the Jig-a-loo is a lot cheaper?
Also road salt doesn’t stick to it and one of the uses it says is to spray a snow shovel and I have. I now spray my snow shovels once at the start of every season. If you have never shovelled snow with a warm shovel, then you will know what I’m taking about LOL.
http://www.jigaloo.com/us/e_products_jigaloo.php
RE: 5th wheels and short boxes
If you’re talking about a GM, then you’re correct. I bought a GMC crew cab in 2004 and both the truck and RV salesmen said that I would have no problem with towing a 5th wheel, I think they were both wrong. The 1500’s crew cab’s only have a 5’8” box. Just my opinion but an auto slider cost more then moving up to a 2500 6’ 6” truck. Like posted, the Ford F150 trucks come with different box lengths. And the F250’s (like mine) has a 6’9” box. I bought a manual slider for insurance for a couple of hundred dollars more and I’m glade I did, do I use it! Only when I want to and it works for me, do I need it, only some of the guy’s that don’t pull my trailer don’t think so. I also drive my truck as a daily driver, so a dually or long box would be out of the question. It also depends on the trailer; mine has the newer rounded front corners, which also weighs in on the decision.
RE: Water temperature problems
Like others have posted, there are a lot of things that could cause your problem, I just posted one that happen to me. I have not read of or heard of too many problems with a mixing valve accept for my year of Jayco. If you winterize your RV, I would think that it would be obvious if you have a mixing valve. It is on the outlet port of the HWT and although is has a knob on it, it is set at the factory and locked so you can’t turn it. When I winterize my RV, I just have to shut off the inlet valve to my hot water tank (On my RV, I can clearly see the back of my HWT through the storage compartment). It must have been a new feature, because I had to tell my dealer how it worked because I picked up my RV in the winter and didn’t have them de-winterize it. These valves cost $280, so I’m assuming that is why I don’t hear of too many RV’s using them. I’ll have to ask my dealer if Jayco is still installing them, this is also why I think that a mixing valve being your problem could be a rare possibility and if your tank is heating water to over 110 degrees, then some where in your system cold water is mixing with the hot water before it gets to your faucet.
Good luck and please let us know what you found out.
RE: Water temperature problems
Well I received my new thermostat and ECO sensors and installed them today and still have the same problem. The water is only 110 degrees coming from the kitchen faucet which is just above the hot water tank. I not sure what the purpose is of a mixing valve on the back of the hot water tank but I going to check into this tomorrow. This problem happened so quickly. Last camping trip in June we had scalding hot water as normal but on this trip it was significantly cooler. I really think any build up inside the tank would insulate the thermostat and cause the water to really get higher than 140. Just can't think what purpose a mixing valve does...............can anyone explain??
Where I live it is law to have a mixing valve in a house for safety, which is usually called an anti-scalding valve (or tempering valve), this makes it safe that all hot water out of a faucets or shower heads doesn’t get hotter then 120 degrees to burn skin, but the water directly out of the hot water tank can go to a dish washer clean dishes
That said, my 2008 Jayco has a mixing valve and although it makes the hot water never go over 120 degrees for safety, Jayco advertised this feature as having more hot water running time, simply because the models with the mixing valve have thermostat settings over 145 degrees and the hot water out of the tank is regulated (mixed) with cold water down to 120 degrees so you can have a longer hot shower. My first mixing valve only lasted a year and my dealer said that they had multiple failures (8 that I know of) and Jayco sent them a newer design and mine has worked for over 4 years. My first valve wouldn’t allow enough hot water out of the tank to mix with the cold water and only warm water was coming out of the faucet although 145 plus degrees water was coming out of my pressure relief valve.
So I don’t know if you have a mixing valve, that is why I asked if you have 110 degree water coming out of the pressure relief valve of the HWT, was the same temperature coming out of the tap, this would confirmed that your problem is with your tank reaching temperature or somewhere else in your system like the outside shower or mixing valve if you have one. The inlet valve to your tank or outlet check valve could be not open all the way and restricting the flow of hot water out of the tank (but then you would notice reduced flow with only the hot water faucet turned on) or your bypass valve could be open a crack and mixing with the hot water and cooling the faucet water?
Sorry about the length, but simply a mixing valve is so that little kids don’t burn their skin, and Atwood and Jayco use it as a selling feature by mixing a little bit of really hot water with cold water which make a shower last longer. I can’t remember but I think the salesman told me, my 6 gallon last as long as a 10 gallon tank. I’m thinking of putting a mixing valve on a Keg of beer LOL.
RE: Suburban Water Heater Electric Element Replacement
Your thread caught my interest, because I though someone should of answered your question by now. I don’t have a Suburban tank, so I was going to answer.
I looked up on two suburban manuals and got two different answers? Both manuals state that the part number 520789 are elements for your model, but one says it’s a 1440 watt element and the other manual states that it is a 1000 watt element.
Both manuals state that the current that the elements can draw is less then 12 amps, meaning by code and theory that the maximum wattage of the element can only be 1440 watts at 120 volts.
In Canada an Electrician would have to follow the rating on the name plate of the HWT although the manual’s ratings differ. I’m assuming that the manufacturer changed the rating in the past and has lead to this confusion. The problem is that someone on this forum might think it is ok to put in a 1500 watt element; it wouldn’t be legal where I live. So it is really not a question of having a problem, it’s a matter of the following of the electrical code.
Sorry about the length, but I’m only assuming this is why no competent person has come on here and approve of installing a higher wattage element. If your research was through the manuals, then I’d look at the name plate on the HWT to ensure what the maximum wattage of element you can install legally.
