For what it's worth, our Tuscany has two Schwintek slides, and we've had it (and used it extensively) for a year with no problems. BUT --- it might be worth noting that the Schwinteks are on two shorter slides, while the full-wall slide is a traditional hydraulic drive. I echo the earlier comment that the problems I've heard about all involve full-wall slides with Schwintek drives. Thor may have solved the problem in the more recent units, by using more and/or stronger drive hardware, but the damage to the company's (and especially the Palazzo's) reputation is, sadly, already done.
I always felt that the tag-axle Phaetons were underpowered when they had the ISC, when everyone else seemed to be putting ISLs in their tag models. Apparently Tiffin heard that from enough people that they upped the engine to an ISL a few years ago. Remember that the 42-foot-plus tag axle model weighs about 10,000 lbs. more than the 40-footer with the same engine. Sure, it will get you there OK, but more engine is seldom a bad thing.
Bought from there last September. Did most of the negotiating by phone, then drove down there with a choice to make between several coaches we liked. I echo the comment about low-balling the trade -- if I'd had the time or patience to sell our old coach myself, I would have, but even with the low trade, their price was unbeatable. They buy a LOT of certain lines and manufacturers, so I'm sure they get awesome pricing from the factory.
Just don't do like us -- we drove there from the East Coast, and FORGOT TO BRING THE TITLE to the used coach. Fortunately, we remembered it halfway there, had a neighbor with a key to our house FedEx it there overnight, and it was waiting for us when we arrived.
Really nice and accommodating bunch of folks. They encourage you to stay as long as you want, and their very thorough service department will keep fixing things as long as you're there.
I think the complaint is that they refused to do anything about it.
I'd say that's a bit of an overstatement. They've actually fixed a lot of them, but the first round (and maybe more) of fixes didn't seem to do the trick. It's a manufacturer's nightmare, and admittedly they haven't done the best job of ending it. Thor would probably argue that they've followed the appropriate course of action, working with the component supplier (Schwintek, owned by Lippert, a major supplier throughout the RV industry), to come up with a solution. I think the problem has been their reluctance to open up their corporate wallet and fix all of the faulty units ASAP, reimbursing owners for their expense and trouble. They've done that in some cases, but not all, and the damage to their reputation has been significant.
But my point is, this has nothing to do with the quality of my Tuscany, their top product line. I still feel I got a great deal on a great coach, and it pi$$es me off that some folks are so gleefully trashing all Thor products, using this debacle as a major example.
If you do a search for Thor, slide out, you will likely find the posts you are looking for. Thor had a supplier design issue, and from what I understand would only send replacement parts if under warranty, but refused to address the design failure. This meant that meant that the problem was not ever fixed. You are stuck with the bad design. There are a ton of people who are stuck and not happy about it.
For what it's worth, the slideout issue appears to be limited to the Palazzo. My Tuscany also has two of the dreaded Schwintek electric slides, but they are shorter and have been no problem at all. My full-wall slide is hydraulic.
Thor makes a lot of different products under different brands, yet the entire corporation's reputation is getting trashed over a faulty component in one product line, supplied by someone else. That's the RV business, I guess.
I'm on my second Thor DP, and honestly don't understand the Thor-haters. Of course, most of them have never owned a Thor product, but a friend of a friend's brother-in-law had one, so they know all about them.
Listen, if you hang around this and other RV forums long enough, you'll hear horror stories about every brand, except maybe Newell, Foretravel, and the Prevost-based coaches. I think part of the problem is that Thor owns so many brands, and builds so many coaches, that there are bound to be more problems. I'll admit, though, that I'm sometimes amazed at the things that will slip through "quality control" at the factory. However, that is somewhat balanced by Thor's awesome factory service center in Elkhart, where they will happily go through your coach and make everything right, the way it should have been in the first place.
For my money, both our current Tuscany and our previous Mandalay gave us great "bang for the buck," in comparison to every other coach we looked at (including all the major DP lines under $500k or so). Happy Thor owner here, with no regrets.
Thanks all for the responses. Ordered through dealer yesterday, they will install baseplate and wiring kit third week of June. Still undecided about which way to go on toad brakes -- got new RV last fall, was waiting 'til now to decide after replacing toad. Any thoughts welcome ...
So we made a deal on a new 2014 Honda CR-V yesterday, picking it up tomorrow. (Trading in our well-used 2008 Jeep Liberty, which served as both toad and daily driver for 6 years.) We will use our existing Blue Ox Aventa towbar, so looking to have a baseplate installed on the CR-V ASAP.
My concern is this -- I just downloaded the Blue Ox installation instructions for the CR-V baseplate, and what caught my eye was that "the bumper is removed and not reinstalled." Apparently, the baseplate replaces the bumper? (I guess unlike "bumpers" of old, today the term seems to only refer to the metal framing behind the flexible plastic shroud that we see on the front of the vehicle.)
With all the emphasis on vehicle crash ratings, etc., the idea of throwing away a perfectly good bumper worries me a bit. Can anyone shed any light on this, and/or relieve my anxiety?
Do all Class A Diesels from 2010 on require DEF?
Well, mostly, sort of ... all diesel engines built starting 1/1/2010 had to meet new stricter emissions requirements, which most engine manufacturers met by using SCR, which uses DEF. But early 2010 models would have been built in 2009, presumably with non-DEF engines/exhaust systems. And reportedly, chassis manufacturers stockpiled pre-2010 engines, and RV builders stockpiled those chassis, so you could certainly have a 2010 coach, probably even some 2011s, that would have a pre-2010 engine, and thus not need DEF.
