Sorry for the long post but I have to get this problem fixed.
I've been updating my trailer brake problems in this thread and I thought it best just to start a new topic to get this problem solved.
Ever since I've owned the trailer I have seen intermittent flashes of SH and OL on the Prodigy controller accompanied by loss of trailer brakes. Last year the dealership worked on the trailer for me and all seemed well. They claimed they installed all new magnets. Later in the year the problem cropped up again. This year the problem persisted but time just did not allow much camping or work on the TT. Recently I finally rewired the brakes removing several corroded wire nut connections from original series wiring. All brakes now have dedicated hot and neutral 10 gauge wires run in parallel from brass bus bars.
This past weekend we finally got out again and the problem actually seemed worse. I did not get any SH errors but now the controller will show about 2 or 2.5 on the display then flash OL and the brakes are gone.
Today I started thinking that maybe the emergency switch may be bad, so I stuck the multimeter on it. To my surprise there was no resistance between the brake lead and the neutral on the battery. I cut the switch from the brake bus bar and that was gone. So, I started probing each of the brake + wires and each showed 0 ohms resistance to neutral. I looked at the Dexter Axle web site for this info:
Dexter Axle wrote: The Dexter magnet is not a polarized component. Use one wire to connect to power from the brake controller and use the other to attach to ground. It is Dexter's recommendation that a common ground be run from the trailer plug to the magnets. Do not ground each brake individually to the trailer frame or structure. Also note that the brakes should be wired in parallel, not in series. The wire color is used to identify the component since so many Dexter magnets physically look the same on the outside, however they are different strengths for the different capacity brakes.
From that I would think the 0ohm resistance is a correct reading and that the brakes themselves are okay.
Am I right in thinking that I need to pursue Tekonsha about a faulty controller at this point? I have a version 2.4 Prodigy so maybe there's something that is not quite right. My friend's 18' tandem axle trailer has brakes on one axle and the controller works perfectly on them. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the increased current draw from 4 brakes is revealing a defect in the controller that is just leaving me scratching my head
I would love to hear any and all suggestions to get this problem fixed. Thanks for reading my rambling plea for help.
Most TT brake magnets will draw about 3 amps under full load... Using Ohms law, 12 volts divided by 3 amps = 4 ohms, so I would expect you'll see a resistance of about 4 ohms per magnet give or take... The trailer magnets are all connected in parallel and identical parallel resistances will half in value so 4 of them in parallel would be 1 ohm resistance... Depending on what type meter you were using this may or may not be what you are measuring...
I myself over a period of 8 or 9 years or so and 2 different trailers have seen the same type of short within the wheel hub... In both instances the brake magnet wire had worked it's way loose from the spring type wire clamps and the wire had fallen down and was rubbing on the inner hub... Eventually the wire insulation wore threw and a short resulted... In one instance, the copper wire itself was worn threw and I had no brake at all on the left rear wheel... If you haven't checked in this area, it would be worth doing so...
Another point that is suspect is inside the axles where the brake lines run from one side of the axle to the other... Frequently the wire will abrade inside the axle causing an intermittent short...
After a through check of all wiring, at this juncture if you haven't substituted the brake controller yet, I would say that's your next move... Perhaps there is someone who could load you another Prodigy controller you could try... If not, then I think I would talk to Tekonsha and see what they say...
Les
2000 Ford F-250SD, XLT, 4X4 Off Road, SuperCab
w/ 6.8L (415 C.I.) V-10/3:73LS/4R100
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2006 Nomad 3150 Double Slide (Bunkhouse)
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Have you cleaned the trailer/tow vehicle connector?
What about the connection at the breakaway switch?
Does your truck have a factory seven pin connector? They are in two pieces. Check the connector on the back of the truck bracket to insure the it is fully connected.
Yes by all means check for an intermittent short inside the axle. They run the wire from one side to the other T H R U the axle and eventually it wears the insulation off and you have brake problems. Re locate the wires to the outside of the axle. Use a piece of plastic conduit if you want to protect them but by all means get them out of the axle!!!! this is a common problem and can cause all kinds of symtoms. You will chase your tail and spend all kinds of $$ only to find out there is wires rubbing inside the axle. Sometimes hard to diagnose because of the bouncing while under way or while braking!!!
Likes to tow wrote: Yes by all means check for an intermittent short inside the axle. They run the wire from one side to the other THRU the axle and eventually it wears the insulation off and you have brake problems.
That's not the problem. See here:
LIKE2BUILD wrote: Recently I finally rewired the brakes removing several corroded wire nut connections from original series wiring. All brakes now have dedicated hot and neutral 10 gauge wires run in parallel from brass bus bars.
There is no wire chafed wire leading to the brakes.
LAdams wrote: I myself over a period of 8 or 9 years or so and 2 different trailers have seen the same type of short within the wheel hub...If you haven't checked in this area, it would be worth doing so...
I guess that's where I stand at this point. As I stated, the TT dealership said they put on all new magnets last year when I took it to them, but if that's the case, the problem should have been gone. Today I'm going to get the numbers off the backing plates and go to a local shop that carries Dexter axle parts to get 4 new replacement magnets. I have a friend that's an excellent mechanic, hopefully I can lean on him to install these since I don't have the time right now.
