When you think your all done with getting the correct license who knows what you really got. Sounds like the California DMV doesn't know what the difference and what requires an "endorsement to a Class C" license or a "Non-Commercial Class A" license. One person will give you an Endorsement to a Class C while another will give you a Non-Commercial Class A license regardeless of your trailer weight. (below 15,000lbs. or over 15,000lbs.) By the way, the guy over in the toyhauler's forum is towing a 17,000lb. trailer. He got nailed for not having a "Non-Commercial Class A" license. I think the CHP is really looking for people towing heavy trailers without a non-commercial class A license.
Spent 3 hours at the DMV last week. In California, a motorhome over 40 requires non-commercial class B. Physical, 20 question written test, and a road test or driving test. The DMV employees have no clue. Oh, and a $30 fee to boot.
Then on top of all this, you need someone with at least a class B to drive you to your DMV driving test. If not, they won't give you the test.
RickP & DamonHornet: You are both struggling with a problem I've dealt with for years and to wit: There is NO alternative to the CDL required for a TRAILER over 10,000#'s. The inspector who suggested circle checks, log book keeping etc., were NOT required for RV's was simply making that up. There are NO RV exceptions in the reg's requiring a CDL. There is no mention of "RV use only" lettering in the reg's. The ONLY exemptions from CDL requirement based on weights are for Farm Use only. If your truck is rated for GVWR over 4500KG's you will also require a CVOR and current emissions sticker regardless if you are running commercial or not, and regardless if you hold a CDL, NO exceptions. The regs are very specific in Ontario and various MOT officials are simply choosing to "over-look" the pertinent sections pertaining to "weights" as they would apply to someone towing their triple slide 5'er with a 4500 series truck, but one day the crunch will come and the "fecal matter will hit the rotating air circulation device".
July of last year, a MOT circular was generated to effectively clear some of the confusion regarding 450 & 550 series of trucks that came from the factory with a pick-up bed being in the GVWR class for CVOR requirement and while the circular stated these vehicles were exempt from CVOR requirement it went further to explain that if that factory installed pick-up box were removed or modified in ANY way, flat bed or purpose built rv toter body with cabinets etc but NOT including the installation of a 5th wheel hitch - - Hello CVOR! Their resoning was that as long as the factory installed pick-up bed was still in place the truck was LESS LIKELY to be "commercially suitable" but as soon as modifications other than the installation of a 5th wheel hitch were done, the truck automatically falls back under the CVOR requirements.
We need some kind of RV-specific licensing regulations that would allow for a NON-COM class "A" or other creation.
We need some kind of large tow-vehicle, RV-specific, registration system that would allow for a non-commercial registration.
British Columbia is currently studying the possibility of allowing the conversion of a former commercial truck to an RV specific duty to be allowed a specific registration to exempt it from the Commercial reg's but to my knowledge Ontario still has it's collective MOT heads up their A---s.
Today is just the tomorrow you worried about yesterday!
'04' International 4400 LoPro 310Hp/950FtLbs 10Spd Harley/RV Toter
'05' Mobile Suites 38RL3
'01' Harley Ultra in the bike barn.
Bruce
I think the "fecal matter" has already started hitting the "rotating air circulation device" for some, especially given the massive fine for invalid insurance while towing out-of-class. I see huge 5th wheels rolling down highway 400 every day and suspect that very few drivers are aware that their Class G license is invalid.
FYI, I did find a link from last year's reg changes where it says house trailers are exempt from daily inspections:
For personal RV use, a CVOR registration is no more than a tax grab and I suspect that the inspectors will continue to be reasonable on the 'modification' clause, unless someone gives them a reason not to be. That said, I agree that a different system (or at least a more consistent definition of Commercial Vehicle) is in order.
Why are we exempt from weigh stations? it's not in the regs.
If we need a commercial truck licence to pull our trailers then we are commercial trucks so we should start crowding the weigh stations and slowing the truck traffic down see if that gets things changed.
LOL
As I said I have a D class but I'm going to get the trailer weighed just to make sure it is with in my class.