Don't fear DEF, though -- my new (2014) coach uses it, and gets better mileage than my 2008 that didn't. Cummins says using DEF to clean up the exhaust stream allows them to optimize engine performance better than in the EPA2007 engines that preceded these, so that mileage is better, likely enough so as to make up for the cost of the DEF, which is really minimal. (The initial equipment cost is higher though, so that's another matter.)
Not a big deal -- had one a few years ago. I don't recall any anesthetic, but I know I was awake for the whole thing, which lasted maybe a minute, tops. I also don't recall any pain the next time I "went," but then I've passed a few stones over the years, and they didn't really bother me either.
Relax, it's hardly the worst thing you'll have to experience as you get older ...
Most buses and motor homes have side to side rear height control valves and one front center height control valve ( tripod air suspension). The left rear air bag pumps to a maximum of 135 pounds in a sweeping right turn while air transfers through a one millimeter opening from the left front air bag to the right front air bag. An immediate left turn allows the motor home to shift its weight onto an empty right rear air bag. The dangerous situation is further increased by acceleration and the fact that the right front air bag greatly increases the height of the center of gravity.
These facts have been confirmed by a study of :-
Highway and Urban Air Suspension Accidents
1. Exiting long sweeping curves.
2. Negotiating the second curve of close alternate turn.
3. Negotiating a curve either during or immediately port torque application.
OK ... so you're the OP, and you appear to know the "why" to your near-rollover (well, more like a "tip-over" -- square items don't roll well, without a lot of speed). Others have given you the solution (go slower), unless there's actually something wrong with your coach, which as your quote above implies, would likely be in the side-to-side transfer of air pressure between the bags.
We own a 2014 Tuscany 40RX, purchased in September from Motor Home Specialist. We've put on about 8,000 miles so far, including the Colorado mountains, and have been very happy with the unit. We've had very few problems beyond the usual shakedown issues, and all have been solved to our satisfaction by Thor. Having been to Thor factory service with a previous coach, we scheduled a factory visit a few months after purchase, knowing they would take good care of us, and they did.
This is our third motor home, and second DP, so we knew what we wanted and shopped thoroughly. We could have afforded a significantly higher-priced unit, but in the end found what we felt was the best combination of features and quality for the price in our Tuscany. No regrets here -- I'd make the same decision again.
Elias....You have your numbers all wrong. Your front and rear gross axle ratings equal your gross vehicle rating. You have 12000 and 20000 equaling 31000, when it should be 32000. You then need to subtract your unloaded weight which is 26100. This gives you 5900 pounds of cargo capacity (fuel, water, people, food etc).
Since when did the sum of the axle ratings equal the GVWR?
I want to see someone load a vehicle that precisely!
Many coaches are spec'd that way, just look at the manufacturer web sites. Has nothing to do with how they're actually loaded -- these are capacities we're talking about.
2chiefsRus is correct about the Baltimore tunnels. If you go through towing or in a RV they will stop you on the assumption that you have propane onboard. Turned off doesn't matter. It is a large fine and to make matters worse it is a "must appear" ticket. No paying by mail.
I've been through the I-95 tunnel with our Motorhome about 1/2 dozen times and haven't had an issue. The statute claims no bottled propane gas in excess of 10lbs. Propane on our Motorhome is in a mounted tank, like a gasoline tank, not a propane bottle. We don't have EZ Pass. The toll taker took our money without question or concern.
You got lucky, it sounds like the tollbooth attendant wasn't paying attention. As the law (and lots of signage, for those who read it, says), NO PROPANE IN THE TWO BALTIMORE TUNNELS, PERIOD. Every time this discussion comes up, there is someone who dissects the regulation and claims it doesn't apply to RVs, and someone who says "they didn't stop me." So I guess the answer is, go ahead, do it if you want, and if you get caught and ticketed, tell them that some guy on an RV forum told you it was OK.
We're on our second Thor DP, a 2014 Tuscany 40RX, after owning a 2008 Mandalay 43A for 4 years. We're totally satisfied with Thor Motor Coach's quality and performance, and especially their exceptional factory service center.
For what we wanted, we think that Thor provides the best bang for the buck, and we have never had any serious problems with either coach.
Do you have a generator (or for that matter a hydronic heating system)? Those will usually cut off around 1/4 tank or so, a safety measure to preserve the last gallons for driving. One more reason to never go below 1/4 tank.
Bolts that come loose normally do dso because they were under torqued or over torqued and then continued to stretch. My guess on the tear outs being discussed is that the base plate attachment points are being stressed during turns. If a RV has a long over hang it is not unusual for the front tires of the toad to go in to scuff. As the tail swings the arc of the toad becomes tighter than the turn angle available in the steering linkage. When this occurs the load at the base plates increase dramatically. I have seen this scuff scenario a few times in smaller gas stations and it is most likely what is causing the "tear out" issues some RVers complain about.
Wow -- that's the most logical theory I've heard yet. I don't have the expertise to judge, but that makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I'll go check my baseplate bolts now ...
Google Motor Home Specialist
x2. Find them here - they will have a price posted on the web site that's about 25% off MSRP, but a phone call will get you their sale price, which is generally several % lower. We bought from them last year, and found them very starightforward and easy to do business with. One caveat though -- they are not generous with trade allowance, so if you have a trade, you might want to sell it yourself.
BTW: Where do your safety chains attach???? I'm hoping they attach or wrap around the frame, rather than just to the baseplate as traditionally done.
My point is to everyone, if the safety chain is not wrapped around or attached directly to the frame, it is not a safety chain, it is a joke. Anyone who spends much time on any RV forum can remember posts of baseplates coming loose or breaking. This seems to happen every so often.
On my Blue Ox Aventa and baseplate, the detachable safety cables do attach to loops on the front of the baseplate, but (when correctly installed) another set of cables secure the baseplate to the toad's frame. I've heard tales on this forum of baseplate installations that skipped that step.