dodge guy wrote: I`de personally rahter see the cross tube through the side plates and then plug weld the cross tube! if you have a weld break on the butt welded cross tube that would not be good.
Dodge Guy
I agree a weld fail is a bad thing any day. And personally I do like the square tube inserted in the side plate. However we can’t seem to get away from the weld somewhere along the way in conventional towing hitches. The Ford SD receiver while it has a square tube thru a square hole in the side plate, still has a all welded together pin box.
See here
The weld has to be right regardless which end it is on.
Over the years both Ford and GM have made sq tube torque tubes that go thru the end plates and inserted the 2" pin box inside the torque tube. Just this weekend I was camping with a bud and he had a 2005 EX, His Ex had that square thru the end plates and pin box inserted in the torque tube. As far as looks, it looked better then my stock SD receiver. Your 2002 EX I do not know if it had the upgraded reciever. The older Ex's where not rated as high and I do not know what year the rating where up'ed. His 2005 had a 1,250# WD rating on it just like the F250 and F350 SRW Super Duty.
Yet the weld still remains on all of them to hold the pin box in place so it will not pull out while towing. While the sq tube in a sq hole will give some relief for the stain of WD on the receiver, the Reese HP hitch head I have has the C shaped clevis that goes around the shank welded to the forged head. So that weld is still both pulling and WD.
I agree the less welds the better, but we can't seem to get away from it with conventional hitch equipment. The weld has to be right or else is is going to be a real bad day.
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we where camping!)
In the Excursion, the receiver hitch is designed as the last crossmember of the frame system. As a passenger vehicle, the collision protection requirements differ from that of a pick up in the rear. A receiver hitch is required to complete that frame, towing or not. The rating was upped around the 2002 model year. Here is some background...
The bolting system was recalled on some of the earliest (2000-2001) Excursions, due to a manufacturing process oversight. The frames were coated with wax prior to the installation of the hitch, and wax lingering on the lower flange of the frame became sandwiched between the bottom surface of this flange and the top surface of the top mounting flange of the receiver's side plate. Temperature changes created a variance in the fastner torque. Wax melted, softened, loss of required fastner torque.
A hardware service kit was issued, along with a instructions to remove all wax from the lower flange of the frame where the hitch mounted. The hardware kit is cool... As a bit of a nut case myself, I can always appreciate other nuts, and these nuts came caged in pairs, spanned by a non-welded plate that kept the nuts from rotating when torqued. The fact that the anti rotation plate wasn't welded onto the nut kept the nuts metallurgy intact. And the fact that the nuts were paired got around the typical flag nut issue where the flag tang beats against the frame web when torqued with an impact wrench. Ok, this tang-ent is bordering on nuts...
In production, the necessary changes were made to prevent this from happening to the newer models. Huckbolt type of fastners were used that are not serviceable without destruction and replacement. Like I said, every Excursion has a receiver from the factory. It is not an option. I don't think too many aftermarket hitch companies offer replacement hitches of the Excursion. It is not an easy hitch to remove or "upgrade."
The newer Ex's, like the 2005 at least, are riveted on in one place on each side. If someone wants to get it off, it is going to be work.
The topic of after market Ex receiver has come up often. The normal producers, Reese, Curt, Valley etc do not offer them. The last I heard some place out west will custom make you one but they have to install it. They will not sell it uninstalled. The exact name of the place deos not come to mind but it is here on the forum somewhere.
Even Pull-Rite will NOT remove the factory receiver on my Ex. Pulliam (who makes Pull-Rite) is right up the road from me about 60 miles...I called them to ask if they could remove my factory receiver and install the Pull-Rite...they would NOT do it...their only installation option on the Excursion is BELOW the factory receiver.
Speaking of welds: Why do most hitch companies say to not weld on their hitches? They obviously do when they build them. The steel looks like normal structural tube and plate steel and doesn't appear to be hardneable (i.e. low carbon). So, what's the deal?
The 2005 and forward F250/350 and 450 all share the same 7 mm thick frame that has the same section modulus and 36KSI frame strength.
If I was to order a new truck, the dealer could have a F450 receiver installed on a F350 SRW truck. Or at least the one who was pushing me to a F350 Dully to handle a 1,400# tongue weight TT.
I tried to find a technical reason on why the F350 SRW receiver was so low, but could not find one that seemed technically sound. However I was still doing better then my buddy with his 2002 Dodge Ram 3500 dually with a 1,000# WD receiver as stock.
John
My 08 F350 dually 2-1/2" receiver is labeled as:
w/o the adapter:
WD 16,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 1,600 Max tongue weight
WC 8,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 800 Max tongue weight
with the adapter:
WD 12,500 Max Gross trailer weight; 1,250 Max tongue weight
WC 6,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 600 Max tongue weight
Bob
07 K-Z Montego Bay 34RLB-3
08 F-350 Dually 4x4 Crewcab; 4.10LS; auto; 6.4 PSD; wide track front axle
N5BUJ
Albin wrote: Speaking of welds: Why do most hitch companies say to not weld on their hitches? They obviously do when they build them. The steel looks like normal structural tube and plate steel and doesn't appear to be hardneable (i.e. low carbon). So, what's the deal?
