You say: "It was not until I spoke with one of the engineers that I considered the possibility that it was a "Lance" problem. This individual is not some street corner engineer....who only has a passing knowledge of regulators and propane systems........he is well known in the field. That, "Sleepy" is the reason for the title of the thread. I was not and am not pointing the finger at Lance because I decided it was unique to them. This man spent two hours on the phone with me explaining exactly why the Lance design is prone to this problem. Now, if he is incorrect, I am hard pressed to understand why he would expend the time he did.
Remember, earlier I mentioned that one of my first questions to this individual was this:
"If the design of the Lance system is at fault, then why don't all Lance owners have the same problem?" That seemed like a logical question to me. Also, you will recall that I illustrated the answer to that question with the information about the allegedly defective aircraft fuel system of which I am familiar. While all aircraft had the same system, not all aircraft experienced engine failure. I am not an engineer.......I rely on their opinions. Thus I came to the board seeking help with a Lance problem because that it what I was told it was, not because I was attempting to single them out.
In regards to taking the elbows apart...........We did that at the dealer and the oil poured out of the lines. I may not have been clear on the amount of oil involved here. Both lines were full of oil. There was enough that poured out that it would have covered the bottom of a three pound coffee can. The regulator was covered with oil and more oil was pushed out of the lines when a pressure line was hooked up at the stove. In other words a lot of oil.
In fairness to all involved. The Lance people and one of the engineers in question had a telephone conversation on this issue. I was not a party to the call.........so all I can say at this point is that it appears that both parties agreed to disagree.
All I can say at this point is that I will get new tanks, accept the fact that it may very well have been the fault of the propane supplier (who you might guess agrees with the engineer).......make sure tanks are not overfilled and hope for the best.
And for the record, the dealer (while not accepting fault either for his dealership or for Lance) offered to refund the $143.00 he charged me to drain the lines and replace the regulator. I refused the refund telling him that the jury was still out on the exact cause and I was not comfortable having him return money that his dealership had earned until we see what happens going forward. Goodness knows times are tough enough for these dealers in this economy without having to return money they earned.
Again, thanks for all the input.
HF
You and your unnamed engineer blame Lance
There are other posts that say they have had similar problems... and they don't have Lance campers.
Then you said "Thus I came to the board seeking help with a Lance problem because that it what I was told it was, not because I was attempting to single them out ."
If you have an engineer that has already told you his explaniation of the problem you say that you have... why did you have to post here for advice.
After all when you said "This individual is not some street corner engineer....who only has a passing knowledge of regulators and propane systems........he is well known in the field."
We are street corner engineers that you are talking about.
BTW... we can read... it's your words that cause me to question your motives. Others on this site are far smarter than me.
Do you have an agenda against Lance for some reason.
If there is a propane problem... fuss with the propane people.
And your title should read " I have a propane problem!"
Sleepy....I'm not sure what your problem is or what your agenda is or why you seem to be so protective of Lance. Try reading what I have written and you will clearly see that I have no agenda concerning Lance. I have read your postings and I fail to see one word of constructive comment from you, not one.........only an unabashed love affair with Lance.
Respectfully, I would ask that you if can't be part of the solution, then quit with your contentious remarks. I'm not sure what you think you accomplish with your attitude, but I'm certain you have not developed your caustic attitude overnight and have probably been told before that your attitude helps nothing.
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HaulinFun wrote: Sleepy....I'm not sure what your problem is or what your agenda is or why you seem to be so protective of Lance. Try reading what I have written and you will clearly see that I have no agenda concerning Lance. I have read your postings and I fail to see one word of constructive comment from you, not one.........only an unabashed love affair with Lance.
Respectfully, I would ask that you if can't be part of the solution, then quit with your contentious remarks. I'm not sure what you think you accomplish with your attitude, but I'm certain you have not developed your caustic attitude overnight and have probably been told before that your attitude helps nothing.
Typical Sleepy, don't let his attitude get to you.
