BackroadNiagraFamily
Phoenix AZ
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I tried to avoid it, but I think I have to take the Genny Plunge. We are strictly boondockers and have been doing pretty well with two group 27s and a 50Watt/3Amp Kyocera Solar panel. However, despite our best efforts to conserve, we tend to take-more-out-than-goes-in; and we want the flexibility to stay out for extended periods - thus the Genny.
My question:
Which approach minimizes the time the machine actually has to be running to keep the batteries up?
1. Direct charging the batteries with a charger?
2. Plugging the trailer into the generator as shore power and charging that way?
3. If I direct charge should I charge each battery independently? Or, can I do them both simultaneously? (they are wired in parallel)
Other thoughts/comments on the topic? (by looking through the archives I can tell the generator issue has been covered countless times; although I didn't see these questions)
I have a Niagara and am considering the smallest Honda generator.
Thanks.
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mike4947
N. Syracuse, NY
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moved from folding trailer forum
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Wayne Dohnal
Banks, OR.
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I don't think there's any good reason to split up the parallel batteries for charging. As for using a charger vs. the RV's power converter, it fully depends on how the charger and converter compare to each other. With a small generator you also need to be aware of the power factor of the charger or converter. Many of the popular power converters have a power factor of about 0.7, meaning that you will lose about 30% of the generator's maximum power capability. When using a small generator, a 'power factor corrected' converter can provide a big advantage. I don't know how the standalone chargers are with respect to power factor.
2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
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EU2000i generator
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MELM
GA
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In a previous post, you indicate you have a 2007 Niagara - a Fleetwood product. The website shows it has a 35 amp converter, and Fleetwood has used WFCO for several years.
If that is true, you have a good converter for charging the batteries IF the cable from the converter/power center to the battery is heavy enough. From several posts on the WFCO converters in the past, you need to have a heavy cable or the converter will not go into the bulk mode for charging. In bulk mode, it should put 35 amps to the 12 volt system - most, if not all, going to the batteries with some to lights, fans, etc.
Can you determine the length of the wire from the converter to the battery? Can you see anything to tell the wire gauge? At or near the battery, there should be a fuse or circuit breaker in the wire going to the converter - can you see the size of it?
The 1000 watt gen should handle the 35 amp WFCO, but several members have opted for the 2000 watt gen as it can do a lot more of things they would like to do when the gen is running - like make a pot of coffee while charging.
With that combination, just plug in the trailer and let the WFCO do the charging. Leave the batteries in parallel.
Mel & Mary Ann; Mo'Be (More Behave...) and Bella
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BackroadNiagraFamily
Phoenix AZ
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Thanks for the advice. The wire runnung to the the batteries from the converter looks to be 12 guage. The run is about 6 feet. My goal is to run the generator the absolute minimum amount of time I can get away with and still keep the batteries up (I really don't need the genny to do anything else (I don't think)- our coffee is stove top). The 2000 Watt Generator may be just a bit too big for me in terms of size and weight. My initial thought was that the batteries would get more Amps per hour by plugging a charger (25 amp? - I haven't bought it yet - suggestions?) directly to the positive terminal of one of the parallel batteries and the negative terminal of the other battery. That said, if the converter can support 35 amps (I do have an '07 Fleetwood), it does seem to make sense to plug the trailer directly into the generator and skip the charger altogether. Thoughts?
Thanks again. This forum is absolutely invaluable.
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BackroadNiagraFamily
Phoenix AZ
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O.K. I must admit I have to show my ignorance before I do something silly. I'm trying to decide between one of two Honda Generators (EU2000i and EU1000i). My purpose for buying one of these two is to quietly top off my batteries each morning after the previous day's usage. Here's my question.
When I read the specs of the two units they both appear to have the same DC output (96 watts, 8 Amps). Does this mean that if I use these units to re-charge my batteries directly the maximum Amp Hours I can replace is 8 amps per hour of generator run time? Irrespective of which unit I buy?
On the AC side the EU1000i spec says it creates 7.5 Amps (900 Watts) and the EU2000i spec says it creates 13.3 Amps(1600 Watts). Does this mean that if I plug my trailer directly into either generator as shore power the most I can "put back" into my batteries is 7.5 Amps/Hour (EU1000i) or 13.3 Amps/Hour (EU2000i)?
Can these numbers be increased if I use a seperate battery charger? (instead of the "generator shore power" or the "generator-direct-to-battery" setup).
Needless to say I'm a bit confused by all of this.
Thanks for your time.
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Wayne Dohnal
Banks, OR.
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The DC charging output on the Honda inverter generators, as well as most other generators, does a poor job. I normally say it's a joke, but in an optimistic mood I'll say it's useful in an emergency when nothing else is available. Besides having a maximum output of 8 amps, it's poor quality DC, and the generator must be taken out of its 'eco' mode when using the DC output. A good power converter or charger plugged into the generator's AC output will do a superior job charging the batteries.
If MELM is correct about which power converter is in your unit, your best bet is to follow what he said above, including the issues with the wire sizes.
With the 35 amp converter the 1000 vs. 2000 watt issue is just a matter of how you trade off having the extra power available for other things vs. the added size and weight. The eu1000's output limit starts to become an issue with 45 amp power converters, and is a definite limitation with a 60 amp converter.
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BackroadNiagraFamily
Phoenix AZ
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Thank you. Assuming I have the proper wiring (factory installed) and the WSCO 35 amp convertor, and everything else is turned off in the trailer, any general idea how many amps will go back into the battery for each hour of generator run time?
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wa8yxm
Wherever I happen to park
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I do not think splitting the batteries will help, in fact if you are interested in generator run time consider this. From totaly dead to say 80-90 percent is aroudn 3-4 hours at max charge rate (30 percent of the amp hour capacity for AGM or Flooded or Maintenance free, 25 percent and add more time for GEL) to get from there to full charge another 4 hours more or less So it's 8 hours to fully charge from dead. If the batteries are only 1/2 down, cut the first number in half but the "Absorption" stage (Final stage of charging) is still 4 hours more or less (Float is not a charging stage, it's "Charged" stage)
So a converter rated for just over 30 percent of the battery amp hour capacity and the proper Honda or Yahama inverter Generator.
Two dangers about small Hondas and one applies to Yahama as well (Both will some day)
1: The cute little RED ones (honda) are very attractive to folks with sticky fingers... They have a tendency to grow legs and walk off.. Sooner or later the sticky's will figure out the yellow ones are just as good, if not better, and they too will start growing legs.
2: A Honda 1000, or Yahama 1200... You might easily forget to turn it off, they are that quiet
Nothin adds excitment like something that is none of your business
John is Near Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377
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mchero
Concord, NH
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How about adding two more house batteries bringing the total to four and a couple larger solar panels on the roof?
What will you be running during day/night? Will give us a better idea of your power consumption.
Robert McHenry
Concord, NH.
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