Lance is in California where Labor is very high, Much higher that the Midwest. Lance had a very Low turnover of employees in the ninties (not sure how that is now)because they Pay well & have an excellent benefits program.
Maybe they are scrambling for qualified people now or training so many that it is bound to effect some of the units making it out the door.
Maybe they are listening to computer people and telling them dont make a finished product..send a few thousand Beta units out..LOL
Building a T/c Is a Labor intensive project. You must pack a lot of stuff in a minimal amount of s/f
Wherever you look at campers, Look to see where they are built. If it is on one of the coasts, You will Pay more.
Lance is also a Very profitable company......with them, Profit's are everything.
They sued thier insurance company for Work Comp for not paying dividends back in the early ninties and won several Million dollars ( 6. something)........Enough that they are now Self Insured!!
Also, Land costs More out on the coasts than anywhere else.......It takes alot of land to house a Factory the size of Lances newer facilities.
I dont know alot about truck campers(though I am learning at hyperspeed)
I do however understand the labor market and construction costs and I gaurantee you that no way no how is the design of ANY truck camper more difficult than ANY truck coming off the line today Yet many COST MORE!!!
If you are willing to spend 40,000 for a camper with a poor fit and finish, they Will Keep making them with poor fit & finishes...The consumer dictates what they are willing to buy and what they are willing to pay.
If you cant find a camper you are happy with for 40,000
Buy a 15 year old camper and have a Restoration specialist build you one...you'll likely get more in the end!!( If you can find one that is......)Hey, Now theres a Business just waiting for some truck camper Guru to get into.....
Forums like this one and all public forums regardless of topic are relatively new thanks to the internet. Just a few years ago we could not share our exsperiences with the whole word. With this in mind do you think the RV industry in our case is reading these forums and if they are is it making any difference. There is a lot of power here if used right.
With regards to Lance and Host and Bigfoots, Artic Fox (havent heard much from Artic Fox owners lately here???) and the rest. For some reason I just don't like Host truck campers. I have reapeadtedly looked them over. They don't sell well around here because of price mostly and the dealer here who carried them don't anymore and finally had to ship the ones he had off to another dealer to get rid of them. But I am NOT impressed with HOST at all. Some good design ideas but the cabinet quality didnt seem to match the hype nor did the rest of the rig. Bigfoot and Artic Fox in my humble opion seem to have the best cabinetly followed closely by Okanagan and Lance. I say Lance in this order because of only one thing. Their bathroom door in the 1181 seems flemsy to me. Other wise they are pretty good in the woodwork just not quite as attractive inside as the cabinets in AF and BF. One thing Lance does have is options of size and qantity of stuff. They have some of the best functionaly if not the best in the business. The way their drains are and the plumbing is pretty good. Host and BF cost too much....not that much more than Lance but you can deal for a Lance and the BF and Host dealers won't deal in my area it seems. Who knows whos best. Lance has all the optinal things down to a science and the rest are trying to catch up. I didn't say they were the best constructed because I really don't know whitch one is best in the long run, few do. We have opinions but they are just that. If you have good luck...yours is the best???? The 1191, 1131, 1181 are the easiest to get into and have the entry step down to a very good scence conpared to the lofty BF climb. I am rambling here thinking outloud because this is how I function. Hope I am not hyjacking or boring the hell outa you. I just can'f fingure out what camper is best in the long run???? And I like to stur the pot a bit to get ideas and opinions. Thank you for you time. This has NOT been a paid advertisment but mearly the ramblings of a confused camper wanna be owner.
I agree. More people need to put their foot down and quit accepting the less than par service/product. If more people spoke up I think things would slowly start changing. I know my story opened some eyes...
My compliments on many hear who have the guts to be critical of product and service.
Yes this is a great forum.
Unfortunately, when one does tell 'horror' stories, the many lurking venders and friends of venders/ manufacturers attack and stifle him.
I have not bothered posting here in months.
If you follow this forum, you will see that criticism of manufacturers who spend money on truck camper shows, is quickly re-directed, stiffled and maligned.
This is my opinion.
MY experienced opinion.
In the past, a moderator has explained to me that when a person repeatedly involves himself in threads to bash a product that he has had a bad experience with, it is reason to remove such posting. HOWEVER, if he was never permitted to fully explain, expose and present all the evidence due to redirection, and censorship, the members here never get all the story, and the poster eventually has better things to do. So this modern communication technology unfortunately is greatly reduced in effectiveness.
This friends... is MY opinion.
May all concerned posters keep up the good fight for better products and fair service!
Sorry you don't like Host. Yes, quality costs money. These campers are not for everyone. That's why they make many different types of campers, to fit many different pocketbooks. Don't fault a product because it is expensive, though. It is also a sign of a quality product. Price a Honda or a Toyota lately?
Like a Honda or Toyota, a Host camper won't do everything. If you abuse them, overload them, ask them to do things they weren't meant to do, even a quality product will break. These things need to be kept in mind when you hear people riding a product into the ground. That's all I'm asking...
I've had minor issues with my Lance 981 in the 2+ years I've owned it. Lance has always stepped up to the plate and fixed anything that needed fixing, sometimes finding issues themselves that I didn't notice.
