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Topic: Propane Tank Recertification

Posted By: Tim Nowicki on 01/01/07 02:37pm

Was refused service a while back at a flying J propane station. The young man said my tank was out of date. Tank is mounted on a motorhome. Model year 1990. At the time I did not know for sure If a permanately mounted tank needed to be recertified. Info in motorhome magazine says the tank does NOT need to be recertified. Any body know the straight scoop before I go back to explain to Flying J ?? .
Thanks


Posted By: gasbag on 01/01/07 02:49pm

The only thing I am aware of is that there is a new connector required to our LP tanks. Whether it be a BBQ bottle or a motorhome tank.

Maybe you need a new connector installed.


Posted By: KV41 on 01/01/07 02:54pm

You need to drive to a propane gas company and have then intall
the new required connector and then you should be OK.


Posted By: Tim Nowicki on 01/01/07 03:01pm

Let me clarify the problem here. The attendant said the tank was out of date, Meaning too old. There is not a problem with the fittings or connectors. I am able to fill the tank any where but this one flying J in my town. Even at out of town flying Js it was not a problem. So my question still stands. Do permanately mount tanks need to be recertified??


Posted By: Trailer Trash 2 on 01/01/07 03:10pm

That was stated a few years back about old tanks, and there old valves not being refilled.
They have to be recertified before a new style valve can be installed and that ant free. it's cheaper to get a new tank and up grade it with a view gage to see how much propain you fave left.


TT2
Happy New Year


Don & Georgia
AKA: Trailer Trash 2
Real trucks don't have spark plugs.
2009, Dodge, 3500, Q Cab, Cum/Diesel, D.R.W.
Pulling a Super Fine Montana 2980RL



Posted By: CHRMAN on 01/01/07 03:11pm

Ask a propane bulk "dealer".


Posted By: tom_kat on 01/01/07 05:27pm

a little story about haveing up right tanks inspected,went to a propane dist to have a 20 lb tank filled he checked the date,first person to ever do that,said i had to have it inspected for the cost of $10,he looked the tank over and took a medal stamp and stamped a date on it,total rip off,get a medal stamp kit and stamp a date on it your self,as far as i know MH tanks dont need to be inspected.


1985 Class A Holiday Rambler Imperial 33 +1979 Class C Holiday Rambler Statesman 1000 = 24 ft



Posted By: Hikerdogs on 01/01/07 03:58pm

There's an article on page 75 of the January issue of MotorHome Magazine that addresses your question. The article is titled Back To Basics - LP Gas Systems.
Here's a quote from the "Maintenance & Storage" section:

"Unlike portable cylinders, which after 12 years in service must be re-certified for every 5 years, permanently mounted ASME tanks do not require re-certification - but they should be visually inspected every time they are refilled."

As a side note the article mentions the OPD (Overfill Protection Device) has been incorporated in the ASME certified tank design since 1983.

Hope this helps


Hikerdogs
2013 Winnebago Adventurer


Posted By: Bago Mike on 01/01/07 04:01pm

javaseuf wrote:

Many inaccurate posts here regarding a permanantly mounted MH tank.

Many of you are thinking of the new OFD overfill valve required on portable LPG tanks on trailers and BBQ.

Motorhome and horizontal tanks are exempt and actually, MH tanks have had OFD devices for many,many years.


It is my understanding that mounted tank do not need recertified. That guy didn't know his job. It has nothing to do with the valve, it is about rusty, and poor maintained tanks. On portable tanks, he has to check for date stamps. On my portable tanks, the fill man looks at the tanks and says it's OK and restamps them, No test to it, just charge more Money.


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Posted By: javaseuf on 01/01/07 04:25pm

Bago Mike wrote:

javaseuf wrote:

Many inaccurate posts here regarding a permanantly mounted MH tank.

Many of you are thinking of the new OFD overfill valve required on portable LPG tanks on trailers and BBQ.

Motorhome and horizontal tanks are exempt and actually, MH tanks have had OFD devices for many,many years.


It is my understanding that mounted tank do not need recertified. That guy didn't know his job. It has nothing to do with the valve, it is about rusty, and poor maintained tanks. On portable tanks, he has to check for date stamps. On my portable tanks, the fill man looks at the tanks and says it's OK and restamps them, No test to it, just charge more Money.


