Damon I would not worry to much about it as the MTO dude told me once your over the boarder your ok. The issue is here if you get into a jam here and the MTO gets involved your in a heap of******most OPP cops And all city cops don't have a clue themselves and remember the MTO will have to have scales in their car to catch you over weight or near a set of scales chances are remote of getting caught.
2008 Fuzion 373
2008 GMC 3500 Summit White CC Dually 4x4 Duramax SLE Sunroof DVD player 8'6" Arctic Plow 20 Drawtite 5th Wheel Hitch
1997 Seadoo GTX
1969 Dodge Charger R/T 440 Mag
2005 GMC 3500 SRW 4x4 Onyx Black
We usually just camp local within a couple hours driving, only been over the boarder once so far. I have a DZ now got it before the back went out on me. had surgery about 15-16 years ago now not had any trouble with it since so probably not an issue.
My point was people that have some health issues that would prevent them from driving a truck 8 hours a day as a job should not stop them from pulling a camper a couple hours a couple times a week.
Truckers drive for a living 365 days a year some times 8+ hours a day on the road they make money with their licence they can right off the cost of the training and retesting needed to maintain there licence on their income tax.
I don't mind having an endorsement added to my existing licence but why should we have the same costs as a trucker to enjoy camping for half the year on weekends? we can't right off the expenses on our taxes. (That I know of)
Andy and Jennifer Moses
Son Trevor (14)
Daughter Lauren (7)
and the 3 fir balls Frodo, Hobbit and Arwen that love the trailer just hate the trip to get there.
5er 99 29' Damon Hornet (BONNIE)
T/V 97 GMC C3500 4 door long box (CLYDE)
Hamilton Ont. Canada
Rick P. wrote: DamonHornet
You're supposed to have a Class A license to tow anything with a gross weight of over 4600 kg (10,000 pounds) or if your combination is over 11,000 kg. Above 4,600 kg your Ontario Class G license is invalid, which makes your insurance invalid. The local MTO inspectors started targeting 5th wheels with 3 axles or 2 or more slides last summer on Highway 400 and the fines start at either $5k or $10k. They fine for not having valid insurance in addition to driving out-of-class. The inspector I spoke to said that for a personal vehicle towing an RV you don't have to do circle checks (although it's still a good idea), keep a daily log or stop with the commercial vehicles at the inspection stations. I don't think you need a medical for non-commercial applications but can't find the link on the MTO web site.
Rick
DamonHornet wrote: as far as I've heard so far no special licence needed up here in Ontario Canada
Rick did the MTO inspector you spoke with clarify how the towed trailer weight is to be measured. The Truck handbook says over total gross weight of 4600kg however another poster on here from Windsor has been told by a MTO inspector that it's the measured trailer axle weight. Total gross weight in my mind would include pin weight, while axle weight excludes the pin weight. I have asked for clification form the MTO and have received no response. Today I spoke directly to a OTR truck driver trainer from a local truck driver training school and he had absolutely no idea. He in fact thought that ir the combination weight of TV and towed trailer was over 4600kg that you needed a Class A. I had to show him on my G license where it stated towed trailer over 4600kg.
2001 Newmar Kountry Star 34BLDS 2001 Ford F350 CC SRW V10 4.30LS
Damon if you got your DZ already and it is valid you do not need a medical to go get your AZ. i went and wrote my a this week did not need a medical mine was still valid for another year from my DZ. I'm going to get my A with my single axle with juice brakes with a trailer with a bobcat on it screw the mto half of them don't have a clue. They will make you write a written for your Z again witch is bs i argued with them about that and lost, I passed the test but my point was i already have it why do i have to take it again dumb bastards.
They use the registered gross weight of the trailer unless it is obviously wrong. For example, if the dealer's paperwork for your trailer used the unloaded weight as the weight of the trailer and that was the weight given to the MTO for registration they will go by that (Hmmmm - might help to stay on good terms with your dealer...). However, if you try to pass a 3-axle toy hauler off as having a gross weight of under 4600 kg expect to be challenged.
What I found interesting was that for the actual test he said I could borrow a 3-axle equipment trailer from my brother or something else with a gross weight of over 4600 kg and bring it unloaded. Doing so would be technically illegal but given the apparent lack of documented class A testing and licensing procedures specifically for people pulling big trailers with personal pickup trucks the inspectors seem to be using common sense. This might not be the case in every region though so you should check with your local office and see what they say.
