Well, my wife got her wallet lifted out of her purse the first year we went to La Peñita. We went into town to the supermarcado's and she was still wandering, openmouthed looking at the town, and didn't notice that her purse was unzipped and apparently, some kids lifted her wallet. We kept our eye on our accounts over the Internet very closely for the next few months. Guess I can't compare it to anyplace in the US. Yes we know that crime happens, I remember the two guys that were murdered a few years ago, camping on the Baja. They were from a town in NV close to where we lived. Yes, some Canadians were murdered in Cancun a few years ago. These were verified in the news. We see the things that happen in Mexico but I tend to take with a grain of salt the friend of a friend reports. Also, when we were at Los Mochis last March, some people from the Xxxxxxxxxx Caravan were talking to us and thought how brave we were to travel alone in Mexico. I suspect that some tour operators stress the dangers to further their own ends. Just my opinion though.
Stan & Linda
Loki & Hobo
06 Dodge 3500 CTD 6 sp Quad Cab Bighorn
04 Laredo 29GS
"The Chief Warrent Officer was unimpressed by everything and seldom spoke except to express irritation."Joseph Heller,Catch 22
stanbnv wrote: Also, when we were at Los Mochis last March, some people from the Xxxxxxxxxx Caravan were talking to us and thought how brave we were to travel alone in Mexico. I suspect that some tour operators stress the dangers to further their own ends. Just my opinion though.
May be just your opinion, but I'll bet it's harbored by most that travel in Mexico and talk to some of the people on the Caravans. I know I've heard Caravan sales people, from 2 different companies at large Rallies in the US, state that it is not safe to travel in Mexico, except in Caravans.
Bob & Betsy - USN Ret'd '78 & FL LEO Ret'd '03 FMCA #F203528 '05 HR Endeavor, 40PRQ w/400 Cummins - With -'05 GMC Sierra SLT, CC Z-71, the pusher '07 Arctic Cat 500A & Wilderness Kayak, riding in the pusher - Our Current Location
The issue here that frustrates so many people is context and accuracy. There were inaccuracies in the initial post: the alleged crimes were not carjackings - there was an alleged armed robbery; there is a wide shoulder on some of the road, I've hooked up there. So, the story already wouldn't be good enough for any local US paper.
On context: like most Mexico-philes, I respect mainstream cited reporting, but hearsay and rumor really pisses me off. Why? Jingoism and racism. Mostly, you see posts on crime from people who aren't tourists. What is their point? And I'd bet my house that more than a couple of people in this 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon Baja Nomads tale are racist or jingoist.
There are a lot of negative misconceptions among Norte Americanos, even among those who aren't anti-Mexican racists. This was driven home within the past few weeks when the Teamsters made news fighting a provision of NAFTA allowing Mexican trucking companies to drive to US destinations outside the currently allowed zone. I saw and heard dozens of comments about how old, rickety, and unsafe the imaginary Mexican trucks are, but not one of these people had ever seen the trucks at the Benjamin Hill NAFTA stop, or had any idea that major Mexican trucking companies would be able to pass inspection at a US scale with trucks as new as typical US trucks. This was not racist, as I know some of these commenters, but it was, well, elitist? Uninformed? A product of US media bias? Who knows.
As to racism, the elephant in the corner. Fortunately, anti-Mexican bias is much, much less than is was only 10 years ago. Polling shows that a large majority of Americans want Mexicans in the US to be able to stay and earn citizenship (I have the links on my work computer, if anyone wants them on Tuesday). But, racism is still shockingly prevalent. At the recent FMCA rally, common banter included where we had been recently. When I mentioned PV, I was saddened to hear, "I don't want to go there, we have enough of them here," and a large number of softer statements about not wanting to be with Mexicans. You couldn't help but note the sea of Country Coaches, and Prevosts where this conversation was acceptable.
So the context here is everything. Every rumor that wouldn't make it past Snopes, or is so incredible that Snopes would see it as a waste of time, and every rumor that has factual errors too bad for the most mediocre small town newspaper, plays to an audience that is at best mostly poorly informed, or at worst, racist. Those who know Mexico, and RVing in Mexico know better, and we either dismiss the rumors, or call BS. I don't take it personally, but I understand Mexicophiles who do.
So what good are these unsubstantiated rumors? They have no value to people who frequently travel in Mexico. They do not serve to inform people who might consider travel to Mexico. They reinforce false impressions. They reinforce bigoted opinions that Mexico is fundamentally inferior.
Thus, to Tom's question about what is wrong with posting warnings: nothing, as long as they are true, and written in context.
