Moisheh: good point about hours. The famous Anna and Edgar told us stories about truckers driving 36 hours straight. It wouldn't be good if the last 12 were in the US. But I'm glad you agree with the point about bias. Your Escapees point is very well taken. I joined the Escapees a few months ago, and have seen exactly what you observe, but at the same time, the Escapees have clubs that are tolerant in every way, including a lot of Mexico-philes.
Stan: Thanks a million. Things definitely are better than just a few years ago. The recent low mark in CA had to be 1994, when voters overwhelmingly supported kicking Mexican-American children our of school, even if they were citizens born here. We have seen a radical reversal of that sentiment, and I'm sure is comes with familiarity. Mexicans on crews like your families' are generally good people and hard workers. And as it turns out, wages did not suffer as Mexican immigrants entered the workforce; a recent study at someplace like UC (again, my links are on another computer) showed that wages increased, since native-born Americans tended to move up and supervise the newer highly productive workers.
I'm in a rural, conservative area, not too far from Bakersfield, and the reduction of racism here is a breath of fresh air. Anti-Mexican bias isn't much of a redneck phenomenon anymore. (There was a piece in one of the major newspapers past few days that pointed out why Mexican immigrants are being accepted so much more rapidly than previous immigrant groups: the move to small towns, not just big cities. Meeting people goes a long way to avoid misunderstandings).
Oh, and there's nothing wrong with redneck families - I can trace my ancestors practically back to William Wallace
Those stories were very interesting reading. They all had one thing in common, they said the supposed victims did not contact the authorities or make any report, but spread the story by word of mouth and on the Internet, so again an unverifiable report. Also, the last line of several of those reports said, this type of crime is common in TJ but usually NOT against Americans. So, I'm still a skeptic.
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Thanks, Art. If you want to make those clickable edit your post, and use the link icon. This happened four or five weeks ago?
The Texan: yeah, even the news reports are hearsay and seem to conflict with each other. We deserve better than jumbled reports about an incident from over a month ago.
Just what are the facts here? Darned if I know. Why do threads like this even show up?
Pacific John, Thanks for the heads up on the links.. We are leaving for El Fuerte on the 11th of Oct. and as usual expect a safe trip with no problems, but of course careful and considerate of what we do and how we do it.
We will be visiting a long time Mexican friend in Hermosillo and then on to Sinaloa. Hasta Luego.
moisheh wrote: One needs to be fully aware of driving in Mexico at night. What bothers me about that post is this is the second time we have seen something from the Nomads forum that is strange. Seems to me that the people on that forum are bunch of wild guys in 4 wheelers looking for trouble. I am assuming they are much younger than the people in this forum. Maybe they like living "on the edge".
Moisheh
I know, I am late to this thread---just got back from Baja and yes, we broke our own rule. We drove after dark---the road to Tecate.
The members of the Baja Nomad forum are all ages and all types. The common thread is a love of Baja for one reason or another or many reasons. There are off road people of all ages, surfers of all ages, explorers, lots of people who live in Baja either full or part time. While there are some who probably live on the edge, there are lots of old folks who hang out there---including me, and there are a number of Mexicans who are member. For information regarding Baja, it is a great place. It is also a great place for lots of disagreements about Baja. But when one is in need in Baja, the Baja Nomads are quick to respond.
The Baja Nomads overwhelmingly are NOT fear mongers in any way. Many do not want to change their long standing ways of traveling---leaving before the crack of dawn and hitting Baja Sur at a reasonable hour. The input from the Mexican nationals regarding the toll road situation has been very informative and interesting, so if someone is really interested, they should read all of the threads.
There needs to be no comparison between crime anywhere---just begs the issue. Things have changed, and we have adjusted---well, most of the time. Baja is still the frontier of Mexico. When stopped at one of those army stops in Baja, remember that some of those kids are not happy about being assigned to Baja---it is like being assigned to Siberia for them. Smile, talk to them, and you will have not problem.
pacific John wrote: Stan: Thanks a million. Things definitely are better than just a few years ago. The recent low mark in CA had to be 1994, when voters overwhelmingly supported kicking Mexican-American children our of school, even if they were citizens born here.