Rick
gitane59 wrote:
Rick did the MTO inspector you spoke with clarify how the towed trailer weight is to be measured. The Truck handbook says over total gross weight of 4600kg however another poster on here from Windsor has been told by a MTO inspector that it's the measured trailer axle weight. Total gross weight in my mind would include pin weight, while axle weight excludes the pin weight. I have asked for clification form the MTO and have received no response. Today I spoke directly to a OTR truck driver trainer from a local truck driver training school and he had absolutely no idea. He in fact thought that ir the combination weight of TV and towed trailer was over 4600kg that you needed a Class A. I had to show him on my G license where it stated towed trailer over 4600kg.
I think that the general opinion is that we'll get an "A" licence if we are required to have it. What bothers me is that there isn't any real kind of exam and test procedure built to accommodate RVer's with large trailers. That's the thing that has me pi**ed and needs to be addressed. I suggested to the Minister, that we be able to be given an "A" or "G" licence with an RV endorsement after passing a specific exam and driving test. I suppose if I get dinged by the MTO, I'll have to challenge it in court. It may be the only way to get the Ministry off of their butt-ends.
Helen & George VE3INB and Max (Bichon Frise) 06 Silverado LT 2500HD D/A 2006 Crossroads Cruiser CF30SK
Prodigy Brake Controller
16K Reese Slider with a Bedsaver
Rick:
"Determining Registered Gross Weights for Trucks Towing Recreational and Light Duty Trailers
The registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for truck licence plates. The truck's RGW is based on, and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or truck and trailer(s) and load(s). A trailer permit does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer(s) and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer."
I have taken the previous paragraph directly from the MTO website. The underlined sentence states the trailer permit has no RGW so your statement cannot be true fact. Are you refering to the weight of the trailer as indicated on your ownership certificate? this is the GVWR of the trailer not it's RGW. RGW pertains to jurisdictional licensing permits costs.
Rick P. wrote: They use the registered gross weight of the trailer unless it is obviously wrong. For example, if the dealer's paperwork for your trailer used the unloaded weight as the weight of the trailer and that was the weight given to the MTO for registration they will go by that (Hmmmm - might help to stay on good terms with your dealer...). However, if you try to pass a 3-axle toy hauler off as having a gross weight of under 4600 kg expect to be challenged.
What I found interesting was that for the actual test he said I could borrow a 3-axle equipment trailer from my brother or something else with a gross weight of over 4600 kg and bring it unloaded. Doing so would be technically illegal but given the apparent lack of documented class A testing and licensing procedures specifically for people pulling big trailers with personal pickup trucks the inspectors seem to be using common sense. This might not be the case in every region though so you should check with your local office and see what they say.
Rick
gitane59 wrote:
Rick did the MTO inspector you spoke with clarify how the towed trailer weight is to be measured. The Truck handbook says over total gross weight of 4600kg however another poster on here from Windsor has been told by a MTO inspector that it's the measured trailer axle weight. Total gross weight in my mind would include pin weight, while axle weight excludes the pin weight. I have asked for clification form the MTO and have received no response. Today I spoke directly to a OTR truck driver trainer from a local truck driver training school and he had absolutely no idea. He in fact thought that ir the combination weight of TV and towed trailer was over 4600kg that you needed a Class A. I had to show him on my G license where it stated towed trailer over 4600kg.
I took the RV endorsement test here in California over a year ago and was never sent a new license. All they gave me was a small white card that says I have the endorsement. It was a pain to get anybody at the DMV that knew anything about this deal.
I still need the Non-Comm. "A" cause the darn trailers GVWR is over 15,001LBS. Time to quit talking about it and go Get-R-Done.
For those of you from B.C. you might want to check out the ICBC site under BC Government, Licencing, and or search for Code 51 endorsement.
"Trailer Weight
The class of driver's licence or licence endorsement you need to tow a
trailer depends on its weight. For driver licensing purposes, trailer weight means its actual on-road
weight at the time it is being towed. For example, you may have an RV
trailer that weighs 4,000 kg when empty. You may tow it empty with a
Class 5 or 7 driver's licence. However, when equipped with furniture and
stored water, food and other items, the weight can be considerably more. A
Class 5 or 7 driver’s licence may not be suffi cient to tow the loaded trailer.
"Drive with Care, Life has no Spare!"
2007 Dodge, 2500HD, 5.9 CTD, QC, SB, TRX4, Rhino Liner, Undercoat, Jack Rabbit Tonneau, Pullrite SuperSlider, Prodigy.
2007 Arctic Fox, 24-5N, replacing Roadtrek 190V 220,000km.
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