But when was the last time you saw this sort of thread that informed anyone about whether the crime rate in Mexico was worse than here? When was the last time you saw a post that accurately, objectively, linked to a news story about crime in Mexico? (Alas, even well-meaning threads like one recently linking to Macleans struggled and stumbled to inform the reader about how safe or dangerous things are). I grant that there have been a few well-meaning threads, but I wish we didn't have to wade through a zillion threads like this in between.
No one should go to Mexico. More people should pay close attention to these warnings. They should limit thier travel to Texas and no further South. They should avoid Mexico between mid January and mid April. This year on the East coast will be the worst. Starting in Nogales about Jan 15th slowly spreading South.
Next year I hear Baja is the place to avoid starting in January or Febuary at the border then slowly spreading South again. I also heard travel warnings that every one should stay out of the Bay of Concepcion in the month of Febuary. Hope this helps (me).
Pacific John wrote: The issue here that frustrates so many people is context and accuracy. There were inaccuracies in the initial post: the alleged crimes were not carjackings - there was an alleged armed robbery; there is a wide shoulder on some of the road, I've hooked up there. So, the story already wouldn't be good enough for any local US paper.
On context: like most Mexico-philes, I respect mainstream cited reporting, but hearsay and rumor really pisses me off. Why? Jingoism and racism. Mostly, you see posts on crime from people who aren't tourists. What is their point? And I'd bet my house that more than a couple of people in this 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon Baja Nomads tale are racist or jingoist.
There are a lot of negative misconceptions among Norte Americanos, even among those who aren't anti-Mexican racists. This was driven home within the past few weeks when the Teamsters made news fighting a provision of NAFTA allowing Mexican trucking companies to drive to US destinations outside the currently allowed zone. I saw and heard dozens of comments about how old, rickety, and unsafe the imaginary Mexican trucks are, but not one of these people had ever seen the trucks at the Benjamin Hill NAFTA stop, or had any idea that major Mexican trucking companies would be able to pass inspection at a US scale with trucks as new as typical US trucks. This was not racist, as I know some of these commenters, but it was, well, elitist? Uninformed? A product of US media bias? Who knows.
As to racism, the elephant in the corner. Fortunately, anti-Mexican bias is much, much less than is was only 10 years ago. Polling shows that a large majority of Americans want Mexicans in the US to be able to stay and earn citizenship (I have the links on my work computer, if anyone wants them on Tuesday). But, racism is still shockingly prevalent. At the recent FMCA rally, common banter included where we had been recently. When I mentioned PV, I was saddened to hear, "I don't want to go there, we have enough of them here," and a large number of softer statements about not wanting to be with Mexicans. You couldn't help but note the sea of Country Coaches, and Prevosts where this conversation was acceptable.
So the context here is everything. Every rumor that wouldn't make it past Snopes, or is so incredible that Snopes would see it as a waste of time, and every rumor that has factual errors too bad for the most mediocre small town newspaper, plays to an audience that is at best mostly poorly informed, or at worst, racist. Those who know Mexico, and RVing in Mexico know better, and we either dismiss the rumors, or call BS. I don't take it personally, but I understand Mexicophiles who do.
So what good are these unsubstantiated rumors? They have no value to people who frequently travel in Mexico. They do not serve to inform people who might consider travel to Mexico. They reinforce false impressions. They reinforce bigoted opinions that Mexico is fundamentally inferior.
Thus, to Tom's question about what is wrong with posting warnings: nothing, as long as they are true, and written in context.
But when was the last time you saw this sort of thread that informed anyone about whether the crime rate in Mexico was worse than here? When was the last time you saw a post that accurately, objectively, linked to a news story about crime in Mexico? (Alas, even well-meaning threads like one recently linking to Macleans struggled and stumbled to inform the reader about how safe or dangerous things are). I grant that there have been a few well-meaning threads, but I wish we didn't have to wade through a zillion threads like this in between.
Whoa, someone is really being defensive. The author of the original
post on the Nomad forum was Elgatoloco and he did indicate one of the the trucks was taken. I believe that would be a car jacking.
In any case, we should always be aware of our surroundings, don't drive at nite, remember you are in a foreign country and obey their laws And by the way, when was it that news stories are always accurate?
Not defensive at all. Just analytical. This is a too-frequent topic, and per the consensus here, it would be nice if it did not show up like a game of telephone, with inevitable lack of substantiation. Do me a favor: next time, please respond to specific quotations.
Nowhere in this thread did we see even alleged evidence there was a carjacking.
Now you want us to know about hearsay in another forum? That's a new one!