Your propane guy may be ripping YOU off. All he is doing is inspecting, not recertifying. Our refrigerant recovery tanks, manufactured by Manchester, the same one that makes LpG tanks, and old LpG tanks, have to be pressure tested, not just "looked at". Some of the larger city fire departments can do this since they are the ones that issue permits for compressed air tanks.

You confirmed everything I mentioned although I am not 100% sure on certification on mounted tanks. I would think they would need to be recertified since they are stamped as well and are a pressure vessel but maybe not.

* This post was edited 01/01/07 04:36pm by javaseuf *






Posted By: javaseuf on 01/01/07 04:32pm

Trailer Trash 2 wrote:

That was stated a few years back about old tanks, and there old valves not being refilled.
They have to be recertified before a new style valve can be installed and that ant free. it's cheaper to get a new tank and up grade it with a view gage to see how much propain you fave left.


TT2
Happy New Year


You are correct on portable tanks. The OP has a mounted tank on a MH.


Posted By: Crazy Ray on 01/01/07 04:58pm

Tim, simple answer NO it does not need to be recertied (horizontal tank) on your MH. Guy at Flying J did not know what he was doing. JMO


RET ARMY 1980,DW Donna,"Tiny" (furkid). Class A, 2007 Bounder 35E, Ford V10 w/Steer Safe, 4SAMS 6V, 525W Solar , TriStar 45 Controller,Tri-Metric 2020,Yamaha 2400, TOW: Honda CRV. Ready Brake. "Living Our Dream". NASCAR #11,14,18,20 LOVE CO,NM,AZ



Posted By: JimAC7PO on 01/01/07 03:33pm

They are confusing the ASME tank on your MH with the DOT tanks that are on trailers. DOT need to be re-certified on some schedule, ASME do not per my propane supplier. Also I believe you already have the auto shut off, don't you?? If you don't you may have to go to a Propane dealer and have one installed.

In either event, check with a dealer and get the straight scoop for your installation. Also get a copy of the regulation that covers your situation and carry it with you for insurance. G


Jim
Jim Godward
Belgrade, MT


Posted By: javaseuf on 01/01/07 03:40pm

Many inaccurate posts here regarding a permanantly mounted MH tank.

Many of you are thinking of the new OFD overfill valve required on portable LPG tanks on trailers and BBQ.

Motorhome and horizontal tanks are exempt and actually, MH tanks have had OFD devices for many,many years.

As far as the issue on recertification, MH tanks, like all LPG tanks, have a date stamped on them. The pressure integrity of the tank needs to be inspected/tested every so many years. I seem to remember 7 but am not sure. The recertification has nothing to do with the fill valve. If your portable tank doesn't have the required OFD valve, it can't be filled. It is then either disgarded or a new valve is installed. The same tank, even with a new valve, can still require certification if beyond the date stamped on the tank.

Also, dealers can refuse to fill a tank if it shows signs of rust.

* This post was edited 01/01/07 03:50pm by javaseuf *


Posted By: tatest on 01/01/07 11:36pm

The LPG industry has done well enough in their lobbying that "fixed" storage tanks and piping do not need to be recertified after initial installation, no matter how old. Under current regulations in the U.S., permanently installed LPG tanks on motor vehicles are considered "fixed."

Expect this to change, eventually, because environmental and consumer interest groups have been busy lately, on just this subject. Too many leaks, especially at installations where pipes run subsurface. A lot of other users of moderate-pressure tanks, especially for liquified gases under pressure, have inspection schedules. Political winds are changing, in the future we could be seeing scheduled inspections or scheduled tank replacements.


Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B



Posted By: SCVJeff on 01/02/07 12:36am

The same thing happened to me in 1997 where I was refused a fill until the tank was "recertified". What did that mean?... Looking for damage, scraping and repainting, all for only $250. I sent a note to Motorhome Mag to pose the question (see Dec 97' Motorhome) and was told exactly what javasenuf posted above. I also called the bulk supplier to this filler (that happens to be an RV service center and should know better) who reconfirmed this and said several times he had tried to convince the owner that this was incorrect and was getting nowhere, and just go elsewhere. If you like, I'll stop by the MH, grab the magazine, scan the article and either post it here or email if you think that will do any good to convince them.