I would buy another Lance in a heartbeat, and compared to the horror stories I see not so much here in these forums, but in the 'fixit' columns that are in both Trailer Life and Motorhome magazines I'm extremely happy with my purchase decision. After all, I could have purchased a Fleetwood MH for 100+K that was only warranteed for a year or 15,000 miles! Now that I consider to be ridiculous.
...it all comes to careless sloppy people who don't take a little extra time to see that what they are doing is done right: something that you are guilty off like the rest of us lazy-asses. Look up the word "alot" in the dictionary; I bet you don't find it, because it is NOT a word. A LOT is two words: how come you don't know that? Lazy sloppy teachers?
...I have a lurking suspicion that Leonidas W. Smiley is a myth; that my friend never knew such a personage...
Lance is in the High desert and land there is probably cheaper than where you live. Their work force speaks more Spanish than English and is constantly looking over their shoulder for the INS agents coming through the door as are most of the workers in the RV industry.
Lance is more in the "copy from others if it looks like we, the public, wants it mode" than the "we came up with a new idea mode". They will offer little if any customization. Buying from them is a "take it or leave it" proposition.
Their fit and finish is at the bottom of the ladder IMO and all you have to do is look at them and others to see this. When you push stuff out like they do a lot is missed or let go because more are behind it coming. Any how the DEALER will fix it. RIGHT? Not if you don't catch it.
Folks who think that Lance is the best are either expecting far less than most or have never looked at any thing else. In most of the country east of the Mississippi the latter is most likely true. It is Lance or nothing. Not a bad position to be in if your Lance, IMO. The less likely your customer is of seeing anything else the more likely you will sell your stuff to them.
Ignorance and lack of choice equals blissful sales.
Not a bash Lance post just calling it as I see it.
To be fair I think ALL TC builders are woefully lacking in quality and proper design and material choices. I will never buy another one again as I know I can do a far better job. For now I will fix/modify what I have and learn about what works and how to implement these changes then I will build my own using this new found knowledge and techniques to achieve what will IMO be light years ahead of the current main stream stuff out in the marketplace.
I am tired of being a sucker at my expense. I see no rush in this TC industry to change so I will do it myself. At least if it breaks I will know who to blame and I will know how it went together so I can take it apart with ease.
I, like all here, bought in good faith. The industry has taken unfair advantage of that good faith to shaft us at nearly every opportunity.
I am opting out of this lopsided, abusive system. Perhaps others will to. There may be something better to offer them that will be more to their informed tastes. Their experience is like mine. They want to have a choice between the statis quot and something better. Perhaps I will be able to offer them that choice. Time will tell.
Until then look past the pretty colors and soft fabrics. Look at the design of the structure and the mechanical fit and finish. Looking at the TC as a structure and not as a pretty room will help you see the real condition of the TC. It will tell you volumes of info IF you know what to look for.
Most of what goes into these TC's is plastic and super thin wood and fluff. The real bones are often weak and poorly joined together. Pulling back the Vail of beauty will expose these flaws.
Disconnect your strong desire for vacation travel and adventure and put your mind into care and upkeep and maintenence mode. This will help you see your new purchase in a clearer light.
Do this with your current TC and then to your new potential purchase. My guess is you will be trading in a lateral move rather than up. All at a considerable higher cost. IMO it should not be so. I bet you feel the same way.
Allen
2005 Ford F-350 CC Dually 6.0L Diesel 4x4 King Ranch loaded, Supersprings, Coolant filter, Oilguard bypass filter.
smoothetop wrote: ....HOWEVER, if he was never permitted to fully explain, expose and present all the evidence due to redirection, and censorship, the members here never get all the story, and the poster eventually has better things to do. So this modern communication technology unfortunately is greatly reduced in effectiveness. ....
It isn't that hard to get the FULL story/experience out since all it takes is to put some thought into an initial post. You can take all the time you need to do so since it gets done up on your own computer. Present the FACTS and lay out the whole experience in a single post. This give readers ALL the pertinent info to make a judgment before the thread can be hijacked/misdirected. Granted there will be people that no matter how clear-cut the situation, will refuse to acknowledge it but as long as you have truthfully laid it all out others can take your experience as food for thought.
Now jumping into a thread (or starting one) with a flame type post (NOT saying you have) that doesn't give a fair overall picture of the problem only makes the poster look bad and diminishes his credibility for what might be a VALID complaint.
2007 F350,SC,LB,4x4,6.0/Auto,35" tires,16.5 Warn,Buckstop bumpers
2007 Outfitter Apex9.5,270W solar,SolarBoost2000e,2 H2K's,2KW inverter,2 20lb LP on slide out tray,4 Lifeline AGM bats,Tundra fridge
95 Bounder 28' ClassA sold
91 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold
Should I add another little "pilot-flame" to this topic ? .... it preparation for two upcoming trips - we did a little more work on this TC.
The step over the water tank leading up to the bed needed work. The framework was falling apart. There were NO screws or glue used anywhere in this area. Just staples ...and mostly those very small ones .... ? 1/4" x 1.5" or so.
Starcraft must go through a TON of these small staples a week....if they still use them.
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