However, there is not a "perfect" towing system out there and the best you can do is be educated about the system you are choosing to use. With that said the important points I am taking away from this are proper BC setup and being aware of your truck, trailer and environment.
Mytrook, well said and very open minded. Great response and so very true. Dead on.
I also noticed you have a Fox TT. Been looking at them since my TT maker went under last fall. The Fox is a very nice TT. Well built and quality on top of it. Good luck with your new rig.
To add to your great thoughts. Towing a TT is about how to get a total towing solution, not just the hitch in the middle.
Now to this guy...
crappie_fisherman wrote:
Snip...
One of the only hotter passionate topics that you could have stepped into would be one of the following:
New Jersey vs New Yourk
joe
H'mmmm...... I'm thinking, wise crack soon to come.....
Actually I thought you where going to add, "The year 2000 to 2006 NBS GM Receiver" Now there is some passion in that topic.....
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we where camping!)
Wow! Some very nice posts and very reserved folks who aren't taking offense at what I see as good open dialogue on Hensley's.
FWIW We've been using a Hensley since 1997 and this is the second trailer it's been transplanted to. We average about 5K-7K miles per year towing on all different types of terrain and going through NYC (Cross Bronx Expwy)
Anyway, I have experienced the bump but not to the extent I've heard here as far as wanting to make the whole combo want to swap ends. Two main things come to mind as to when this has happened. One was when we first put the Hensley onto the new trailer andmissed tightening one of the struts. A definite no-no.
Any other time the culprit seems to have been not having the brakes set properly. I like to have the trailer brakes lead the TV brakes significantly. This was taught to me over 30 years ago by a gentleman I worked for in my late teens driving hauling boats around Loong Island.
I agree with the main idea that has been put forth here: I still love my Hensley, but every tow combo will have it's limitations no matter what. It's just the laws of physics at work.
The trick is minimizing your exposure and never being complacent about the size and weight of the combo you're driving.
Hey Brian, welcome to the forum! That 95 through the Bronx is brutal!! Going upstate this weekend, so it's the other way on 95 to 287 to the TZ, a better ride pavement-wise....
Les,
Sorry I must step back on the box…I know you have the ultimate power to remove anything in-appropriate…but I think I did a good once over edit before posting…
[URL=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2280317720099735294JpkZNa][IMG]http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/21710/2280317720099735294S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/url]
You know…as you can imagine I have received a few PM’s about this topic…both here and over at sunnybrooktalk when I was posting...
Many asked why I would openly place a ‘target’ on myself and discuss this ‘hot’ topic.
Well my rationale on penning this thread was this…discussion…and provoking THOUGHT…NOT poking someone in the eye for choosing a particular brand hitch…
Here’s my situation:
The end of last year I purchased a 34’ ball to bumper 9000# TT and hauled it empty from the dealer to storage with my DC where the TT sat until this spring. I pulled it out of storage and had admittedly messed with and more accurately messed UP my WD balance. So I loaded up the TV and TT and headed to the scales to regain my balance. Well even with a properly scale verified WD setup…I STILL got a pretty good ‘wiggle’ at 60mph on the interstate as a semi passed me going down hill…
Our family summers entail many miles and a few long 12-16 hour towing days…I am the only one in my family that drives while towing…so I needed to be comfortable and relaxed to achieve these long days. With this LONG TT and current setup on my Ex…I didn’t feel I would be able to achieve what I knew I needed…so my search for a new hitch to provide a more stable towing environment begins.
I’ve always heard and read that the Hensley provided this stability. While the ‘bump’ has been obviously discussed in a few threads…it isn’t a topic of OPEN discussion much. More of the discussions of a Hensley nature ‘usually’ go something like this.
Non-HA owner:..”Can you believe someone would spend $3K for an ugly orange piece of…”
HA owner…”Have you ever towed with a Hensley? It provides an incredibly stable towing experience…if you have NEVER towed with one…”
Non-HA owner…”I’ve never towed with a Hensley but…I just don’t see why you need to spend $3K on a hitch!”
HA owner…”blah blah blah”
Non-HA owner…”OH YEAH…blah blah blah…”
And so the discussions go spiraling into lock down mode…:)
The data that I would have found interesting at least for me would have been a more OPEN discussion of the limitation on this $3K hitch. If you looked over at sunnybrooktalk. Mr. Estrada openly ‘discounted’ the Pull-Rite hitch until pressed by me and others. He stated that he discounted Pull-Rite because they are so “small”…Well isn’t Pulliam LARGER than HENSLEY? To be so arrogant?...I understand brand loyalty…but I think I get a sense of where it comes from in that one statement…yes the HA is GOOD…but it ain’t perfect…
So what would I have liked to see…well I probably didn’t look as hard as I should have at the Pull-Rite based on the open discussions of just how GOOD the Hensley is. To be honest…I’ve had 3 private discussions 2 of which with current HA owners that are actually thinking of switching to a Pull-Rite and one possible future HA buyer that is now going to give the Pull-Rite a REAL look based on the OPEN discussions in this thread...