Jeff


Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350



Posted By: tripple dipper on 01/02/07 03:35am

The new valve is only required on 40# and smaller tanks at this time I think it reads under 100#


Posted By: RRRKKK on 01/02/07 07:08am

It was raining so I put my 100# tank (Shop heater) in my Jeep Cherokee by laying it down on its side. Went to Heetco they made me go home to get my pickup truck as they wouldn't let me haul it away from their shop unless it was in an upright position. Try as I might they wouldn;t let me take it unless it was upright!


There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
Ron K


Posted By: Tim Nowicki on 01/02/07 07:56am

SCV Jeff
Yes I would like to see that article if possible. E-mail or posted.Thanks. Also, thanks every one for the input on this. I wonder if this subject is documented some where in DOT or other related agency.

Tim


Posted By: hipower on 01/05/07 02:51pm

The NFPA Phamplet 58 is the Bible for the rules and regs regarding LP and associated appurtences. You can purchase this book from them, but it is seriously overpriced. It is updated every two years and you may find that your local propane supplier would give you his older copy.

As for requalification, there is no current regulation that requires periodic recertification of vessels designed to ASME specs. This means any permanent mount tanks on your motor home. DOT spec tanks require periodic requalification, 12 years from date of manufacture and evey 5 years thereafter for a visual recertification. A visual is denoted by the letter "E" after the month and date of requalification. If anyone completes a requalification on a DOT tank for you and stamps the month and year without a smaller series of numbers arranged in a circle between those numbers they have ripped you off. This series of numbers identifies the Federally registered requalifier. Some dealers have gone away from stamping the dates and apply a label with the date scribed into it. This label also includes their requalifier station number preprinted at the time of manufacture.


Posted By: tommy wilson on 01/05/07 04:04pm

NO


tommy wilson
1996 kountrystar dp
spartan mountainmaster chassis


Posted By: Krashdragon on 02/08/07 08:43pm

RRRKKK wrote:

It was raining so I put my 100# tank (Shop heater) in my Jeep Cherokee by laying it down on its side. Went to Heetco they made me go home to get my pickup truck as they wouldn't let me haul it away from their shop unless it was in an upright position. Try as I might they wouldn;t let me take it unless it was upright!


In this case, they were right... I believe it's an OSHA reg...
Mary


Posted By: mgh122 on 02/08/07 08:55pm

JimAC7PO wrote:

They are confusing the ASME tank on your MH with the DOT tanks that are on trailers. DOT need to be re-certified on some schedule, ASME do not per my propane supplier. Also I believe you already have the auto shut off, don't you?? If you don't you may have to go to a Propane dealer and have one installed.

In either event, check with a dealer and get the straight scoop for your installation. Also get a copy of the regulation that covers your situation and carry it with you for insurance. G


I talked to my propane guy who rebuilds and recertifies tanks. You are correct.


Mike & Peg
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'04 Grand Cherokee Freedom, M&G, Roadmaster Sterling
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Posted By: pegdiver on 02/08/07 09:30pm

Ron K -
This is why they wouldn't let you go home with the tank down -
From RV Repair Manual

Also, by law, it is an offense to fill a propane cylinder or tank beyond 80% of it's capacity and that law is in place for a very good reason. Propane is stored in a liquid state by compressing it in a cylinder or tank. At 80% full there is the remaining 20% of the storage capacity to allow for expansion of the liquid due to temperature changes. If the tank is over filled this expansion room is decreased to the point that the built in pressure relief valve will vent off enough propane to avoid tank rupture. If the cylinder is lying on it's side when this happened it would vent off enough liquid propane to reduce the internal pressure to below the preset pressure of the relief valve. When liquid propane is released it will expand to 270 times it's volume. Propane is heavier that air and tends to collect at the lowest spot, such as the lowest deck of a ferry, where enough can be present to cause an explosion.


