1999 dodge cummins 1 ton auto 3.54 rear end....seal on doorframe says: FAWR 4500#,,,RAWR 7500# total 10500#.....actual weight with 2 passengers, 335#, and full fuel tank, FA 3280#, RA 4280#, total 7560#....well under factory rating...NOW with fifth wheel hooked up and ready for travel, clothes, food, approx 10 gal water, empty holding tanks, same passengers and full fuel tank actual weights as follows...FA 4060#, RA 6180#, total 10240#..still under factory... i think this equals pin weight of 2680#.....trailer with both axles on scale, 10000# even...this equals 20240#...the book on the 1999 calls for 20000# GCVWR....the book on the 2002 calls for more....what did they do from 99 to 02 to increase the GCVWR???? just paperwork??? the trucks are identical....anyway, the truck pulls the trailer at speed limits and stops it easily...trailer rides extremely well..have a reese 16K rocker hitch....did i weight it all properly????
2004 1/2 Stock Dodge Quad Cab, Cummins, Auto, 3.73 Rear End with synthetic lube,Firestone air bags, 2003 Newmar Mountain Aire 38KSWB, triple slide, tandem duals, electric over hydraulic disk brakes.........
Yor rig weights are almost identical to mine, except when I weighed my 5er I filled the fresh water tank and half filled the black tank, just to put it into the max config I would be traveling at. Came out to 20,200 total........close enough to 20,000 for me. If your axles and tires aren't loaded over their weight limits, and neither vehicle exceeds it's GVWR I don't see a problem. GCWR has no industry or DOT standard and isn't printed anywhere but in brochures and maybe in the fine print of your owners manual. IMO it is a worthless number.
Funny how much that GCWR number meant to the crash investigators who were investigating the car accident that killed my mother. I keep hearing from people who think the number means nothing, only because they don't realize that it is one of the specs crash investigators use to determine if a rig is overweight at the time of accident.
Luckily, my dad was under his GCWR when they weighed the wreck, or they would have charged him with "negligent homicide" for knowingly exceeding the limits of his tow vehicle resulting in the death of my mother. This was told to me by the investigator himself after he questioned me about the accident, as I was an eye-witness.
How would you guys like to have something like that hanging over your head?
-Jim
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
Ya know...I don't know what to believe. I bought my F550 because I was led to believe that if something happened (such as Jim's tragedy above) that I could possibly be liable if I was over the limits. After I bought my truck almost everyone has told me that nothing will ever happen.
And then I see Jim's post with first hand experience that exceeding your limits could result in civil and perhaps criminal liability. If this could ever happen (even the slightest bit) it isn't worth it to me to be over weight.
However, I would agree with the posts above that being 200 lbs or so over the GCVW doesn't seen that important though. I'm sure there is some point where the "straw" breaks the towing capacities back, but this shouldn't be it.
Caddy, it is sad anytime a person loses a loved one and I think especially in the manner you describe. However, Fed DOT regs do not address
GCWR,only GAWR (gross axle wt rating) therefore unless your state DOT has wording different the GCW would have been a nonfactor as long as the GAW was within prescribed limits.
fred
'05' F350 PSD 4x4 DRW CC, Lariat luxury group,torqueshift 5-speed auto,13k GVWR/26k GCWR,Tow Boss Pkg (4.30 LS axle),Tow Command Sys (trlr brk control), adjustable brake and fuel pedals, Mag Hytek tranny and diff covers, EGT,tranny and diff temp gauges,98 gal crossbed Transfer Flow fuel tank and Mobile Suites 36CK3 5th whl w/TrailAir pin box and centerpoint susp.
RET USMC;NRA Lifetime endowment member
Caddy,
I'd like to offer my condolences for your mother, but I have difficulty in believing that the investigator was looking at the GCWR.......mainly because I don't know where he would find it. GVWR on the other hand is a subject that an investigator would look at because it is mandated by federal law and was posted on vehicles since at least 1967. I know this because I have a 67 Chev C20 and it's GVWR is 7500 pounds. There are no axle limits or any other weight ratings on the data plate. A friend of mine is an accident investigator for the local police force and also teaches accident reconstruction at universities throughout Texas. He is familiar with my rig and has hooked his boat to the back of my 5er on one occasion to go to a lake a couple hundred miles south of here. I asked him if he would look at GCWR if my truck and trailer(s) were involved in a wreck. The answer was no, because there is no data base to determine what a light pick-up GCWR is. GVWR is on the data plates of trucks and trailers (including my boat trailer) but there is no way to determine if the weight of the entire mass exceeded some limit.
GCWR is unregulated and is determined at the discretion of the manufacturer with an unknown formula. Need more info? Dodge 3500, club cab, 12 valve diesel, 5-speed manual,3.54 axle ratio. 1996 GCWR 18,000; 1997, 20,0000 except California models which were 16,000; 1998, back to 18,000 until the 24 valve engines were introduced, then 20,000 again. Max tow ratings make even less sense, same truck in 97 is 11,900 California or not. The truck weighs a lot less than 8100 pounds so what happened to the old saw about max trailer weight being GCWR minus actual truck weight?
To make a long post even longer, all I'll say is do what you want. If you want to use a 20% safety margin....be my guest. Personally I'll abide by the GVWR, axle load ratings, tire load ratings, and length limits but will use GCWR as purely a guideline.
well one thing i know is that nowhere on my rig do i excede any of the axle weight ratings...not on the truck or on the trailer....i agree about the gcwr...it is IMHO set up by the mfg to take the heat off the rear end and spring limitations..but then again who knows for sure...i doubt even the auto engineers are absolutely sure after their designs are run and rerun again by the "consumer designers" before being put on the market....remember, "pretty is as pretty does" lol that sounds like a movie line doesn't it....thnaks for sharing the info...
LD is a crash investigator by trade. Don't know if he reads this particular category, but I'm sure if I post a note in General RVing he'll take a look (if you'd like). Maybe he can give some accurate info as to whether or not weight is taken into consideration that much. My hunch is that it is, at least for commercial vehicles. Living near two notoriously bad highways (Rt. 128/95 & Rt. 3) that handle a lot of truck traffic, it seems many truckers have been cited for being overweight following accidents.
Because I live in such a sue-happy state, I don't want to be so much as a pound over. My husband's already faced one lawsuit because of an accident (insurance co. settled out of court even though he wasn't at fault in any way) and I am not willing to give any edge to a schmuck lawyer and soft jury that doesn't understand what all these big settlements mean to insurance rates. I just wish we had concrete proof somewhere if the manufacturers numbers are really real.
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