chester05
Princeton
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Hi All,
Need some advice...We liked Rving so much the first year we traded in our 2007 Cedar Creek Silverback for a 2008 Four Winds Chateau C class. We shopped around and decided on a dealership-test drove a 2007 but decided to wait until they got a 2008 in as we told them we wanted the heavier front suspension and tow capacity on the 2008 E-450. So before we traded in our 2008 F-450 truck and our 2007 Cedar Creek 5th wheel we again made sure with the salesman and the staff that the most important thing was the towing capacity for us because we travel heavy and were trading our truck in for a Explorer to tow. They assured us, even showed us the 2008 brochure so on..... That was the last week of Nov. 07'. So a friend of my husband says "you better check the tow capacity before you get the tow vehicle ready for spring with hookups" So to please him I call Ford and they say I have to speak to their RV division and they say it's a 2007 chassis not a 2008 she also went on to say this has nothing to do with Ford and she couldn't help - says contact manufacturer and RV dealership. The dealership never told me my 2008 Chateau was on a 2007 E-450 Chassis when they damn well knew we were waiting for the 2008 for specific reasons. My first instinct was to call dealership and start screaming, but I calmed down and sent my lawyer an email. So now we traded in a perfectly good truck for a perfectly useless tow vehicle and traded in a perfectly good 5th wheel for something we didn't want. What would you all do? Thanks!
2005 F-350 Crew Cab King Ranch Short Bed Diesel
2006 30LSTS Cedar Creek 5th Wheel
2006 BMW X5 4.4
2004 Harley Davidson Softtail Heritage Classic
2005 Harley Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide
DH DS 13
Rocky 120 lb. Rotti
Chester 8 lb. Pomeranian
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klhutch
Sububan Chicago
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chester05 wrote:What would you all do? Thanks!
I don't follow all the ins and outs of chassis variations over the model years but I would triple check the numbers to make sure that it won't do what you need to do.
I would also see if there were any chassis mods that could be done to bring it up to the 2008 spec. They might be expensive but if they are feasible they might get you what you want. Using a lawyer to beat on an RV dealer is just going to be expensive with little in the way of reward, I fear.
I am sorry that you did not know this in advance. Some do, many don't. It is very, very common for motorhomes to be built on the previous year's chassis. In fact early in the model year for a MH it is almost universal for the chassis to be the chassis OEM's previous model year. Late in the run the chassis MY might catch up to the coach MY. The cutover from 2007 MY chassis to 2008 MY chassis depends on when the MH maker happens to run out of 2007s. If he severely overbought 2007s and the MH market tanks he might build his 2009 MY product on a 2007 chassis. I don't know that there is any law that regulates this.
This information comes too late to help you this time. Be sure to keep it in mind if you ever buy a new class C in the future, or even a used one. If the chassis MY is important to you, research it carefully before signing the contract or stipulate the MY in the contract.
Ken
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chester05
Princeton
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Thanks Ken I certainly do wish I had known before the purchase. Never did the dealership or salesman mention when we were waiting for the 2008 to come in that it may not be on a 2008 chassis since they knew why we wanted the 2008 chassis. I mean we even had the salesman ask the service department about the particular towing capacity of said vehicle we were buying.
I guess I give people too much credit for being some what honest. But I do feel this has got to fall under misrepresentation of a vehicle. But how would an unsuspecting person buying a motorhome suppose to know the chassis year build could differ from the coach year build? Would not this be the dealerships responsibility for disclosing to buyer or having it documented on paper, warranty? Especially when they told us specifically the one on order (2008) would have the higher tow capacity. When I called Ford they said the dealership didn't even have it showing as sold; I have a wrapping 4 year warranty Ford/FourWinds.
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az99
N.Y.
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And to make it even worse when you go to sell it in 5-6 years the VIN will show the buyer it is a 2007 even though Four Winds calls it a 2008. I ran into this when trying to purchase a unit and it is a very common (for the RV Industry) situation. I also ran into it with a trailer that was sold as an 06 but the VIN plate clearly showed 05 build. I really do not know how they get away with it without disclosing it to the customer. When major chassis upgrades occur on a new model year like you describe it is a big problem. Hopefully your attorney will force a buyback or replacement. Good Luck
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MNtundraRet
Bloomington, MN
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There is a big difference in the looks of a 2007 and 2008 Ford E450 Chasis. I do not understand how the salesman, yourself, and others at the dealer did not notice that the motor-home was on the old chasis.
Mark & Jan "Old age & treachery win over youth & enthusiasm"
2003 Fleetwood Jamboree 29
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klhutch
Sububan Chicago
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Whether this was due to dishonesty or stupidity on the part of the dealer it is inexcusable. The dealer surely knows what I just told you. He may not have known if any given incoming unit is on a given year's chassis but he knew it was critical to you and he knows how to check after the unit arrives. He should not have closed the deal with you on a unit he knew or could have known did not meet your clearly stated needs.
