grahamular wrote: Congrats on what looks like a well researched and carefully planned setup. All they naysayers who are judging your choice based on a length comparison should go stick their head back in the sand.
Now, THIS setup I might be a little concerned about!
I bet he thinks that set up is just fine..
I would think it is safe to say that at the least that Liberty has its work cut out for it...
MysteryWriter wrote: The people who have bought a bill of goods are the ones towing 4000 lb. trailers with 3/4 ton trucks. Chris has done his research. If anyone doubts, call a guy named Andy Thomson at Can-Am RV in London, Ontario. Those guys specialize in outfitting light tow vehicles with trailers.
I personally know of several people towing 24 and 26 foot trailers with Jeep WRANGLERS. Now there's a lousy tow vehicle. Chris put a few thousand dollars into his hitch and other upgrades but saved about $10,000 on a big truck, not to mention the gas money he saved.
Too many in the RV world are living in the past. Modern vehicles have the horsepower and torque to tow a good sized trailer.
Way to go, Chris. But you need a different offset hitch bar on the Arrow. Then you'll be level.
Not a very informed response. HP and torque are 2 of many things to consider. With that thinking you could hitch a Harley Davidson to a 30+ ft TT and say, "Hey it's got the HP and torque to pull it, it must be good." Hardly.
What many folks are discussing here is the overall safety of the whole package. I am glad the poster is happy with his setup and he did do a great job of ferreting out the details. I personally do not believe it is a safe setup but that's just my opinion.
I've towed tent trailers, large and small, TTs 26' and more. Used a minivan, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, gas and diesel, auto and stick, and for my money I'll stick with a larger TV. Have been over too many passes in too hot weather to use anything other than a vehicle designed to pull that kind of weight safely (safe for my family and for the TV).
I wish the poster all the good trips he can make. Hopefully he and his family will always be safe and enjoy their rig.
Jim, Lisa, and the kids
'05 Dodge 2500 Laramie 325/610 CTD 48re
'99 Sunnybrook 26DB
Prodigy BC
Fair enough. My point is this: engineering should improve the performance of our vehicles, which it has. If that's the case, why are we still stuck with gas guzzlers for tow vehicles? We're not, but the auto industry wants us to think that. They get a much bigger profit from larger vehicles than small ones.
If we continue to improve the efficiency of our tow vehicles, hitches, trailers, brake controllers, etc., we'll be able to enjoy our chosen lifestyle despite fuel costs.
The people who care enough to post in these forums should push every industry involved in RVing to improve their products. That includes the auto industry, which often seems dead set against us at times.
Sounds like a good thread to start, or a whole new forum: How to RV and be energy efficient at the same time.
Been where you are (size of TV dictated size of TT). Had the TV a year before the TT, then after 18 years of being pet less ended up with 2 pooches that put a cramp in our love for travel. Solution...went to an RV show, found an honest dealer who didn't blow smoke, and bought a 24 foot Gulf Stream lightweight TT. Because we didn't know if we would like RVing or would use the TT, we didn't want to spend a bundle on a Class A or C, or on upgrading our TV.
I didn't like the TV's performance on our first trip (700 mile r/t all flat highway or city street). Did some research and made a few mods to the TV (Explorer SportsTrac) to improve performance and increase stability. Have towed our TT 9,000 miles without any major problems. Handles well going up and down hills, took all but one grade (31%) better than some other TVs, including big diesels, and has very minimal sway even in heavy winds (when a big semi blows by us we get some sway).
Here are some of our lessons learned:
1. To keep the weight down, the manufacture strips out a lot of storage space. This created a challenge in respect to stowage of stuff like hoses, small BBQ, sewer hose (the bumper has welding spokes that perforate the sewer hose, patio mats/rugs (necessary to help keep the pooches cleaner), golf clubs, fishing gear, patio furniture, etc). The SportsTrac’s short bed exacerbated this condition.
2. Also to keep the weight down, the manufacture reduces the size of the holding tanks (fresh water: 30 gal and black & gray 15 gal each). When underway, we only fill the fresh water tank 1/3 full and ensure the gray is empty. The small tank capacities (especially the gray and fresh water) inhibit dry camping and boon docking. In one instance one RV Park (Coronado Navy Base) had power and water, but no sewer. We stayed there a week and with visiting children and grandchildren we had to use the Park's portable holding tanks to 3 times to dump our tanks.
3. Second day on the road of our first major trip (60 cross-country) DW, the pooches, and me find we really like RVing.
4. 18 months later, we still like RVing and have two 60 plus day trips and at least one 14 day trip planned for the remainder of this year and next year.
