I am in the process of evaluating options of my next TT and TV.
I am interesting in a Jayfeather LGT 31E (7500 lb GVWR, 720 lb dry tongue wt, 33 feet long.)
The two TVs that I am looking at are an Expedition (4x4, 9200 lb towing capacity, 119 inch wheel base) and a Silverado 1500 with max trailering package (4x4, 10500 lb towing capacity, 143 inch wheel base). I am more comfortable with the Silverado for towing except that it is too long for my garage. That means that I will have to park it in my drive way (this will also be my daily vehicle). The Expedition is shorter and will be able to fit in the garage, however, it has a slightly lower towing capacity and a much shorter wheel base.
So what TV should I get? Here are two questions that I like to seek your advice on:
(1) An issue that I have heard from some people is that the WB of the Expedition is too short for the 33 ft long TT, even with the use of a WDH such as an Equal-i-zer. How concern should I be?
(2) If one assumes that the short WB of the Expedition is indeed an issue and is willing to spend the money to get a Hensley hitch, will it take care of the short WB issue?
I tow a 29' Heatland Trailrunner with a 1500 Silverado extended cab 4x4 and love the pull. With that size TT, I wouldn't go smaller with tv length. JMHO.
Good Luck and Happy Camping..
A hensley will take care of the WB to trailer length issue. BUT, I need to put a caveat in here, this works ONLY if you have the TV under its wt rating, by axel for me, not factory GVWR which is typically 10-15% less than axel values. Along with the trailer has proper HW % for the wt of the trailer, and this does not overload the TV. Otherwise, you are using bandaid to fix and issue that really needs a torniquet! IE a bigger GVWR TV! Otherwise, if the rest works, get a hensley and enjoy your combo!
blt2ski wrote: A hensley will take care of the WB to trailer length issue. BUT, I need to put a caveat in here, this works ONLY if you have the TV under its wt rating, by axel for me, not factory GVWR which is typically 10-15% less than axel values. Along with the trailer has proper HW % for the wt of the trailer, and this does not overload the TV. Otherwise, you are using bandaid to fix and issue that really needs a torniquet! IE a bigger GVWR TV! Otherwise, if the rest works, get a hensley and enjoy your combo!
Thanks for the feedback.
If the Hensley hitch could compensate for the short WB of the Expedition under the conditions described by Marty, it may be a very worthwhile investment.
The tongue wt issue, however, is one that I would like to further explore. The Hensley hitch looks like a very heavy piece of hardware. How much does it weigh and what is its impact on the tongue weight? Also, for someone who has a back problem, does it take more effort to hitch and unhitch a Hensley compared with an Equal-i-zer?
That is a 7850# GVWR rear kitchen TT with 6225# dry weight and a 710# dry tongue. That is the designed out of the factory with no options at 11.4% tongue weight.
The heads up on rear kitchens is tongue weight and balance. You really have to watch the tongue balance when you load the kitchen to keep the front end heavy. I am from the camp that recommends good tongue weight. On 33 feet, that would be 13 to 15% loaded TT tongue per loaded TT GVW.
With a 6225# dry weight, plus 1000# camping stuff = 7225#. 15% is a 1,083# tongue.
This needs to be understood and confirmed.
Reason being the Expedition does not have much rear axle capacity. I do not know what year Expy you are looking at. Some of the older ones only had like ~ 890# ratings on a WD reciever as the soft rear coil springs can only take that. The 2007's have a litte more.
I have heard a Hensley can add 150# to tongue weight above a conventional WD hitch. I also heard 200#. But regardless which, the Expy can run out of rear axle quick.
I would not tow 33' on 119" WB without a Hensley or Pullrite hitch. And while they will fix the sway, they will not solve an overloaded TV. We never asked and you did not tell us how many passangers and cargo weight would be in the TV. This makes the problem the that much worse
Having come from a 1500 Tahoe, to a 2500 Suburban and now the F350 across 2 TT's, The weeklink in an SUV is rear axle capacity and lack of GVWR. You can get and engine to pull it, but to hold it up is another story.
The PU truck will be better then the Expy but it too needs to be checked to weights.
Hope this helps.
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we where camping!)
Another variable - Ford makes an Expy EL with a 131" wheelbase.
"A bad day of camping is better than a good day at work."
