Quote: why not spend that $5-6k price of entry on a commuter car?
Because then I'm driving a roller skate instead of a truck. Why spend lots of money on a truck and keep it parked most of the time?
Lasts longer that way? Why spend lots of money on a truck to tow the expensive trailer and spend lots more money on fuel when you're not towing the trailer?
My question was for those who mainly use the fuel mileage argument.
Personally, I'm not a fan of driving a behemoth every day. They're harder to park, ride worse, handle like poo, get bad mileage (even diesel) and are more expensive to repair when they fail.
If you bought your truck to tow the trailer, why not just use it when you're towing the trailer? Otherwise, you're spending loads of cash on a fashion statement.
Either way, I posted that as a solution for those who buy a diesel for the sole reason of saving money.
My 7000+lb truck gets better mileage than my Caddy, about the same as my Caprice. I know of nobody who had managed to wear out a diesel truck...my 92 F-350 is still running with close to 400,000 miles. Liz's K-5 Blazer is rotted far beyond reasonable repair, but runs perfectly at 195,000 miles.
John
1984 Ford B-700 school bus conversion, Thomas body
A bunch of other vehicles
3 nutty cats (Maya, Vierna, Briza)
One lazy dog (Marmaduke)
One wife (Liz)
"A wasted youth is better by far than a wise and productive old age"
-Jim Steinman
the number of dedicated diesel powered trucks that just tow a RV is but a drop in the bucket of real world diesel truck use. I bought the Cummins just for those higher mpgs (21-23 highway commute) on my 600+ mile a week commute and other duties other than just to pull a RV. Most others that live out here do the same. A second reliable car is to big of a cost especially keeping it running and certainlly doesn't make cents or sense for my use or others that live out here. Now if you live in town and have a short commute a second car may make cents for you. My reasons for owning a diesel are mine and your reason for not owning one are yours. They certianly make cents for me.
JIM
'03 2500 Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs
'97 Park Avanue 28' with two slides
JIMNLIN wrote: the number of dedicated diesel powered trucks that just tow a RV is but a drop in the bucket of real world diesel truck use. I bought the Cummins just for those higher mpgs (21-23 highway commute) on my 600+ mile a week commute and other duties other than just to pull a RV. Most others that live out here do the same. A second reliable car is to big of a cost especially keeping it running and certainlly doesn't make cents or sense for my use or others that live out here. Now if you live in town and have a short commute a second car may make cents for you. My reasons for owning a diesel are mine and your reason for not owning one are yours. They certianly make cents for me.
JIM
There is no doubt that many people use their trucks for things other than just towing an RV, and I didn't mean to imply that. There were, however, a lot of people bragging about their truck's unloaded mileage. This means they're not hauling loads in it, which means any vehicle would be just as capable (many more capable).
I would say that if you have a really short commute to work, a commuter car makes ZERO sense. Why pay $5-6k, extra registration, insurance, etc to save a couple of bucks.
For those that have 600+mile/week commutes, it's more than worth it if all they're doing is driving to work in it and sitting in a cube all day (which many of us do).
My point is Ford/Dodge/GM built these trucks to haul heavy loads, not sit in traffic carrying a whopping 200 lbs worth of payload (one person). I see a lot of 5'er/WD equipped (which tells me RV for the most part) diesel 3/4+ tons driving to work empty save for one guy in a suit here in SoCal. Makes me wonder how many of these people need to be commuting in their large, thirsty 3/4+ ton vehicles.
Either way, we begin to digress. On to beating the dead horse!