Thanks,
Al
That's how they limit their liability. They have no idea what someone's welding experience may be or what or why the welding is being done, so have no control over how it may affect their hitch. So as a disclaimer, they specify no welding at all. The steel is nothing special. It can be welded and if you know what you're doing and are willing to take on that liability yourself, weld it up. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't mess with it.
dodge guy wrote: I`de personally rahter see the cross tube through the side plates and then plug weld the cross tube! if you have a weld break on the butt welded cross tube that would not be good.
Dodge Guy
I agree a weld fail is a bad thing any day. And personally I do like the square tube inserted in the side plate. However we can’t seem to get away from the weld somewhere along the way in conventional towing hitches. The Ford SD receiver while it has a square tube thru a square hole in the side plate, still has a all welded together pin box.
See here
The weld has to be right regardless which end it is on.
Over the years both Ford and GM have made sq tube torque tubes that go thru the end plates and inserted the 2" pin box inside the torque tube. Just this weekend I was camping with a bud and he had a 2005 EX, His Ex had that square thru the end plates and pin box inserted in the torque tube. As far as looks, it looked better then my stock SD receiver. Your 2002 EX I do not know if it had the upgraded reciever. The older Ex's where not rated as high and I do not know what year the rating where up'ed. His 2005 had a 1,250# WD rating on it just like the F250 and F350 SRW Super Duty.
Yet the weld still remains on all of them to hold the pin box in place so it will not pull out while towing. While the sq tube in a sq hole will give some relief for the stain of WD on the receiver, the Reese HP hitch head I have has the C shaped clevis that goes around the shank welded to the forged head. So that weld is still both pulling and WD.
I agree the less welds the better, but we can't seem to get away from it with conventional hitch equipment. The weld has to be right or else is is going to be a real bad day.
John
If the fillet welds joining the cross tube to the side plates are done properly, those welds will be stronger than the base metals they are joining together. There is no need for the tube to penetrate the plate from a strength perspective, if welded properly.
Welded properly means-
-proper selection of the filler metal for base metals being welded (stick electrode type, mig wire and gas type, or flux wire type)
-proper current (or voltage and wire speed for wire processes) settings for the electrode size/type and base metal type/thickness, joint type and position
-proper pre-weld preparation of the base metals (clean the metal before welding)
-proper execution of the weld (arc length, travel angle, work angle, travel speed, oscillation or weave technique if used, etc) to accomplish the proper weld attributes (root penetration, toe wet-in, joint fill size, bead profile, etc)
Basicaly, if you know what you're doing, the welded joint will be strong enough for the task at hand, provided the part has been properly designed to handle the intended load.
If the fillet welds joining the cross tube to the side plates are done properly, those welds will be stronger than the base metals they are joining together. There is no need for the tube to penetrate the plate from a strength perspective, if welded properly.
Welded properly means-
-proper selection of the filler metal for base metals being welded (stick electrode type, mig wire and gas type, or flux wire type)
-proper current (or voltage and wire speed for wire processes) settings for the electrode size/type and base metal type/thickness, joint type and position
-proper pre-weld preparation of the base metals (clean the metal before welding)
-proper execution of the weld (arc length, travel angle, work angle, travel speed, oscillation or weave technique if used, etc) to accomplish the proper weld attributes (root penetration, toe wet-in, joint fill size, bead profile, etc)
Basicaly, if you know what you're doing, the welded joint will be strong enough for the task at hand, provided the part has been properly designed to handle the intended load.
Yes you are so very right. I do not fear welding, it has to be done right. We buy custom made ASME Section VIII pressure vessels for work and then put machinery inside them. The main vessels are submerged arc welded. If you do not trust welds, better not work around pressure vessels...
The 2005 and forward F250/350 and 450 all share the same 7 mm thick frame that has the same section modulus and 36KSI frame strength.
If I was to order a new truck, the dealer could have a F450 receiver installed on a F350 SRW truck. Or at least the one who was pushing me to a F350 Dully to handle a 1,400# tongue weight TT.
I tried to find a technical reason on why the F350 SRW receiver was so low, but could not find one that seemed technically sound. However I was still doing better then my buddy with his 2002 Dodge Ram 3500 dually with a 1,000# WD receiver as stock.
John
My 08 F350 dually 2-1/2" receiver is labeled as:
w/o the adapter:
WD 16,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 1,600 Max tongue weight
WC 8,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 800 Max tongue weight
with the adapter:
WD 12,500 Max Gross trailer weight; 1,250 Max tongue weight
WC 6,000 Max Gross trailer weight; 600 Max tongue weight
Bob
Bob, Thanks for the clarification. I was using the 2007 Ford Source book for my info. Seems yours is just like the F450. Wonder if Ford changed this in 2008 to only have 1 larger reciever.
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