I don't know if you can successfully use your lawyer to force a satisfactory settlement with the dealer. I am not a lawyer and even if I were your state's laws would most likely be unfamiliar to me. I would guess that this could devolve into a you said, dealer said matter that you cannot win unless you have it documented in writing. Your lawyer should be able to evaluate that for you. You might also have some recourse with your state's attorney general or consumer fraud department. Those might be cheaper than hiring your own attorney if they will investigate the case. Or, you might still need an attorney to work along with them. I don't know I can only offer guesses.
I really would investigate upfitting the chassis to the 2008 spec. If it is possible it might end up being cheaper for you and with a little pressure from your lawyer the dealer might be convinced to pay for half of it rather than face a court battle. I agree that you should not have to pay anything but often it is better to accept a compromise that gets you the product you wanted rather than to risk all on a lawsuit that could fail.
Ken
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mfa
Florida
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az99 wrote:And to make it even worse when you go to sell it in 5-6 years the VIN will show the buyer it is a 2007 even though Four Winds calls it a 2008. I ran into this when trying to purchase a unit and it is a very common (for the RV Industry) situation...
Your state motorvehicle title should show it as a 2008. If not, they made a mistake in titling it and should correct it. That's what happened to me when I bought a 2006 Gulf Stream Super-C built on a Chevy C5500 2005 chassis. The State of Florida sent me a title listing it as a 2005 vehicle, based on the VIN number. When I asked them about it, they acknowledged the error and sent me a new title showing it as a 2006. The manufacturer's Certificate of Origin determines the model year.
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chester05
Princeton
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MNtundraRet wrote:There is a big difference in the looks of a 2007 and 2008 Ford E450 Chasis. I do not understand how the salesman, yourself, and others at the dealer did not notice that the motor-home was on the old chasis.
We had a 5th wheel for 1 yr. and when shopping around at dealerships no one every told us the chassis could be a different year from the coach. We did notice the grille was not the truck style and was the van style and when we inquired after we placed our order for a 2008 Chateau 31f and it came in with the van style grill the saleman stated "they are going to use all the van grilles in stock first before they use the new ones" We read somewhere that the 2008 e450 was re-engineered front suspension new valve technology on the rear shock absorbers and upgrades to the steering system and the new braking system features as well as the increased gvwr and gawr. All of this made us order the 2008 and when we asked the salesman he was sure the coach had all the upgrades he said "oh yes, look here in the brochure". All the paperwork I have has the chassis vin number only (odometer reading, warranty, sales order form, sales contract) and that is when I found out the chassis was a 2007 on the advise of a friend to find out for sure (by calling Ford) before we had the tow vehicle stuff connected. btw when I called Ford the dealership has not put in the system the vehicle was sold as as 12/1/07 and I had to put in their system our information. I don't believe I should have known this having been my first motorhome, if the dealership was honest they would explain that the chassis could be a different year from the coach etc.... Especially when you have made it known you were buying for specific features in that year chassis. My lawyer has asked for copies of the brochure along with copies of all my paperwork and I will post when I get more information. Thanks.
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ebourassa
Brooklyn, CT
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Before I bought my Class C, which is 2007 31p on a 2006 chassis, i shopped around and was comparing two dealers, the first dealer told me his was better because it was an 08 and had a better warranty and better suspension, so i went to look at his and long an behold it was truly an 07 chassis with an 08 box but since i already did my homework on the 08 i knew it right away, after questioning him about it he said that he never said that, well guess where i bought mine, I dont like people who try to waist my time. Just goes to show they will tell you anything before you buy it and deny everything after you bought it.
hope everything works out for you I am sure your not alone on this
good luck
erik
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klhutch
Sububan Chicago
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chester05 wrote:MNtundraRet wrote:There is a big difference in the looks of a 2007 and 2008 Ford E450 Chasis. I do not understand how the salesman, yourself, and others at the dealer did not notice that the motor-home was on the old chasis.
We had a 5th wheel for 1 yr. and when shopping around at dealerships no one every told us the chassis could be a different year from the coach. We did notice the grille was not the truck style and was the van style and when we inquired after we placed our order for a 2008 Chateau 31f and it came in with the van style grill the saleman stated "they are going to use all the van grilles in stock first before they use the new ones"
Two things about this. Yes, the grills are vastly different but any given consumer may or may not know what this means. Until someone else mentioned this in this thread even I forgot to point it out and I not only knew about it, I've been on dealer's lots recently and have seen both grills in stock. It is one thing you could have used to protect yourself and it sounds like you did ask the right questions when you saw the different grills but this did not protect you because ...
... your dealer lied to you. You might be confused about the grills, I might be confused about the grills, the dealer knows all there is to know about the grills and what they imply about the chassis model year! I don't believe there were any MY 2008 chassis built with the old grill and the dealer would know this, absolutely for sure. Even if there were some 2008s with the old grill the old grill told the dealer, without any doubt, that he had to double check the model year for you to be certain that it was a 2008. Obviously he did not do this and I don't think there is a reasonable chance that he was doing anything else but lying about the chassis MY.
Maybe you should sue him.
Ken
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