FYI, I had a gas fitter who worked for me (residential however) that liked to call this substance "reg juice". We have cleaned generators, gas lights and many other appliances with this oil like substance.
Is the regulator above the tanks, and are the tanks horizontal?
Over the years I have read about this problem a few times. Generally, folks have problems with their propane appliances and they disconnect the hose from the regulator and a quantity of oil runs out. Of the posts that I can remember, just about all of them have been Lance campers. So what you are saying about Lance having a design issue may be the case. Here are a couple.
I don't have any pics but I probably could take one. It's about as simple as it gets. On the bottom of your change-over switch valve is where the elbow comes out and the rubber hose connects to it and goes into the camper. It's presently the low spot and you want to create a lower low spot for the oil so it doesn't block the gas flow. Some campers or gas setups may differ slightly or even have a hard pipe fastened to the elbow that goes into the camper. Replace the present elbow with a "T" the same size as the elbow and reconnect the rubber hose. The "T" you need is available at any hardware store, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc for a couple bucks. This now leaves the extra opening in the "T" pointing down. You can either cap that opening with a brass cap or plug. To catch more oil volume, put a short nipple (tube with threads on each end) in the hole if the "T" is female thread and a cap on the end of the nipple. If the "T" is male, use a female coupling (tube with threads inside) on the "T" thread and put a brass plug in the coupling end hole to seal it. Use Teflon tape or pipe compound on all threads to prevent leaks.
All you are attempting to do is create a reservoir area to catch the oil so it doesn't go in the hose low spot and stop the gas form flowing. The cap or the plug, whichever is used is to easily remove and drain the caught oil which is now in the newly created low spot.
The reason the gas can't blow the line oil thru is because after the tank high pressure gas passes thru the regulators, it then only has about 1 to 1.5 lbs pressure and that's not enough to push the oil thru so the line is plugged.
A female thread are internal threads in a hole and male threads are external threads (exposed) on a pipe, tube or stud. A cap goes on a male thread and a plug goes in a female thread.
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I have had a problem with the furnace lighting on my 815. It has electronic spark ignition. The way I got the furnace to fire is a bit unorthodox but it works in a pinch. If you go outside and smell gas when the furnace is trying to light then you have hope, I simply move my hand back and forth over the outside vent and like magic it lights when I do this. I guess it keeps enough gas in the combustion chamber for a moment, just enough to light otherwise it just seems to blow the combustion gas out. Just a heads up.
I used to have a problem with an oily residue that would build up and plug the propane regulator every few months. I found there is no really good way to clean the residue out and over time I replaced several regulators.
Then, one day I discovered the source of the residue was the high pressure hoses, between the tanks and the regulator.
What happened was, while servicing the propane system, I disconnested everything and, out of curiosity, I decided to cut open one of the hoses to see what condition the interior of the hose was in after using them for several years. (I had a new hose on hand) What I found is that the hose is made of several layers, primarily a rubber layer on the inside, a braid layer, and rubber on the outside. The interior rubber layer of my hose was very soft and spongy. I took the hose to a major propane distributor and was told that some rubbor hoses will have a chemical reaction to propane and will decay over time. Particularily when under high pressure.
What I did was replace the regulator and the high pressure hoses with high-quality hoses from the propane distributor. Since any rubber in contact with propane will gradually decay over time, I replace hoses and regulator every two years, whether they appear to have a problem or not. No more problems. As a preventive measure, I am considering replacing the low pressure hose, from the regulator to the ridged line on my TT.
As a side note, I found over the past several years that hoses from WalMart and other discount suppliers are NOT the same quality as hoses from propane distributors. They will decay quicker and I have even had them develop bubbles on the hose where the braid separated from the rubber. And, the hose end that connects to the tank tends to become brittle and break on less expensive hoses.
When you think about it, propane lines in a stick built house are ridged lines with metal flex lines to connect appliances and will operate for decades without "oil" residue interferring with burners.
The final solution may be to replace all the rubber hoses with metal flex lines. Properly secured of course, since vibrations working fittings loose could be a problem.
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