I know somebody with one of those $99 2-stroke units from pepboys
its 'quieter' yeah less noise than my 3500 champion
the new versions are NOT bad.. and if you use 2 stroke motorcycle injector oil, instead of cheaper weed eater oil, they also make less smoke than '2 strokes' of old
I still prefer 4 stroke engines for gennies , But like other things, they have improved
any 2 stroke that is allowed to sit for long periods so that the volatile part of the fuel mix evaporates, is going to be harder to start, but if used reguraly and put away with a clean dry carb, they will not give you problems
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MrWizard wrote: I know somebody with one of those $99 2-stroke units from pepboys
its 'quieter' yeah less noise than my 3500 champion
the new versions are NOT bad.. and if you use 2 stroke motorcycle injector oil, instead of cheaper weed eater oil, they also make less smoke than '2 strokes' of old
I still prefer 4 stroke engines for gennies , But like other things, they have improved
any 2 stroke that is allowed to sit for long periods so that the volatile part of the fuel mix evaporates, is going to be harder to start, but if used reguraly and put away with a clean dry carb, they will not give you problems
I have not seen a 2-stroke that is EPA or NPS (fire arrestor) approved. Definately not CARB approved. This does not mean they do not exist, but I have not noted that certification.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee, Mechanicsville, VA
2009 Cedar Creek 34SATS 5th Wheel - GMC 3500 dually
Generator Collection: Champion 40008 - ELM3000 - Kipor 2000Ti - Kawasaki 1400 - Champion 7,800W LPG (Home Back Up)
professor95 wrote: I have not seen a 2-stroke that is EPA or NPS (fire arrestor) approved. Definately not CARB approved. This does not mean they do not exist, but I have not noted that certification.
Probably can be done, but there seems to be a push to get 4 stroke engines on things such as weedeaters and outboard engines. In fact, I just tested a 4 stroke weedeater today.
Bob R.
Bob, Martha, and Matt
'95 Coachmen Catalina Sport 275QB
oh, and Tucker, the Toy Poodle Toprudder.com
i don't think there ever will be a 2-stroke with CARB approval , unless it is made with an alloy engine that will seize up, unless pure synthetic injector oil is used. AND that possibility seems unlikely
pure synthetic burns clean with NO little to NO hydro carbon emission
Following the the perfessor's advice, I walked into a local Schucks last nite, and bought a Champion 42412 for $199.
Those of you who have a 42412, what RV appliances are you able to run with it? We mainly got it to keep our 2 6volt batteries charged while drycamping. (I'm assuming it will charge batteries)?
Larry
2005 Roadtrek 170
2006 Rainier travel trailer
1965 Chevy Van
2008 HHR
The following describes my latest enclosure. It incorporates some of the ideas of Brad, Professor Randy, Floyd and others who have contributed their knowledge on enclosures. I posted a sketch of my design on Brad’s enclosure forum about 6 months ago. Materials were “re-purposed” as much as possible while building this iteration. It has been in use for the last couple of months. I concluded that this enclosure was good to about 100 degrees ambient at 2000 watts generator output. This is enough to run my 5ver’s 15k BTU A/C unit. At this ambient temperature, it is necessary to shut the AC off to run the microwave. The combination of the two requires about 3200 watts. Testing showed that my Champion genset reached its maximum output of 2900 watts at 100 degrees ambient. Running both loads together resulted in the engine rpm lugging down and the voltage dropping from 120v to 103v. Frequency also was reduced due to the loss of engine rpm but was not measured.
Now, the disclaimer:
THIS ENCLOSURE WAS BUILT SOLELY FOR THE USE OF THE WRITER. OTHERS WHO ATTEMPT TO BUILD A SIMILAR ENCLOSURE DO SO AT THEIR OWN RISK. VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN AND USE OF THE ENCLOSURE INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO AIRFLOW, GENERATOR LOAD, AMBIENT TEMPERATURE, ALTITUDE, EXHAUST TEMPS, AND NOISE ABATEMENT WILL AFFECT THE ABILITY OF THE ENCLOSURE TO SAFELY HOUSE THE GENERATOR.
