...or 'The Quest for the Perfect Tire for a B Van.... ', or "Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S, An Update...". (Warning: Looonng)
My four Geolandar 245-75 x 16 load range E's cost me $585.44, including everything. He threw in the high-pressure valve stems for free. They have a 30-day free trial period, which clinched the deal.
They felt pretty good going home on surface streets, but I later noted a slight pull to the left at higher speeds.
To cure this 'drift', I did as my front-end guy suggested and swapped the front wheels & tires, L and R. Love my cheap electric impact wrench and floor jack! It was quicker & simpler to DIY it than to return to the tire place. It worked, and I won't try to explain it.
Then I loaded the cat up and went out I-40 west about 100 miles, into Tennessee thru the infamous Pigeon River Gorge. Lottsa curves and rough pavement there; a _very_ good test of anything having to do with handling and steering.
Started with the pressures at 80 R and 65 F, and left the rears alone. I lowered the fronts in ~5 psi increments, driving 15-30 miles between each lowering. Quit at about the cold equavalent of ~45 psi, which is 5 less than the door post sticker from H&P suggests, but safe per load / weight charts. At that pressure, it was starting to get more than a bit mushy on the curves, tho' still fine on the straights.
Then I stopped at a truck stop in east Tenn. (free air, $5 for overnight parking, but free for diesel customers) and aired up a bit. Wound up at ~55 psi cold (just confirmed that on actual cold tires), and it drove fine. I'll try going back to 60 later, just for the heck of it, and maybe try lowering the rears to 75.
Notes of possible interest:
The Yokes cured 90% of the steering 'wander' that was so very evident on the Michelins (LTX, both M/S _and_ A/S). They're almost as good at that as the OEM Fireboom Steeltex's were.
The Yokes cured the RT of any tendency to tramline (follow or be disturbed by lenghtwise seams and cracks in the road).
You really have to be alert to note _any_ 'wind push' from trucks, either passing or being passed. Yokes, 9.5; 'stones, 9; Michelins, 6 on the Chevy, 2 on my old Dodge... where passing trucks were a white-knuckle, life-theatening experience (I am totally serious about this).
Previously I could even feel some 'squirming' on the pavement markings on the five-lane below my house when I crossed them downhill under braking. (Yes, really.) That's gone, totally.
The Yokes do have one bad habit. There's more impact transmitted on cross-wise tar seams (expansion joints). I don't find it obnoxious, but it is more noticable than with the Firestones or Michelins. It's definitely a stiffer tire than the Michelins. The Yokes are pretty quiet otherwise, including on just plain rough, checker-cracked pavement.
I haven't tried them in windy conditions, or on wet or snowy pavement yet. The tread pattern is aggressive enough to make me think they'll do OK in wet or snow.
I may ask the guy to re-balance the rears; there's just a tiny bit of vibration that I think is coming from there (I feel it in the floorboard, not the steering wheel). this may just be the stiffer tire, tho'.
I'd _love_ to be able to try the Yokes on my old ill-handling, ill-driving '00 Dodge RT in place of the Michelins; I've got a feeling that they'd cure at least 50% of its problems. Wish I'd had a clue back then.... I just 'assumed' that Michelin made _the_ perfect tire for everything.
To sum it up, I think I'll keep 'em. If nothing else, I'm tired of the issue. This stops just a little short of being a screaming 'two thumbs up' recommendation, but only by a little. We'll see how they do on durability.
Jim, "The fact that no one understands you doesn't necessarily mean that you're an artist."
'06 Tiger CX 'C Minus' on a Silverado 2500HD 4x4, 8.1 & Allison (aka 'Loafer's Glory') www.tigervehicles.com
Quote: The Yokes cured 90% of the steering 'wander' that was so very evident on the Michelins (LTX, both M/S _and_ A/S). They're almost as good at that as the OEM Fireboom Steeltex's were.
Jim. Maybe I'm missing part of the history. I realize you had Michelins that you hated but if you're comparing your Yokes to you OEM's favorably why didn't go for another set of OEM's?
[quote][quote]
Jim. Maybe I'm missing part of the history. I realize you had Michelins that you hated but if you're comparing your Yokes to you OEM's favorably why didn't go for another set of OEM's?[/quote]
The OEM 'stones, at least of that vintage, had a disturbingly strong reputation on this board and elsewhere of shucking their entire tread, in both class B's and C's, usually in rear axle use.
Jim, "Just give me the chocolate, and nobody gets hurt."
Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.
So far with 14,000 miles in 10 months I'm extremely please with my OEM Bridgestones. I could possibly be swapping them out for at least 265 75R 16s when to get a little more ground clearance after the 4WD conversion. If I make that decision, I'll be in a quest for a good all around tire for road and sand. There's a gentleman on the yahoo 4x4 Van group that highly recommends Yokohama Geolander AT+ II just for exactly my purposes.
