RE: Payload vs Tow rating?
You know Elk, your relatively new here but I won't give you any more sh*t :W I'll just wait for the others.
Come on, GCWR is the most important figure :E Go tell my truck that....
I must have been typiong while you were typing......
GCWR is NOT the most important. My old truck did just fine towing a 12K trailer, with a 12K gcwr mind you! In fact, I would put it up against thesame truck with the auto that was rated at 14K lbs. I'd slaughter it in more ways than one! In fact, in some cases, I would put it up against my dmax, the dmax would lose! other possible testsperformance specs, the dmax would win.
marty
RE: Payload vs Tow rating?
Actually, total payload INCLUDES the passengers. Now camper or bed load, is total payload less # of seatbelts time 154 lbs per!
My truck has a door sticker of 4100, camper load is 3200. My C2500, has a door sticker payload of 3800, camper load of 3350!
GCWR on the other hand, is not a legal term, and Weight cops on the road will nto ticket you for being over or under this amount. Also having been pulled over by a few of them, taken a class or 3 or 4 from them, the axel and gvwr sticker on the side of the door is also not a legal number one has to follow. Most only care what your paid for license/registration says. So my C2500 since I have an 8000 lbs plate, that is ALL I am good too! If I load up to the door sticker gvwr of 8600, get pulled over, I am overwt by 600 some lbs! My dully on theother hand, has a registration plate of 14K lbs, which is over the door sticker gvwr and the sum of the door sticker axel ratings. I am legal to 14K lbs. the door sticker at least in wa st, means squat!
At the end of the day, to me, you still need the proper payload to tow a trailer equal to what ever % HW you need, along with passengers etc. FOr some of us, we will need a Crew cab with 3000 lbs of payload, and will use ALL 3000 lbs of payload while towing a 6500 lbs trailer as I did with my family of 6 that totals 1200 or so lbs when my kids were adult sized teens! We would have typical crew cab 15 series truck at gvwr before loading a trailer. So for me any how. those trucks have ZERO, NADA, NO tow rating ability!
Marty
RE: What would you do...
WHat is so special about leather? Cold in the winter, fries you legs in the summer! dang near as bad as vinyl! The only thing nice about leather from the get go, is the heated seats.
Reality is, your current 6.0 gas is everybit as capable as a dmax. Other than less HP. And the HP difference is pretty minor frankly! Compared to days of yor, when one could get a 105HP motor up to low 200hp in a truck like you have! a low to mid 300hp motor vs a mid to high 300 hp motor, nothing worry about. Yeah the diesel has more torque. BUT the 6l90e has a 4.1 first gear with a 2.05 tc, vs the dmax with a 3.1 first gear, and a 1.73tc. At the end of the day, the gas rig might actually have more torque to the rear wheels than the dmax in first gear!
Marty
RE: Is this a can of worms?
I had a 1990 Chevy 2500 std cab, 8' bed, 2wd, 350cid, 5 speed manual. Today it would be a 1500. It only had 5 lug wheels. Fact is, it was a 1500 short bed extended cab chasis that had a little extra hauling capacity, because it had a regular cab on it, so they badged it a 2500.
Part of this issue is when that body style came out, GM changed the badging/gvwr for a couple of years, then went back to more or less as it is today, and before that. In 88, you couldnot get a K3500 dually, on a SW! IIRC the same in 89. It was 90 before you could get a dualy not in the older 80's body style. The 3500 was a typical 8600gvwr 2500 as most of us would call it. In 89, they came out with a 8600 2500, that had the 350 in it. you had to get a 3500 to get the 454! Other than badging, BOTH were identical!
1500's at the time had a 6000 or 6600 gvwr. 2500's had the 7200 gvwr. Later the 7200 became a ld2500 as the 8600 2500 came back, the 3500 sw became a 9200 gvwr, and a dually with a 10 or 10.5K gvwr came out!
Lots of playing with gvwr's and badging thru the years. Hence why it is usualy better to look at the gvwr/axle ratings than the badging!
Marty
RE: Measuring grade on hills
90 degrees is infinity rise is 100' lets say, run is 0'. 100% is when you rise one unit, go forward 1 unit. hence 45 degrees being 100%. 66degrees if I am doing the math really quick in the brain should be 200%,
I usually use 2% equals 1 degree. WHile not correct to a nats asset, gets me generally speaking, pretty close!