'04 GMC Envoy & '05 Travel Star 21SSO
17' Wenonah Kevlar & 16' Dagger Royalex canoes http://community.webshots.com/user/mbopp0153
I think the wheelbase ratio is critical to a good pull and avoidance of sway. I cannot comment on the ability of Hensley to compensate for the shorter wheelbase as I have never owned on. Based on the good things I read I would say you don't need to consider towing this size TT without one. I towed our Jayco which is 31.5 ft with half ton Suburban and 130 inch wheelbased and would not dream of towing it with a shorter wheelbase vehicle. The Excursion is 139 inches and handles the TT extremely well.
David,Wife,4 kids,SIL,1 grandchild
2003 Ford Excursion Eddie Bauer 7.3 PSD w/3.73 rear end
Jayco Kiwi Too 30T bunkhouse w/triple bunks
Prodigy Controller
Reese Dual Cam HP
Michelin LTX M/S
2001 F150 SuperCrew
The max trailering package has a 7000lb or 7200lb GVWR vs. the standard Chevy with a 6400lb GVWR. A 1000-1100lb tongue weight would be well within the truck's limits, even with a sizeable family on board, since the curb weight of the truck with the max trailer pkg. isn't that much higher than the std. pickup, if any.
What I find funny is that there's likely little to no difference in the suspension components between a standard 1500 and a max trailering 1500. Maybe, MAYBE an extra leaf on the rear spring pack...
JBar wrote: We never asked and you did not tell us how many passengers and cargo weight would be in the TV. This makes the problem the that much worse
Mostly it is only my wife and I for weekend trips at the State Park camp ground a hour or so away with full hook ups.
Jbarca wrote: With a 6225# dry weight, plus 1000# camping stuff = 7225#. 15% is a 1,083# tongue
I think the max tongue wt for the 2008 Expedition is 920 lbs. It thus looks like we may have a problem here.
mbopp wrote: Another variable - Ford makes an Expy EL with a 131" wheelbase
The issue here is that the Expy EL has a lower towing capability than the regular Expy. I think it is at 8750 lb? (4x4) vs the 9200 lb. So we pick up the extra WB but lose some towing capacity. It also lowers the max payload as well. How do we assess this trade off between WD vs max trailering capacity here?
mkirsh wrote: What I find funny is that there's likely little to no difference in the suspension components between a standard 1500 and a max trailering 1500. Maybe, MAYBE an extra leaf on the rear spring pack...
Actually the max trailering package comes with a heavy duty 9.5" trailering axle vs the 8" for the regular 1500. But I don't know anything about the rear spring situation.
Summing up your comments, if I still wanted go with the 31E, the Expy does not seem to be a good choice. OK, what about a Suburban 2500?
Summing up your comments, if I still wanted go with the 31E, the Expy does not seem to be a good choice. OK, what about a Suburban 2500?
The Suburban, a very good truck but it has it's limits too.
Are you looking at a 2007 and newer Burb or 2006 and older? Big difference in abilities.
Prior to my F350, I had an 03, 2500 Burb. 6.0 with the 4.10 rear end with my new 32 foot TT for a short time. That engine/rear end is limited to 16,000 GCWR. I was at 15,760# and a 1,200# tongue. The TT was around 8,540# and I was not fully loaded yet.
On the flat lands of Ohio, pulling was OK. I got in trouble in the hills of PA with it coming home from the dealer empty at 7200#. Too much tyranny heat.
If you get a 2006 or older 8.1 Burb she will pull your TT loaded to full GVWR. You can add the Hensley or the Pullrite and then the sway problems go away with the rear kitchen concerns.
The 2000 - 2006 and Burbs can handle a 1,200# tongue with 2 good adults in the truck and some small level of gear. Mine Burb weighed in at 8,500# (8600 GVWR)with a 1,200# tongue with the DW and I plus about 200# gear inside. We where still not full yet on the TT but it held me over until I got the F350. We had it on our older TT, 27 foot, 6800# and it worked out very good.
I moved up from mine because of the engine and not able to take on any more tongue weight. If I could of got past the tyranny heat/engine/tongue weight above 1,200, I would of added a Pullrite and been a happy camper.
See rig here:
The 2007 and newer Burb, has a new reciever on it that is only rated to 1,000# in WD mode and I do not know if an aftermarket reciever is available. The largest engine is a 6.0. Still a great truck, but the Suburban, like the Excursion use to be the 2 big SUV TV's. That is now a thing of the past.
Good luck
John
* This post was
edited 03/07/08 10:29am by JBarca *
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