Can someone refresh my memory of this event? I have been a resident of Ca all my life and have done my duty at the polls and cannot recall any thing on any ballot "kicking American citizens who happen to be of Mexican Nationality out of school" My youngest was a senior in High School in 1994.
IMHO As far as what the OP posted,he was just sending out a heads up! This is not the first time I have heard of these type of carjacking/robberies in Baja.
Believe it or not that stuff happens around those Border towns.
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Proposition 187, had it been legal (it was not, it was modeled after a similar law in Texas which had been struck down by the Supreme Court), would have prevented the children of illegal aliens, including citizens born in the US, from going to public schools. The point is that there has been a huge, positive shift in public opinion since '94.
On the main topic, the problem with this thread it "was just sending out a heads up" to an Internet rumor. To recap, the alleged incident happened over a month ago. It did not get reported in San Diego for another two or so weeks, and none of the reports we have heard about here are consistent with each other. The entire story is very fishy, and it is not at all clear what, if anything, actually happened.
To beat this dead horse, crime does happen in border towns, and it should be reported, and reported accurately.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, frequent, unsubstantiated rumors about Mexican crime do not illuminate anything. They do not inform regular travelers who know better. They do not accurately inform the large group of potential tourists who are largely misinformed about life in Mexico, but they DO stoke anti-Mexican bias.
On edit, "kicking American citizens who happen to be of Mexican Nationality out of school" isn't a direct quote.
* This post was
edited 10/09/07 01:20am by Pacific John *
jdtrotter wrote: When stopped at one of those army stops in Baja, remember that some of those kids are not happy about being assigned to Baja---it is like being assigned to Siberia for them. Smile, talk to them, and you will have not problem.
Diane
Diane this is an interesting take on Baja (Siberia) and very true. I know this may be off topic but many mainlanders know little about their pennisula. It has always had big plans such as the Japanese coming to settle the region and now the big tourist/development boom taking place. It is changing though but I don't think Mexicans attitudes are. Getting Mexicans to move to Baja would be like the move out West during the pioneer days.
For RVers and retirees it is a paradise. I guess it is good this way. Less development in the Southern regions will help to protect its beauty.
I guess we can call the Americans who say they were carjacked liars or believe their story. I contacted the reporter and below is her response. I choose to believe the story. Skeptics, of course, can believe otherwise. My belief is not because of any anti Mexican feeling. Crime can occur anywhere but we are much more vulnerable in a foreign country particularly in an area controlled by the drug cartels.
Quote from reporter at the San Diego Union:----------------------------
> Subject: RE: 3 surfers robbed in TJ story
> From: anna.cearley@uniontrib.com
> Date: Mon, October 8, 2007 4:21 pm
> To: awfulart1@gotsky.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hi, Art. All I can say is pretty much what's out there: the surfing
> victims filed a car robbery report that included information about the
> assault. They were talking with a Mexican government representative about
> filing a formal complaint about the assault but I don't believe they have
> done that yet. They are concerned about repurcussions. I think the only
> ones who can say for sure if this happened or not are the victims
> themselves. It's quite likely an armed assault by commandos took place
> because there was a similar unofficial report, asyou may be aware of, of
> some fishermen a few weeks before the surfers were targeted. There were
> some similar characterstics in both cases. Since then, there hasn't been
> any reported assault by commandos on tourists on that
> particular road. Unfortunately, I don't have the authority to come to any
> 100 percent conclusion on the issue. I can only write what I know has been
> reported by the victims. Sorry if I can't provide anything more definitive
> at this time. Let me know if you hear of any valid leads we could pursue.
> Sincerely, Anna
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