The open dialog in this thread I wish I could have seen or known about before my decision to plunk $3K down on either Pull-Rite or HA. I would likely have gone Pull-Rite to be quite honest...
Do I regret going HA…NO…I just feel that the Pull-Rite has more advantages in their design over the HA…but the HA is an excellent hitch under ‘most’ conditions. You just need to be aware of the limitations…and there are situations that even if you are aware…you may still not be prepared to handle.
One last thing to ponder…again I didn’t think of this as it came to me in a private email…but it is EXCELLENT food for thought.
With the HA we spend $3K on the hitch which is riding in the middle of a $10K-$50K TV and a $5K-$30K TT and we MUST rely on a $120 brake controller to be ‘properly’ set?...hmmm does anyone else see a small flaw in that logic?
Here’s the way I see it and fully understand others differing views. With a Pull-Rite, DC or Equal-i-zer in if ANY of these scenarios where you lost your brake controller or your 7 wire plug fell out or road debris severed a TT brake line…hypothetical YES…possible YES…probable for you MAYBE…but if the scenario played out I would MUCH RATHER have a hitch other than a HA between my TV and TT and let my TV brakes STOP THE COMBO (albeit in a much elongated distance) than get rear ended by my TT and possibly lose control. While under most conditions life will throw at us the HA is far superior to the other ‘friction based hitches’…There ARE situations where that logic IMO falls apart…hence this thread…
So hopefully others can read this LONG thread…separate out the humor, banter and 'stuff' and understand the message. That message clearly shows that even WITH a ‘properly’ adjusted BC you can STILL have an issue with the HA and you need to prepare yourself and adjust your driving habits to accordingly to help to minimize the potential of getting into this situation…that is it in a nut-shell.
Oh and anyone that is ‘thinking’ about a new hitch…do not discount the HA for this ‘feature’…but instead just make sure it is in your pugh matrix when you are making your evaluation between hitches. There ARE benefits to both designs as there are negatives to both…only the operator can determine which works best for them. For me…having this information NOW just makes me more cognizant as to HOW TO DRIVE my combo…but having it prior to my purchase…well I will likely in the future make sure that others know about ALL the features of ALL choices that I know about…and am willing to talk about regardless of the target it portrays on my body…
When I started this thread and was ‘invited’ to discuss it over on sunnybrooktalk…I had no idea how much people really don’t believe this phenomena…that’s okay…I do and will adjust my driving accordingly but also know that no matter how ‘careful’ I am…this ‘bump’ ‘feature’ can still manifest itself at the most inopportune time even with a ‘properly’ adjusted BC. Whereas other options in hitch designs may suffer from other ‘features’…no one has pointed to a possible accident causing one in the Pull-Rite. Things like vehicle specific, larger turning radius around town, loss of spare tire, etc…to me are creature comfort items that we can work around. Being rear-ended by a 9000# TT at 55mph on a curve in the rain because my $120 brake controller took a dump... well to me that is an unacceptable risk to not know about ahead of time…not that I expect Hensley to point me towards Pull-Rite…that’s foolish…but the folks on RV.net or sunnybrooktalk.com should at least relay this type of information to people asking about hitches…that’s what these forums are about…right?
Okay Don…fire away…but before you do…a little birdie told me that the fellows over on sunnybrooktalk have DELETED (i.e. REMOVED ALL REFERENCE TO) the ‘slander post’ I linked to above…perhaps they didn’t like being called on FACTS about the ‘bump’ feature and having it discussed in their home. What were Seans words…let me see…something to the effect of ‘letting adults discuss something’…seems like as long as it is a topic of ‘approval’ over there you can discuss it. I CHOSE to raise my head up into this topic and start a fire storm…it was obvious I was in the middle of home field over there and folks didn’t want to discuss a possible ‘bad’ feature…so I left and they were happy that I took my ‘differing’ opinion based on facts with me…now it seems they just wiped the whole record clean…very interesting indeed in a so called democracy…
Joe.
Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.
* This post was
edited 10/05/07 10:18am by crappie_fisherman *
Thank you for your time and effort! Your posts here were excellent and informative.. Perhaps the information here will prevent an accident or two, and that is much more important than the color of your hitch..
Me? Why would I fire away? At what? I've been agreeing with you.