Marty
RE: What would you do...
"IF" you trade, you need a 3500 diesel to equal the payload you wil have with your currect rig. Because as mentioned, the diesel will weigh some 500-600 lbs more than your gas motor. SO in reality, that is a loss of 5000 lbs of tow capacity!
NOt sure how much bigger of a trailer you want, but if a 5w, go to a dually if you have a family! I would even skip the sw3500! My dually has 4100 lbs of payload, my old diesel CC with a9200 gvwr had 2400 lbs. BIG difference in what you can or can not do! A 10K 5w had the old truck at gvwr before adding occupants, this truck I still have 1600 lbs for occupants etc assuming 25% HW!
Marty
Marty
RE: Payload vs Tow rating?
Issue as Dougie pointed out, payload can be gone before you even hook up a trailer. If the rig is at gvw before hooking up a trailer, you have NO trailer capacity! My family of 6 was a bit heavier than dougie, when my 4 kids were adult size teens, we pushed teh scales into the 1200 lb range. Pretty much putting his burb at gvwr BEFORE adding the 600-700 lbs of hw of our trailer. Not to mention the two alaskan malamutes and crates in the bed. Sometimes a canoe, 3500wt generator, 6 bikes, gear for the canoe. It was not uncommon for my CC K3500 to be in the 9-9500 lb range, and it weighed 6600 empty! so 3000 lbs added to my truck, and I was only pulling a 6500lb trailer with up to about 750 lbs of hw depending how it was loaded for what type of trip etc!
Here is a pic of my 88 ext cab, but had the same trailer behind a 96 CC! you can see my sons at age 6 or so, the dog crates, did not have teh canoe, but add a rack, tool box etc......adds a few lbs!
http://imageshack.us/a/img18/204/88k3500andttsept91.jpg width=640
Reality is, if you talk tow capacity, you need to discuss payload! as you can not have one, with out the other! Kinda like HP and torque. For our motors, you can not go forward with out both!
marty
RE: 1986 Chevy G20 3/4 ton, 6.2 Diesel
Then depending upon the view you have, the 700r4 is not a strike against you. The TH400 or 4l80e WOULD be imho. WHile those tranny's are stronger per say, they have a 2.48 first gear vs the 700r4 having a 3.10 first gear. Your rig has an overall low lower than a 4.56 geared rig with a th400/4l80e! so much better gearing to get going. Along with if you got a really good rebuild done. the 700r4 will out perform a stock th400/4l80e.
The real issue is the 120-130hp your motor has! If you can rebuild it, to a 6.5 with a turbo, you can get into the low 200hp range, the trans will handle it if rebuilt properly, and you will have no issues with a 6-7K trailer!
Marty
RE: 1986 Chevy G20 3/4 ton, 6.2 Diesel
Considering that motor has maybe 120-130hp, and mid 200lbft of torque. It is speced equal to a 305v8 at the time. IIRC 3.42 gears are around 10K gcwr, do not remember if they went up 500 or 1000 lbs per GR. Either way, 4.10's might net you 11 or 12K lbs total.
The main goal of the 6.2, was to be a high MPG 305 v8. THe 6.5td was to be a cross between a 350 and 454 of that time frame.
Then if you have a 6 lug 2500, that is IIRC maybe 7200 gvwr max. You had to order a 3500 to get the 8lug 8600 gvwr setup.
If you are on a level, you might do ok. It takes about 105-115 hp to motovate 15K lbs at 60mph. That is about your limit frankly!
Marty
RE: Fifth Wheel Capabilities Truck
This motor has 300plus HP, and it only has teh ability to tow 10K lbs?!?!?!?!? yeah right! This setup has better gearing the the 4sp trannies with 4.10'S! I'd pull my 12K equipment trailer with this truck. My guess is a 12K 5w will tow easier yet, much easier than a TT would, due to better aerodynamics of the setup! Frankly, as long as you get a hard sided smooth walled trailer, with no frontbed room slide, I'd go for it! You should be under the axel wt ratings etc too!