I called Tekonsha support this morning and they were less than helpful. The lady I spoke with sort of took the attitude that the All MIGHTY PRODIGY couldn't be the problem. Her response was "well you obviously have a short in the wiring system". I guess she may be right since the only time I see the error is when pulling my trailer. When she spoke of the lifetime warranty she indicated that I have to go through the retailer where I purchased the controller. They don't handle warranty replacements directly. I found that a bit strange.
enblethen wrote: Have you cleaned the trailer/tow vehicle connector?
What about the connection at the breakaway switch?
Does your truck have a factory seven pin connector? They are in two pieces. Check the connector on the back of the truck bracket to insure the it is fully connected.
The connector is fine
The breakaway switch tests fine.
Yes I'm using the GM factory 7-way connector. Although, I am getting ready to install a new 7-pin connector that I will mount in the bumper and eliminate the bracket that hangs down below my receiver.
Im going to chime in here real quick, I work for a large Midwest Utility that STILL uses electric brakes on their trailers, that haul 15,000 lbs. trenchers...Im talking a fleet of 40 trailers with electric brakes...so we are constantly working on these high maint brake systems (compared to air brakes)
What we have found when there is a problem is to work from the front to the rear...starting at the controller, then the next area is the male/female plug, we make sure we have a full 12 volts/ground at the female plug, if we do we move on to the male side of the plug, taking it apart and checking voltage there, sometimes the stranded wires will come loose and touch other terminals in the plug and cause all kinds of havok..then we move on down the line checking the wiring for any abrasions etc...if we still have not found anything the hubs come off and we inspect/test the magnets, testing is as sinple as putting a full 12 volts to the system and laying your pliers againt the magnet, if its working you will feel it pull your pliers...at this point you should have run across the problem.
One other tool we use to quickly diagnose which backing plate is not working is use a Craftsman Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer, High-Temperature, Laser-Directed
Sears item# 03450499000 Mfr. model# 42540
Just point this at the drum and you will be able to tell which brake are doing their job and which ones are not...you can also use your hands for a quick test.
One other thing, you say your break away is fine, this is one way to seperate the trailer from the tow vehicle, when you pull the break away you are putting a full 12 volts to the magnets, if they all work with the break away switch and hold, then you should be looking at the tow vehicle for the source of the problem.
Hope some of this rambling helps you out.
Nick.
One comment. DO NOT pull breakaway switch with TV brake controller connected. Some of them toast when that is done, unsure of Prodigy.
Chuck
Wonderful Wife
Lovely German Shepherd.
1999 Mercedes ML320 TV
2003 Wanderer 187TB Toybox (3620# UVW, 4800# loaded) Not yet camped in Hawaii, 2 Canada Provinces, & 2 Territories. I can't be lost because I don't care where this lovely road is going
I went nuts with a no brake problem with the last Fleetwood Wilderness I had. Notice I said "last."
The brakes finaLLY failed completely - nada, scared the bejesus out of me.
The juice was ok at the plug fron the TV. I could not get juice back to the brakes. I ran a wire directly to the brakes and they slammed on. Well here we go - I ran the brake wire/wires down starting from the axels. What I stumbled on after about what seemed like a day was that the dufus that put the wiring harness on at the factory laid it over the top of the frame. Then the dufus that put the floring on put it right on top of the wires. They finally chafed thru, shorted out and no brakes. I wired around the frame and walla great brakes until I dumped that dog.
I wonder if that dufus quit his fleetwood job and walked across the street and wored your trailer.
In desperation I would run temporary wires back to the brakes from the TV plug, cut the connection of the original wire going forward, and see what the brakes do then.
Go to someone that carries Prodigy, life time warranty, tell them it doesn't work and get new one. I had similar problem and did just that, problem solved.
Paul B
2001 Excursion-Powerstroke Diesel 2000 Honda CRV 2006 Flagstaff 31' - 7.5k lbs. 2004 Two Honda EU2000i's/parallel cables/extra fuel tank
This past weekend we finally got out again and the problem actually seemed worse. I did not get any SH errors but now the controller will show about 2 or 2.5 on the display then flash OL and the brakes are gone.
KJ
With this one statement there is one way to help sort this out. Like the other poster said:
Hitch up the TT
Pull the 7 wire from the truck
Pull the emergency break away.
Slowly try to pull forward. The brakes should lock on in only a few inches of forward movement. If no lock, well something is not right in the trailer from the breakaway backwards.
This isolates the brakes at the wheels and the breakaway to being OK or not.
The only part left is the 7 wire cable to the TV, the wiring inside the TV and the brake controller.
If you want to test the brake controller, if you can tap into the brake output wire and put a 12 volt bulb on it as a load to ground. The bulb should glow dim to full on when more brake power is applied by the manual lever. This will show you it is varying the voltage.
The only difference you then have is will the Prodigy do the same thing with 4 magnets of load draw on it? It might be giving you fits under higher currents. If you test the voltage at the time the brakes are doing this strange thing at the controller output, you can maybe trap the controller in it's act. If the voltage is cutting out, well the controller is cutting out or you have an intermittent ground in the TV. From all you tried, it points to the controller.
Let us know how it goes.
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
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