The only thing I will say is that I think the tone here has been a little too henny-penny-ish (the sky is falling) about the potential issues that the HB (Hensley Bump) could create. Yes, if your brake controller "takes a dump" as you say, that would be an issue, BUT, that would be an issue with any hitch. The only time the HB could be an issue, IMO, is when you slam on the TV brakes, and have no TT brakes (or an improperly adjusted controller) and allow the trailer to bump the TV.
If you realize you have no TT brakes, for whatever reason, the technique is to gradually slow the TV on initial brake application until the TT comes forward. Once the TT is against the cam stop, you can brake the TV as hard as you want without any subsequent bump or adverse effect on control of the TV.
It's almost like you need the "perfect storm" of conditions to a) create the HB, and b) be in a position where the HB causes serious consequences.
I applaud you for bringing this discussion to light, so that HA owners are aware of the potential for the HB. However, I don't think it's as serious of a "flaw", "risk", "danger", etc., as has been portrayed by the tone of the discussion.
If you are considering a PullRite, you should talk to Les, he had a PullRite and then switched to the HA. I think he posted a write-up somewhere on the towing forum when he first got the HA.
crappie_fisherman wrote: ...
Okay Don…fire away…but before you do…a little birdie told me that the fellows over on sunnybrooktalk have DELETED (i.e. REMOVED ALL REFERENCE TO) the ‘slander post’ I linked to above…perhaps they didn’t like being called on FACTS about the ‘bump’ feature and having it discussed in their home. What were Seans words…let me see…something to the effect of ‘letting adults discuss something’…seems like as long as it is a topic of ‘approval’ over there you can discuss it. I CHOSE to raise my head up into this topic and start a fire storm…it was obvious I was in the middle of home field over there and folks didn’t want to discuss a possible ‘bad’ feature…so I left and they were happy that I took my ‘differing’ opinion based on facts with me…now it seems they just wiped the whole record clean…very interesting indeed in a so called democracy…
Joe.
Joe,
I'd like to say that you didn't get the typical experience over at Sunnybrook Talk, but the reasons weren't what you've taken them to be. It is true that most of us over there share in common that we are Sunnybrook owners, so it benefits us to not alienate ourselves from one another probably moreso than it might in a forum such as the ORF.
The problem is that your impression was formed from a very short stint where you participated primarily in only one of thousands of threads. From the start you shared your good and useful information in such a way that it seemed you had a bone to grind.
If you took a look at Sunnybrook Talk right now, you'd see that the most active thread is decrying the removal of that thread you linked to. See What happened to the "Hot" HA thread. That thread grew as fast as any I have seen over there, accumulating 36 posts in less than 12 hours. Unfortunately, the owner of the servers SB Talk runs on removed it because of the disparaging nature of conversation, not the subject matter. In all the years I've participated over there, I've never seen that happen.
Perhaps a more friendly approach and taking on the manner of a visitor might've prevented our loss.
Tim -
wife Beverly & 2 boys who love camping 2002 K2500 Suburban 8.1L 4.10 Prodigy 2005 Sunnybrook 30FKS HP Dual Cam Replaced 2000 Sunnybrook 26FK on 8/6/04
tluxon wrote: ---Unfortunately, the owner of the servers SB Talk runs on removed it because of the disparaging nature of conversation, not the subject matter. In all the years I've participated over there, I've never seen that happen.
Perhaps a more friendly approach and taking on the manner of a visitor might've prevented our loss.
Tim,
The "disparaging" conversation in the "Hensley Slander" thread did not occur only after Joe's comments were posted. Disparaging remarks existed in that thread from the very beginning.
And, the disparaging conversation is not limited to only the "Hensley Slander" thread. The Sunnybrooktalk Forum thread titled, "Hensley at 5 times - Tim?", is also full of disparaging remarks.
I doubt very much that a more friendly approach and/or acting like a visitor would have made any difference. Joe posted something which was interpreted by some Sunnybrook Forum readers as being "anti-Hensley"; and that's all it takes to get the disparaging conversation started.
Joe,
Thank you for bringing this to light. Your kevlar vest has been tested! Shame on those to think none of the scenarios's given are plausible. What if's, are just that, at least I won't be hit in the arse, when I least expect it, while using an HA (thanks HA for NOT pointing out this phenom).
Peter & Dawn 97 Winnebago Adventurer 37RW 91 R2500,454 Chevy Suburban 96 Prowler 27X SOLD Yamaha EF2800I
IAFF L-792
Granted that there maybe is a negaitve with the HM bump.Is it unsafe?Be my thinking it is not anymore unsafe than bald tires!
Driveing in rain with the cruise control is a known hazard also!
If the bump is enough to cause a accident then I believe that in reality it is a case of Driveing to fast for conditions.
Or worse yet failure to control due to Driveing to fast for conditions.
JMO
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I'm thinking, wise crack soon to come.....
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