Yeah you will be turning some rpms, like 4K going up hills, in the gear below direct, not that the 6sp has a direct from what I understand....still, you will be in 3rd or 4th gear going up steeper hills, probably in the 50 mph range. The only person that gets tired, is one not wanting to hear a motor turn some rpms! My dmax sounds horrible with a 25K total load going up a 4% grade with the pedal to the metal doing 55 at 3000 rpm. Would imagine the same sound at 5K+ rpm in a as rig.
As long as you can stay under axel wt ratings, the truck will handle the trailer fine! A dmax is rated higher, so the truck etc will handle the trailer.
Marty
RE: 3/4 ton Duramax capacity
The variable I find time after time that affects the factory payload rating is the wheels and the tires on the different trucks.
How do you know this? Do you work for GM/Ford/Ram?
If you look at the specs typically, and truly dig into them, you will find, that the tires and rims are usually the lowest wt carrying denominator. Even then, the axel and gvw ratings get derated per say in light duty vehicles, and even some of the lighter medium duty rigs.
Go to class 6 and above trucks, the gvwr IS the sum of the axel ratings, and many times, like my mdt, the tires were the weak link. It is common on class 8's to have a 25K axel, springs, but tires are good to 20-21K total. As on can only go to that total per axel and be legal!
For a GM 2500HD as the OP isasking about, the tires are typicaly 6100 total, springs 6400, axel houseing around 10K. My dually, the tires are potentially on the rear, the higher number at 10K at 80 lbs, but only 8500 at 65 as recomended, the springs to 9K, axel same as the 2500 at around/over 10K.
Front axel on the other hand, typically it is not the tires and rims, but the axel and springs are the weak link per say.
Marty
RE: 1T Pickup special rules and regulations?
One thing that should be noted. If you are over 10K lbs total, be it a half ton, mini truck with trailer, or just plain towing a trailer.......SOME area's you will have to follow the truck rules, such as chaining up in winter where chains are required for rigs over 10K. That is ANYBODY! Some places you can go into the carpool lanes, others you can not.
These are two things to think about if you are over 10K total wt! If you are registered as I was with my old 9200 gvwr truck at 12K, again, you have to follow the over 10K rules on some things! Your registered wt for the truck, not door tag can also mean what rules you have to follow in some instances too!
Marty
RE: Towing Shouldn't Be This Difficult - Help Needed
The D rated tires you haveon there should handle ANY load you get. 285s in a D rating should be around 3400-3500 per tire, so on par with an E rated 265-75-16 which probably came with the truck. OR higher than an E rated 235-85-16 which would have been the other tire, and those are only good to 3000 lbs or so. I personally on my last truck, found no difference in D vs E rated tires for the loads I hauled and pulled. As I was typically never loaded such that I neededmore than 60-65 lbs on the rear. I ran 50-55 on the front ALL the time.
I would also say as others have said, your truck needs some front end work! The 200 or so lbs lost off the FA should not make up that much difference in handling. I found with my 3500 SW GM, and my dually, it takes about 350-400 before I notice a BIG difference in handling. You should also be able to tow that trailer with out using a WD system, and everything will pull and go straight. I could pull a 12K trailer with my last truck, do so with my dually with no WD and handling is fine!
You might also look at the alignment of the trailer while looking at the trucks alignment also. Both could be out, which would cause the moving issues more so than the hitch adjustments. My personal philosophy is, get the truck and trailer pulling/going straight, then add the sway/wd bars as a safety measure. Too many rely on bars, as if a bar falls off, as I have had, your rig will not be uncontrollable if you rely on the bars! There is no reason to spend $3G on a hensley. Once you get everything going straight, and if you feel you want a bit more anti sway proection if all hecko happens, then buy a hensley!
Marty
RE: over on RAWR occassionally
I would say the issue is the springs, not the tires. Being over on the springs is not as bad as being over on the tire from my experience. I would toy with adding a leaf to the spring pack, air bags, or completly redoing the spring pack would be my first thought and preference. BUT< that is also the how I use my truck, better to have springs generally speaking than air bags. For some that carry truck campers, air bags would be a better option.
For the OP....not sure I would worry about it, since he has a 350, the issue of the overheating RA as mentioned by one that had a 1500, is probably not going to happen.