I hestitate to chime in on this debate because although I have been towing boat trailers for 10+ years (8000#-9500#) I am very new to travel trailers. My 06 Explorer Ltd 4.6l 4wd (rated to 7200#) pulls my scale weighed 8000# boat/trailer just fine in and out of congested city traffic, over the road in through the hills. It can pull it up the steep ramps without going to 4wd lo like the 98 Explorer 5.0 AWD did before it (didn't have low). I started pulling a heavy 27" boat (guesstimate 9000) on triaxle trailer back in 95 and when my 78 Econoline ext conv 250 van w/460 (rated 8800) got to expensive to maintain I rented the Uhaul Chev bare pick up trucks with the 4.8L 2wd and it did fine (well some tire slippage on ramp if boat wasn't all the way fwd) so I never subscribed to the bigger=equal better. The other TV on ramps would be diesel duallies pulling a 18-20" boat that barely weighed 3000# and I was in a single well pick up pulling a very heavy sturdy built 27". Of course I always got stares adn now especially with the Explorers I would get the popular "You can tow that with that?". My boats would be loaded to the gills and all tanks full and the trucks would have 3 adults 2 kids and all that we needed for the day and when the temps were over 90 I drove with the a/c on (od off). I really hestitated considering going larger TV when I got my 31BHDS empty weigh of 7500# cause I pulled my buddies 8500+ boat/trailer combo out of the water through the city streets to the next state. I got ahold of this forum and narrowed my affordable choices down to the Sub 6.0 and the Ex I didn't like the gas consumption of the 8.1 and they are so few. I drove 2 Burbs with the 6.0 and they felt weaker than my Exp and when I drove the Ex it seemed more stout and solid just out of sheer size but it also didn't seem that peppy but from years of driving commercial diesel straight trucks I knew that pulling power doesn't always equate to off the line acceleration. I pulled home the TT with my Exp just to see how it would handle so I would know how much more power I would need. It pulled it ok to me its just that the rear end was way low even with the dealer installed and adjusted Equalizer hitch. None of the boats I pulled cause more than 1 or 2 inch drop of my bumper and this thing had my nose in the air. I then looked for a good clean Excursion but diesels for less than 16K are hard to come by and after reading all the V-10 supporters here saying its a hard towing vehicle I took the plunge. After finding one 2 hrs away for about 8K w/ext warr and spending almost half the price on getting everything straight I was really disappointed the first pull to the trailer dealership to get the hitch head readjusted. The Oasis said it had the 4.30 so unless one of the previous owners changed that it has what many profess to be the best towing combination. I kept saying to myself I should have gotten a diesel (don't hate me v-10 supporters). I will admit the Ex platform is much more stable to tow compared to my Exp but its hp to weight ratio doesn't seem that good to me. I get about 2100-2200 rpms at 60 mph on stock sized replacement tires, does that sound right for the 4.30? After going 80 miles with it I did get a little more adjusted but I believe it will either be the Banks kit or maybe a smaller trailer. I can't see going up steep inclines with this combo and I know you have to rev it I just don't like hearing all those rpms. I had it put on the FOrd computer twice. It gets about 14-16 on the expressway on the lie o meter at 60 mph, hadn't gone steady enough for the hand calculations. I drove the Expeditions before as an alternative and they disappointed me but to be frank the seat of the pants pull felt a little stronger. I've had the best mechanic here (service writer sends his mother's and friends's car to) go through everything that this forum suggested and even a few things I thought of so unless something new comes up that can be fixed I will be sniffing "tha fumes" myself.
00 Excursion Limited 4X4 V-10 4.30 ratio
Prodigy controller, Equalizer hitch
08 Jayco 31 BHDS G2
06 Ford Explorer Limited 4X4 4.6L (pulls boat)
1 Wife 3 kids
97 Regal Commodore 258 w/twin 3.0's (8K on trailer)
79 Piper Arrow IV (sold for TT)
The added cost of the diesel engine up front makes it a bit hard to justify. It will usually get better mileage than the gas engine though. I have heard the break even point for most diesel vs gas vehicles is somewhere around 200,000 miles. That being said, I drive a Chevy with a Duramax, mostly because of the power, but also because of the mileage. I get 16 to 18 when towing my PUP. The same when empty. My last gas engine was a Chevy V-8 (don't remember size) and it was VERY whimpy. Mileage was not quite as good either. I have no complaints with the diesel, where I did with the performance of the gas, so I'll stick with diesels for now.
Yup the price of diesel has gone up big time no question. I wonder how much one will pay over a 10 - 15 yr period totally...I mean fuel and vehicle costs and who will come out ahead..?
There's not too many gasoline driven cars/trucks that will get over 200,000+ miles. Yet there's plenty of diesels that have well over that # and still going strong.
Quote: I know of nobody who had managed to wear out a diesel truck...
So yea, I might have to pay significant $$ now for fuel & maintenance & maybe some new foam for the seats & maybe a water pump and a few sets of tires etc, but I'll still be towing with this unit in 10 years and then, after it's got better than 350,000 miles on it. Bet on it. (I drive 35k annually)
So no need to buy another new vehicle for what, 35+K dollars by then..?? A bargain in me eyes byes.!
...and besides, ya can't make BioGasoline.!
.."appleseed" away. (research that term)
cheers, Stk
Teresa-Meagan-Kaylee '06 GMC DMax CCSB w/a lil 'Xtra Jam 2006KZ KY-Yachty CT22 done comfy.!
Reese 750WD w/DualCam Sway: 50W Solar
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