1999 32' Adventurer (no slides) with Grand Vitara toad
Pride 3 wheel mobility scooter
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Posted By: hohenwald48 on 02/09/07 11:02am

I'm not even going to try to address the individual errors posted through out this thread but there is sure a lot of mis-information and mis-understanding in it.
Chris


2008 Fleetwood Jamboree 25G
1999 Jeep Wrangler
100% Solar Powered Home
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


Posted By: dontay on 02/09/07 05:59pm

I ran into the recertification deal in Canada. There DOT bottles have to be recertified every 10 years instead of 12 as in the States. After the first place wouldn't fill my bottle I only looked for mom and pop stations and didn't have the problem again. After all, where an employee finds a way to avoid work an owner will gladly forget to check the date.
And to give the weight, propane bottle, and toad brake police on the forum apoplexy here is how I dealt with the problem when I got home and had to prepare for the following summer's trip to Canada: I took wood filler and covered the date codes on the bottles. Used a large nail to rescribe the dates, sanded them down, and repainted the bottles. Used them for 2 more years until the OPD reg required new valves. This is a limited solution because you are limited in what dates you can change. Mine were both 88's and I changed them to 00's. A 90 could be changed to 00 easily.
While the MH tank does not technically have to be recertified do you want to have to argue with every high school dropout in N. America about it. If his boss told him what to do he isn't going to listen to you. So, see if you can recertify the tank yourself!


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Posted By: wny_pat on 11/26/07 07:45pm

dontay wrote:

I ran into the recertification deal in Canada. There DOT bottles have to be recertified every 10 years instead of 12 as in the States. After the first place wouldn't fill my bottle I only looked for mom and pop stations and didn't have the problem again. After all, where an employee finds a way to avoid work an owner will gladly forget to check the date.
And to give the weight, propane bottle, and toad brake police on the forum apoplexy here is how I dealt with the problem when I got home and had to prepare for the following summer's trip to Canada: I took wood filler and covered the date codes on the bottles. Used a large nail to rescribe the dates, sanded them down, and repainted the bottles. Used them for 2 more years until the OPD reg required new valves. This is a limited solution because you are limited in what dates you can change. Mine were both 88's and I changed them to 00's. A 90 could be changed to 00 easily.
While the MH tank does not technically have to be recertified do you want to have to argue with every high school dropout in N. America about it. If his boss told him what to do he isn't going to listen to you. So, see if you can recertify the tank yourself!
Cylinders are DOT and tanks are AMSE (or is it the other way around?) Tanks are found in back yards with lines leading to heating furnaces and installed to the frames of motorhomes and the valves come out of the side of them. Two different animals. And I don't have a clue about Canada's regulations concerning this.


“All journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware.”


Posted By: Dog Trainer on 11/27/07 06:56am

I think the answer could be more simple than all of this. First of all there is no law that the jock at the j can cite that should prevent him from filling your permanetly mounted tank. Go to a different place to fill your tank or go into the store ask for the manager and have him sort it out with his employee. I have never been refused to have the tank on my 93 MH filled.


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Posted By: Hurricaner on 11/27/07 08:08am

Pegdriver is correct. It is a DOT reg not OSHA.

Even though the attendand was wrong about the date, if your tank is in poor condition they can refuse to fill it, there is no law forcing them to fill your tank, after all.. this is America.

Sam

* This post was edited 11/27/07 08:15am by Hurricaner *


Sam & Kari
Hurricane, Utah


2004 34' Damon Challenger 315


Posted By: bingoldsby on 11/27/07 09:24am

Is it possible to obtain some kind of convincing documentation on this subject which could be offered when this situation arises?

Seems like there could be the regulations posted somewhere, from which the pertinant section could be copied and printed - to be used as authoritative proof in this matter.


Brian K7ZRZ
Campground Hosting - Oregon State Parks
1987 30' Holiday Rambler Class A
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2000 Silver Miata LS Toad
.



Posted By: jenks60 on 11/27/07 01:24pm

3 years ago I was questioned about my rusty tank, and advised to have it recertified. I have never been questioned since. It is up to the individual whether or not he/she wants to refill your tank.


jenks, fulltiming with the DW.
92 Southwind P3(32) 33 ft.
99 Saturn SL2
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