Enjoy the truck, make sure you have a paid for tag that is greater than what you are grossing at, as that will be the issue you will have if pulled over, more than being over the manufacturs ratings. At least that has been the case for me here in Wa st.
Marty
RE: Is this a can of worms?
MOST rigs today have more tow capacity than they did when I first bought a new rig in 81. An 8 lug 2500 came with typically a 300CI I6 with maybe 105-110hp and 250-300 lb ft of torque. A BB had 200hp and just over 300 lb ft of torque. Today std motors in an 8lug rig seem to have 250-300hp, and mid 300 lbs of torque, with diesel options of 300-400hp and upwards of 800 lb ft of torque. Since tow capacity is more or less based on power, yes, ANY rig today has more potential than in the past.
BUT< one still has to deal with what the chassis can handle, or how much payload you have to work with. Even then, a typical 8lug rig has more payload today than they did in the past, so again, more potential for the ability to tow a higher wt trailer. This is also true of the 5 or 6 lug half tons too. Even the mini trucks have motors that are bigger and better than the 76 toyota I had back in HS.
I do not know what you are towing, I have my own personal limits to tow with a given truck. It is not what the manufactures rate things at. SOme cases I am lower, others higher. I'll personally go to about 2x the GRAWR of a given rig. I find that over this amount, the trailer starts to wag the truck per say in some instances. So for a typical 8 lug 2500, with a 6100-6800 RA, that is about 12-14K lbs of trailer. SOme are rated to over this. One can pull over this and be safe! That is just my personal limit. I would have no issues pulling that with todays SB8 motors either. As the trannies are better, motor stronger etc than BB motors of yor!
Marty
RE: Rotating tires on a dually
If you need to ask, then you're probably better off bringing it to a mechanic.
Not sure if that is correct, it may be the OP has rotated tires themselves for many years, but having not had a dually, does not know the general how to rotate. Then there are some like myself, that do not rotate tires, as I run tractions on the rear, and a hwy on the front. I also do not balance my rear dually tires either! THe fronts are done.
THere are a couple of x style and combo side to side ways of rotating dually's. Issues become that the inside of a rim becomes the outside, and things look ugly after a bit as insides seem to rust a bit before the outside of the rim does. OR, if you have aluminum outers, the fronts do not go to the rear, or rear to the front as they are finished on one side. So you then have to dismount and remount, balance etc the tires.
I am not sure there is a true right or wrong per say, only what will work for you in your particular circumstance.
marty
RE: Why idle?
THere is an anti idle rule up here too! Not sure if it is state passed, or city passed. You can idle per say if you have a tank truck that is using the main motor as the pump, or it has a box lift for a person to get to power lines, trees etc to trim. Even the bridges that go up have signs asking to shut down when the bridge is up etc. At least in the Greater seattle area these types of things exist.
Marty
RE: 3/4 ton Duramax capacity
Power wise, the truck should do fine. At some point in time, ie about 12K total, a 9200 gvwr gm does get a bit screwy, in that one will be hitting bump stops on the rear when going over some speed bumps, or if you hit a hole at speed, then start going up quickly, ie a river crossing or equal in a valley....
x2. My 2500HD drives and handles pretty good at 10K. With the 1000 lb dump insert and 4K of gravel it gets pretty squirrely. The worse was 2 full pallets of wet sod on top of the dump insert, don't know what it weighed but was pretty heavy. Acceleration and braking were always more than adequate.
Wet sod can be upwards of 3000-3500 a pallet! I've had 2 pallets of wall block that weigh in at 3200 or so a piece in both the 96 with original springs, and some new 8400 lb capacity springs, and the dually I currently own. The 6400 original springs were the squirliest, the sw with 8400 lb springs and the dually were onpar! With some advantage to the dually, more because of the 4 disk braks vs the front disk/rear drums of the 96. Power wise,I would hope a 300+ dmax would out do a 185hp 6.5td! BUT< if I had to go up a steep hill, ie over 24%, the dmax would be stalled out, the 6.5td do to better overall gearing, was good to just over 30%, both at 20K lbs!
Marty
RE: Extended cab vs crewcab
Get a reg cab 2500 and you wil have dang near the payload ofa dualy. At least my 2500 has 380 lbs, my dully 3500 has 4100.
I would go LB before a sb of any cab.
Marty