Is the 4600kg dry or fully loaded, rated or actual weight?
Andy and Jennifer Moses
Son Trevor (14)
Daughter Lauren (7)
and the 3 fir balls Frodo, Hobbit and Arwen that love the trailer just hate the trip to get there.
5er 99 29' Damon Hornet (BONNIE)
T/V 97 GMC C3500 4 door long box (CLYDE)
Hamilton Ont. Canada
Today I went to the CA DMV and was presented an app. for the RV endosement I requested. I filled it out, was fingerprinted, photogaphed, and gave my official signature. Then took a 20 ques. test, which I passed, and was issued a temp endorsement 'till I receive a new lic with the endorsement in two weeks. It cost nothing and I was in and out in an hour. My 5er has a gvwr of 12,400 lbs. So I'm good to go. I did expect some hangups but they never happened. The DMV lobby has books with all the info and a web site where you can take sample tests, none of which were on my test, but the RV publication was good enough to allow me to pass the test. I would only wonder why it shouln't be that clear anywhere. I only knew I needed the endorsement by reading about it on this forum last thurs. I think when a person registers an RV the DMV office should put a notice of the laws re: RV towing. Happy Trails.
"HI HO SILVER" 2002 Silverado LT 2500HD XCAB SB 4X4
8.1L 5spd ALLISON 4.10 gears
PullRite 16K SUPERGLIDE w/SUPER RAILS
2004 HOL RMBLR Alumascape 30 SKS
ilvtravln wrote: I went to take the endorsment test last year and the DMV employee who got me started said she had been there 20 years and I was the first one she ever gave the test to. Its no big test but I brought the RV brocure with me to show them what to do. Each time I went to the desk to talk to an employee it required about 3 of them to huddle together to figure things out.
Ditto.......I had the same problem with the DMV. I got there at 8.30 and was seen right away, but it took 2 hours to figure the whole thing out. They had to call Sacramento for the answers. What a hassle.
SPENDING LESS TIME ON THE COMPUTER AND MORE TIME RVING IS GOOD......YES!
2008 Jayco Eagle291 RLTS 35.4'
2007 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9 CTD Quad Cab Short Bed 4x4
Pullrite 16K Super Glide Slider Hitch
Tekonsha P3 Brake Control
Wonderful Wife - Susan
Ditto-Min Pin Dog
The whole thing is pretty simple. It only costs if you would have to renew your license with 6 mo., and then you have to take the written tests for your other classes that you may have. Other than that, you just have to help walk them through it. They are all learning something new on this. The CHP is way ahead on this one. I think all the CHP is trying to do is get the drivers of these rigs to understand a little more about what they are doing rather than on the job training
of something many have never been around before. Any little bit of info. is better than none. Maybe there should be some sort of PSA on radio or tele. I don't know. I can understand, but they sure are leaving people confused.
See 'ya on top
snownyet wrote: Id guess the DMV doesnt know what you need because 9 out of 10 people probably dont have the endorsement, so its not a popular DMV topic. Im in NY its my understanding we have a similar law although I dont know a soul with the endorsement, for me I'll save my time by avoiding the DMV and not getting the endorsement.In the rare event I get a ticket I'll pay the fine for driving out of class. In the long run it'll be cheaper than the added cost of the new license classification.
Actually if you live in NY we don't need the endorsement! Check this out
(From the site)
Changes for Drivers with Current Class D Licenses. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:
A truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. (Before, a Class D driver could only operate a vehicle with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less.), and
A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, and
A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs., but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a personal use vehicle (for example a rental vehicle or a recreational vehicle or RV) with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or more, but the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the two vehicles together must be 26,000 lbs. or less.
Rick: Thanks for the clarificatiuon and the compliment.
DamonHornet: My understanding of the reg's is: all GVW's referred to are "rated" and not actual. At salesperson's (experienced) suggestion, we requested our GVWR be set at 23,500lbs from factory to avoid the mandatory CDL/A but it gall's the h-ll out of me that a motorhome weighing over that can go down the road with a "G" licensee and no CVOR without even warranting a glance from the fed's!
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