The main reason for this latest iteration was to move the gas tank out of the enclosure and have it located in a lower temperature environment. Last winter my wife’s microwave oven decided to quit working. I disassembled the corpse for useful parts. The outer housing was steel measuring 25” long, 17” deep and 14” high or just the right size to house the engine and generator head of my Champion genset. The fuel tank and control panel were raised 6” to allow clearance to the top of the new enclosure. Miscellaneous openings in the rear panel of the re-purposed microwave housing were covered with metal foil tape except for one opening located below of the engine air cleaner inlet to allow intake of cool engine combustion air.
The fuel hose and electrical wiring were routed through the rear panel of the enclosure. The rear panel separates from the rest of the enclosure and stays with the generator when the enclosure is removed. This allows for quick removal of the enclosure for any work needed on the genset or to operate the generator without the enclosure. With the enclosure installed, the front enclosure panel slides sideways to allow for checking the oil, operating the choke and using the recoil starter.
To improve airflow and reduce cooling air re-circulation, the bottom of the enclosure was closed and air intake ducts were fabricated for the engine and generator head. The generator head duct inlet also had a booster fan incorporated to improve the cooling airflow through the generator head. Tests confirmed that the 300 cfm exhaust fan produced a negative pressure inside of the enclosure. Enclosure openings and clearance slots were sealed to force almost all of the air to enter through the cooling air ducts except for the air cleaner intake air opening in the rear of the enclosure.
The exhaust piping inside the compartment was insulated with high temp fiberglass insulation re-purposed from an oven to reduce heat load in the compartment. The muffler was insulated and wrapped to reduce heat transfer and noise. A piece of 1/4” thick hardbacker board was added between the insulated exhaust pipe and the genhead to reduce the exhaust heat load on the generator windings.
Tests were conducted to measure the capabilities of this enclosure. These were completed at an average ambient temperature of 98 degrees at 1470 feet above sea level. The unit was in a shaded environment to eliminate sun load, which in Arizona can add 30 degrees to the surface temperature of an enclosure or fuel tank. Electrical loads were 2600 watts and 1600 watts for the first test and 2200 watts for the second test.
During the first test, the generator ran for 30 minutes at 2600 watts before it started to stumble. The load was immediately and arbitrarily reduced to 1600 watts by turning off the leaf blower and leaving the air compressor load running. The test continued for another 30 minutes without any further problems with the maximum temperatures dropping and stabilizing. At 1600 watts, the air temp above the engine stabilized at 160 degrees, above the genhead at 140 degrees and enclosure exit air at 150 degrees. Test time was 60 minutes under load, 15 minutes running with cooling fans load (110watts) and 15 minutes with the engine off and cooling fans running. Enclosure cooling was extremely effective after the engine was stopped and the cooling fans continued running.
The second test was completed at an electrical load of 2200 watts. It was terminated after temps were stable for 4 consecutive readings taken at 5-minute intervals. Total test time was 45 minutes under load and 15 minutes for cool down with the engine off and the enclosure cooling fans running. The stabilized engine air, genhead air and exiting air temperatures were 156, 145 and 152 degrees respectively measured in the same locations as the first test.
The fuel tank temperature after the tests was between 110 and 118 degrees. Under direct sun load, it would have been in the 140 degrees range and probably 150 degrees if it was still mounted inside of the generator enclosure.
Temperature graphs and other data from the tests are included along with the pictures. The pictures were taken while the generator and enclosure were mounted on a temporary test stand base.