Thank you for that post. I especially liked your comments on racism. It is rampant amongst RV'rs. It is not just the Prevost crowd. Head over to Escapees, a group of mostly frugal full timers. Many live on their Social Security. Mention Mexico and they all crawl out of the woodwork. I must disagree with your comments on Mexican trucks entering the USA. Although the trucks that will be allowed are as new as any fleet in the USA the drivers may be the problem. In the USA and Canada there are HOS ( hours of service) rules. Talk to any truck driver and these rules are his worst enemy. They prevent him from earning more money. If a Mexican driver leaves Guad and heads to Nogales non stop with no rest ( although he would get lots of rest at Benjamin Hill!!) and then enters the USA , how are his HOS determined? There are no rules for drivers in Mexico. Who is going to conduct a criminal record check when there is no efficient honest data base in Mexico? Who will prevent cabotage? What about a language test? I understand that the redneck drivers will say anything to prevent the Mexican drivers from entering the USA and I usually do not agree with anything spewed from the mouths of Teamsters but I think they have a valid point.
As an aside: Why do people refer to Benjamin Hill as a NAFTA "revision"? This check point existed long before NAFTA and it's purpose is mostly to find drugs. I did not know there was a provision in NAFTA for drug enforcement.
Pacific John, BINGO! Plus sometimes they are just trolls. Wish they would stay under a bridge where they belong.
I come from a pink neck background, and have family members who's necks are even red, but they don't seem to have too much predjudice against Mexicans, at least when I'm around. A couple of nieces husbands have owned construction companies in Las Vegas and that was about all they had working for them.
I guess things have gotten a lot tighter for truckers logs, what with GPS, internet, etc. I drove truck for a couple of years in the late '60s and logbooks were a joke, we caught them up when we felt like it.
Tiger4x4RV wrote: Even driving in the daytime in Baja can be upsetting. Last year while on a family non-RV trip all the way up and down Baja, we witnessed armed Federales climbing into and on top of RV's at every legal inspection point. Isn't once soon before or after the border enough inspections?
When you go through Mexican Customs they're just looking for things that they can charge you duty on, and to check your paperwork. The military check points on the highways are there for your safety and to inspect for contraband (drugs,guns etc). During the winter when I stay in Baja for months at a time, I do not travel the roads when the military has a tip of drug trafficking. You think they search your vehicle on a normal day? They really tear into your stuff when they have a tip. Especially the vehicles and persons that come close to matching the description of what they're looking for. I've seen vehicles with body parts removed, seats laying on the road and engine compartments that need alot of wrenching to be put back together. I know it is annoying to Americans, but if Americans want to stem the flow of drugs into the US, the roadside searches are a necessary evil. Mexico doesn't have to go through a tap dance to get a "Search Warrant". They just do it. And you complain about big brother wire tapping and reading Email. That's a cake walk compared to when the Mexican military has a tip. So, the next time you get searched, give the poor 16 year old Mexican soldier a cool drink, he is afterall helping to protect the US from the flood of illegal narcotics into our country.
George & Ann
Boone the wonder dog (Wonder if he'll stay home or chase rabbits)
Topaz Lake, NV/San Felipe, Baja Norte
Towing a 06 Jayco Eagle 323RKS
with a 04 Dodge Diesel 4x4
Pacific John wrote: Not defensive at all. Just analytical. This is a too-frequent topic, and per the consensus here, it would be nice if it did not show up like a game of telephone, with inevitable lack of substantiation. Do me a favor: next time, please respond to specific quotations.
Nowhere in this thread did we see even alleged evidence there was a carjacking.
Now you want us to know about hearsay in another forum? That's a new one!
Perhaps the following will help!
U.S. law enforcement officials say three North County surfers report they were robbed at gunpoint in Tijuana over Labor Day weekend. Authorities say the thieves impersonated police and made off with about $60,000 worth of equipment. KPBS reporter Amy Isackson has the story.
The California Highway Patrol's Mexico Liason, Armando Casas, says the three men crossed the border at dawn the Friday before Labor Day to spend the long weekend kite surfing in Baja. He says the men had made it about three miles from the San Ysidro crossing, on the highway that skirts the border fence and heads out to the toll road.
Casas says that's when they were pulled over by a convoy lead by a Ford Explorer with a blue police light.
Casas: Next thing you know, there's armed men coming out of every vehicle. They all had weapons and they were bilingual. They took everybody out of the vehicles. One particular gentleman they took aside and put a gun to his head. But he emptied out his pockets, threw money at them to try to get them distracted and it worked. They shoved him aside, took off with the money and their two vehicles.
Roberto Elizalde heads Baja California's stolen vehicles unit in Tijuana. He's sure his agents will find the cars because most likely, he says, the thieves will get caught using them to commit another crime.
Elizalde says armed car robberies are common in Tijuana but U.S. tourists are rarely the victims.
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. A couple of nieces husbands have owned construction companies in Las Vegas and that was about all they had working for them.