Handbasket, Many thanks for your report on the tires. Tires are very expensive and we all want to get the best value for our money , so lets all keep the reports on tires alive on this forum. Bob & Jane (radio man 7.262)
I suffered the same problems on the new Michelin M/S and switched to the XPS Michelins which has all steel belts and the problem was corrected. I was tempted to switch to another brand but Costco/Michelin warranteed the M/S.
So far with 14,000 miles in 10 months I'm extremely please with my OEM Bridgestones. I could possibly be swapping them out for at least 265 75R 16s when to get a little more ground clearance after the 4WD conversion. If I make that decision, I'll be in a quest for a good all around tire for road and sand. There's a gentleman on the yahoo 4x4 Van group that highly recommends Yokohama Geolander AT+ II just for exactly my purposes.
Tim, My immediate thought was that the 265's wouldn't fit, since the OEM 245's almost rub in my front fenderwells... Then I banged the side of my head, realizing that clearance will be no problem with your straight-axle 4x4 conversion.... You should have adequate highway torque to pull the taller tire, since your RT has the 6.0. Off-road, low range will compensate nicely.
I found my Geolandar brochure (finally), and I noticed that they also have the AT+II in an LT285/75R16, rated as a Load Range D, but with 3,305 bs @ 65 lbs (305 # / tire more than the 265). Looks like it's 0.9" wider, and 1.2" taller. Might be worth considering.
My experience with beach running was very little and long ago, but the wisdom I think I recall was that a wide, smooth-treaded tire was the thing to have. I remember some sand buggy jeeps on the Outer Banks running what looked aircraft tires, with just 3-4 straight grooves.
Anyway, I guess you're about due to get your rig back from the converter; keep us posted, by all means! I bet there are several magazine articles possible, which could help pay for the conversion....
Jim, "'Tis better to have loved and lost, than to have to live with the psycho b*t*-- for the rest of your life."
Quote: I suffered the same problems on the new Michelin M/S and switched to the XPS Michelins which has all steel belts and the problem was corrected. ....
Quote: found my Geolandar brochure (finally), and I noticed that they also have the AT+II in an LT285/75R16, rated as a Load Range D, but with 3,305 bs @ 65 lbs (305 # / tire more than the 265). Looks like it's 0.9" wider, and 1.2" taller. Might be worth considering.
Jim, Thanks! I've run a few of those number differences too. Interesting that the difference in size between the 245s and the 265s is almost identical to the difference between 265's and 285s.
Using 285s the difference in diameter and width from stock are 2.37" bigger in diameter and 1.58" in width. Doesn't sound like a lot but the site I use to do the calculations graphically shows the tires being compared side by side to see the differences. It's asignificant difference! Even just going to the 265s is significant.
I'll end up with somewhat higher gear ratios, a little better gas mileage and loose a little acceleration off the line. Speedo will read 7.8% too slow using the 285s and the odometer will register 7.8% too fewer miles than actual. I'll have to look into re-calibration if I swap the tires. I know brake capacity is an issue as tire size increases. I'll have to look into that too.
Quigley told me that the chevys with the solid axle can handle the 265s. I saw much bigger tires on a couple of their chevys with solid axles at a sportsman's show a few months ago. I forgot to ask/look to see if the wheel wells were modified.
Although I'll gain 4" in ground clearance with the solid axle, I'll loose some of that when I air the tires down for the sand. I'll try the stock tires first then decide if I need more clearance or not. (I bought a short handled shovel today, if you know what I mean).
You might be interested in this. Quigley told me they are excited about converting my Roadtrek. And they are considering engineering coil springs for the solid axle. If it can be done I'll still get the additional ground clearance and a somewhat better ride. Also the front water tank won't have to be modified for one of the leaf spring mounting points.
They've had my rig two weeks now. The first week the studied the situation and conducted some engineering meetings. The only progress I have heard so far from Quigley is an email with a couple of pix of my rig on their lift. They had to remove the two waste tanks on the passenger side and it took them three hours. They said the tanks were glued together. Despite me emptying the tanks completely on level ground they said they ran into a fair amount of water working removing the tanks. I hope it was water. I did flush the tanks after I dumped. Must be some "upstream" pools.
I read somewhere that the tires used on wheeled vehicles used in desert warfare were balloon slicked tires. No tread pattern is required. In fact, tread, especially deep or wide tread patterns, take away some the the tires ability to "float" on top of the sand.
I'll post a complete report when I get it back. And then again after my first foray onto the beach. I'm taking a shovel, some planks, a jack, blocks of wood, a shovel and a tow strap and perhaps a friend with another 4WD to get me unstuck during my experimenting. Future possibilities are for a winch, compressor and a sand anchor. There aren't a lot of other vehicles on the beach in the winter months so I'll have to plan to dig myself out. Also will probably get a front reciver welded up. mainly for a d-ring if i need a front tow. I can always use it for a rack to carry beach/fishing gear.
', or "Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S, An Update...". (Warning: Looonng)
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