This design was a success for me in that it allowed me to operate my RV air conditioning at 100 degrees ambient with the enclosed generator. At a 75-80 degree ambient, both the A/C and the microwave can be run together for short periods probably due to reduced air conditioning power requirement and increased generator output. The maximum electrical load at high ambient temps should be limited to about 1800-2000 watts. My 5ver’s A/C and enclosure cooling fans use about 1800 watts at 100 degrees ambient. Of course, the refrigerator and hot water tank are on propane and the battery charger is turned off while the generator is being used for the A/C at high ambient temperatures.
Someone may have noticed that I continue to run the 120v cooling fans after stopping the generator. This is accomplished by using a 2500-watt inverter and RV batteries. The inverter is wired into the generator control panel. The 3 way toggle switch on the panel acts as a transfer switch with one position for the 120v generator, center position off, and the other position for the 110v inverter. This also allows me to use the inverter to run the microwave and entertainment system in the RV through the same wiring that the generator uses.
Sound reduction was not a priority with this enclosure. I am satisfied that it is in the low 60’s dBA (by subjective evaluation). If I would try to lower the noise level further, I would add ¼” thick hardbacker to all of the enclosure’s surfaces. This would add about 20 lbs. to the enclosure.
Future improvements will include a 160-degree enclosure air temp automatic generator shut down switch and improved exhaust piping temperature insulation. Brad noted that his exhaust pipe insulation was cool enough to touch. Mine isn’t. If I can get the insulation surface temperature cool enough (like Brad’s), I will remove the hardbacker heat barrier between the exhaust and the genhead.
Finally, I will consider switching to a dual fuel system of propane and gasoline following Professor Randy’s instructions in his propane conversion thread.
Now, here is a request for temperature data.
The generator head temperatures were measured during the second test just after the 2200-watt load was removed. The temperature was a respectable 123 degrees near the AVR but 190 degrees on the sheet metal windings cover near the top of the genhead by the long mounting bolt on the exhaust side of the genhead.
I am requesting that forum readers with the Champion 3500 watt generator in its original factory configuration measure the temperature of their genhead at this same location (see picture for the exact location) after about 30 minutes of operation and either send their temp info to me in a PM or just report it in this forum.
I would like to confirm that the 190-degree temp at this location is typical of the OEM configuration due to both the engine and muffler heat load on the genhead. If this temp is not typical, I will address the exhaust pipe insulation improvement soon.
2600/1600 WATT DATA
2200 WATT DATA
GENERATOR OVERVIEW
COOLING EXHAUST FAN
FUEL TANK ROTATED
BACK OF ENCLOSURE
HOT AIR EXIT (ORANGE)
EXHAUST PIPE INSULATION
ENGINE AIR INTAKE DUCT
DUCT MOUNTING
GENHEAD AIR INTAKE DUCT
GENHEAD AUXILIARY COOLING FAN
GENHEAD HEAT SHIELD
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Bob and Cathy
2002 Montana 3655FL
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison
PullRite 16k Superglide
bobandcat wrote: The following describes my latest enclosure. It incorporates some of the ideas of Brad, Professor Randy, Floyd and others who have contributed their knowledge on enclosures. I posted a sketch of my design on Brad’s enclosure forum about 6 months ago....... (snip)
Extremely well done! A very innovative approach to taking what Brad, Floyd and I have done (others too) and expanding it along with your new ideas into an excellent project. Now, as I prepare to start all over again with the genny install into the new fiver, you have given me new ideas to consider for my coming efforts.
What I found amusing was the use of the microwave enclosure. You see, just yesterday I was playing with an unneeded case from a window air conditioner (similar to the microwave case) to see if it could work as part of an enclosure. Unfortunately, it was not quite large enough. As you know, I am a great fan of "repurposing". I will share though I am curious as to why you did not use the glass see-thru door as your front panel .
I was especially impressed by your graphs and collection of data to establish the authenticity of your work. Your sheet metal fabrication looked pretty darn good for someone without a slip roll, press brake and shear.
You are a smart feller, Bob - no doubt about it! Thank you for sharing with us.
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