5. Although our TT has a small slide it is only suitable for weekend use by DW and I (and the pooches). It is too small for extended use or for 3 or more big kids/adults. This is problematic in that we tend to use it for at least periods of 7 to 14 days at a time.
6. During our last trip we realized it is time to upgrade. Though we don’t plan on becoming full timers, we expect to use the RV at least 4 months of the year. At first I was inclined to upgrade to a diesel Class A (something would tow our SportsTrac) but once I started looking at 5ers I was converted. I like the greater utility of space afforded by a 5er.
I have been exposed to RV's for much of my 60+ years, and, as earlier noted, have seen very "small" tow vehicles tow very large (relatively)loads. Also, when I was very young, I traveled cross country multiple times in Greyhound busses that were generally 4 - 6 cylinder non turbo diesels. By today's standards, they were pitifully underpowered, but I never felt unsafe. The drivers simply adjusted driving tactics to the load. about 20 years ago, I drove/towed a 55' motorhome/enclosed trailer combo to Alaska and back. That rig was marginal, and taught me some valuable lessons about weight and balance. I had to be very careful driving once started, and had a trip of a lifetime (good). It sounds like the author has done the paperwork to make his rig as safe as possible, and try to solve a multiple variable problem of economy, expense, weight, and space. Most of the posts simplify the variable considerations by defaulting to the biggest tow vehicle possible in every case. Maybe for a couple more years, that approach will still make sense to most. But once fuel is $5+ per gallon, the author of this post will be enjoying rving while the rest of us have our rv's parked! By the way, I believe that it is just fine to be more than a little concerned about towing a load with ANY vehicle. All towed vehicles increase the danger of accidents, and the more comfortable drivers are, the more likely they are to take chances they shouldn't (like excessive speed).
Dan
2002 Trail Lite 211S; 8.1 Liter Chevy,
2007 Tundra Double Cab 4X4 - Hot Rod,
2005 30RLS Outback Sydney Edition,
2007 Jeep Compass
Daniel C. wrote: I have been exposed to RV's for much of my 60+ years, and, as earlier noted, have seen very "small" tow vehicles tow very large (relatively)loads. Also, when I was very young, I traveled cross country multiple times in Greyhound busses that were generally 4 - 6 cylinder non turbo diesels. By today's standards, they were pitifully underpowered, but I never felt unsafe. The drivers simply adjusted driving tactics to the load. about 20 years ago, I drove/towed a 55' motorhome/enclosed trailer combo to Alaska and back. That rig was marginal, and taught me some valuable lessons about weight and balance. I had to be very careful driving once started, and had a trip of a lifetime (good). It sounds like the author has done the paperwork to make his rig as safe as possible, and try to solve a multiple variable problem of economy, expense, weight, and space. Most of the posts simplify the variable considerations by defaulting to the biggest tow vehicle possible in every case. Maybe for a couple more years, that approach will still make sense to most. But once fuel is $5+ per gallon, the author of this post will be enjoying rving while the rest of us have our rv's parked! By the way, I believe that it is just fine to be more than a little concerned about towing a load with ANY vehicle. All towed vehicles increase the danger of accidents, and the more comfortable drivers are, the more likely they are to take chances they shouldn't (like excessive speed).
Excellent post. My own experience mirrors a lot of what you describe, but I only have 48 years worth.
MysteryWriter wrote: Fair enough. My point is this: engineering should improve the performance of our vehicles, which it has. If that's the case, why are we still stuck with gas guzzlers for tow vehicles? We're not, but the auto industry wants us to think that. They get a much bigger profit from larger vehicles than small ones.
If we continue to improve the efficiency of our tow vehicles, hitches, trailers, brake controllers, etc., we'll be able to enjoy our chosen lifestyle despite fuel costs.
The people who care enough to post in these forums should push every industry involved in RVing to improve their products. That includes the auto industry, which often seems dead set against us at times.
Sounds like a good thread to start, or a whole new forum: How to RV and be energy efficient at the same time.
Typical RV.net. Someone comes on giving a first hand report on a towing combination but he knows absolutely nothing. Those who haven't been within a thousand miles of it let alone never driven it are the absolute authority on the subject. Good grief!
I not sure about the Liberty, power or no power. We use to tow a 25'TT Shasta Lite that had a 4200 lbs dry weight sticker. At the time we had a 99' Grand Cherokee 6 cyl rated to tow 4500 lbs. Of cause we had the wdh. but it was just way too much trailer for the old horse. But we understood that going in on the deal as we had access to a 99 3500 ram dually diesel.
Be careful, your wheelbase is just too short for me.
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