Ok, I am going to try and answer this from my limited knowledge of this subject, That being said, I am giving my opinion from both sides of the fence. Dh and I owned/sold a resort a few years ago. Dh has been disabled all his life (which most people would have never known.) He didn't let his disability stop him. But in the last 3 years he has been diagnosed with two incurable diseases. So again I come from both sides of the fence.
I attended several classes on the subject. To my understanding a facility only has to provide access or be handicap compatible. Meaning that if they provide accommodations/services to non-disabled persons they must provide the same access to disabled people. But it doesn't mean they have to move people or build a handicap site just because someone is disabled. But if they don't have a site availible then you don't have to stay there. Its your choice. Now if and when they remodel their facility then at that time they have to bring everything up to handicap codes (even though they have handicap sites doesn't mean youll get one) So if they provide a laundry, game, etc, rooms for non-disabled guest then they must provide access for disabled guest to those same rooms. If a campground/rvpark remodels their sites then a percentage of those sites have to be handicap accessible. But just because a park or even a Hotel/Motel has a handicap room doesn't mean your going to get it. It's based of first come first serve. They only have to provide a certain percentage based on the amount of rooms they provide. Lets be honest, businesses will never be able to keep up and provide for every handicap that comes along, they only have to reasonably attempt to provide. Thank Goodness the builder who built our park was ahead of the curve. It was built to provide access for everyone. Now, had we remodeled our sites to say make those plush Super $150 night sites, then we would have had to make a percentage of them handicapped. Or say we would have built a path up to the meadows for guest, we would have had to make it handicap accessible.
Now my understanding of non handicap accessible facilities, lets say their laundry room is not accessible to a wheelchair, then they have to offer to do the laundry for a handicap guest. Another example, their office isn't wheelchair accessible, as long as they come out to your vehicle/rig to check you in then they are compatible. To my knowledge the only thing they have to have that isn't used by non-disabled guest is a TDD machine. (We got away without one because we provided computers to our guest in our guest lounge). By law I should have had one, but was told that because of the computers we were compatible. Our deaf guest actually told me they preferred the computer over the TDD machine cause they could take their time and email and web at their leisure. So I guess you can start to see where I am coming from. I just feel that as long as they make a reasonable attempt to be compatible then that's all I ask. I don't expect for a facility to move/build/or pull one out, just because my Dh is disabled. As a former resort owner there is no way I could please ever single guest handicap or not. I just tried to do the best for the overall comfort of all guest. Honestly, I would have had to build and rebuild the resort everyday if I was to please everyone. (everyone has an opinion of whats right for them, handicap or not.) Now had you stayed at our park, and I knew your in-laws struggled to get to the showers I would have gladly ran the golf cart to your site and ran them back and forth to the showers just as a courtesy but I would have never been able to run them back and forth to do potty breaks. I guess my question would be, What's wrong with the bathroom in your rig? As one response to your post said, you are camping in a self contained unit. So basically the campground only has to provide the site. They don't have to provide the bathrooms, but since they do, then the only requirement is that they are accessible to the disabled. You as a consumer have a choice to stay where you want, but just because your in-laws have issues doesn't mean the facility you stay at has to provide a site next to the bathrooms for them. You can't expect them to provide everything you want, so you have to decide if what they do provide is what you want as a guest. Bella
* This post was
edited 04/13/08 09:43pm by Rv-Bella *
I don't remember seeing any requirements for HC spots anywhere in the ADA. And I'm fairly familiar with them. I'm also deputized to enforce HC parking (write tickets) on private and public property.
Deen - Vancouver, WA
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Deen wrote: I don't remember seeing any requirements for HC spots anywhere in the ADA. And I'm fairly familiar with them. I'm also deputized to enforce HC parking (write tickets) on private and public property.
I think we all realize that there may not be HC spots for campgrounds (except state and federal, which designate them). I see this as a campground owner failing to recognize that there is a special need at his campground. We do not need laws to help people who are handicapped. We just need to step up to the bat and do it!
As a handicapped person, I've been in many campgrounds, some have available sites I can use, others don't, just being handicapped doesn't guarentee me a site even if they have them, the sites are handled on a first come first served basis. For example, if the have 6 sites and they just got their 7th handicapper, that person isn't going to get one of them. It's like a store if they have 5 handicapper parking spots and the cars in them are carrying the placard or handicapper plate, you'll have to find a different place to park. Remember, the doctor is the one to determine if a person is handicapped or not, just looking at a person won't tell you if they are handicapped, like most handicappers, I have good days and bad days.
Dan and Alice, fulltiming, eagle model 10, jeep grand cherokee toad
Yep, Cody. I was about to say that. I get very very tired of the assumption that just because I did something today, I could pull it off every day - or even more than very rarely. I hear those comments very often from others who don't realize I'm part of the 'lazy and abusive' crowd myself. I've sworn off trying to straighten them out as a complete waste of my precious time and energy. But for anyone else reading, it's enough hassle on a daily basis as it is. Walk a mile in my moccasins first. Somebody might as well get some use out them! I'll just watch from the roof. Maybe.
The only way I know around the HC site prob in general is to make those spots as nearly useless to yourself as possible. Bring your own bathing and laundry facilities, and a scooter of whatever kind best suits your needs. Nothing is perfect, including this answer, but those 3 things will get you in and out of a whole lot of situations that would otherwise be just about unlivable. That also gives you more freedom to avoid folks who don't value your business or your dignity in favor of those who do.
I have to third what cody said. I too am disabled. I have my good and bad days. I have no days without pain throughout the day.
My "good day" can turn bad in a second. I try to keep as active as much as I can, but I've been in my back yard when I suddenly start a bad turn and crawl back to the house.
I also have what I call payment activities. If I do something one day, IE: wash the car, play with the niece and nephews, I have a payment of pain coming. This will last one or two days and during that time I don't leave the house and engage in my pain management routine.
I chose not to accept a handicap permit as I didn't want to deal with the snide comments I used to get. The standard, "you don't look handicapped".
I recently applied for a handicap National park permit and got big attitude from the Workcamper. First he said it didn't exist and then when I presented my documentation he looked me up and down, sighed and then gave me the permit. When I was leaving he sarcastically said, "enjoy your pass"..
People should realize there are different levels of disabilities. Many aren't apparent by just looking at someone. I would give anything in the world for just one pain free day.
Yes, I know that there are many different kinds of physical and mental limiting factors that result in people having difficulty making it through the day.
My comment about not being disabled if you can ride a bike or climb on the roof of your RV ... isn't meant to demean people's pain and suffering.
However, if you are healthy enough to ride a bike or climb on the roof of your RV, then you obviously are capable of camping in a non-level, non-ADA camp site.
OK, I', going to jump. There are many forms of disability and individual disabilities differ. I have a blue placard and ride a motorcycle and can climb to the roof of the RV. May not be able to get back down but usually can climb up. Wether you can ride a bicycle, motorcycle or climb a ladder has little or nothing to due with disability. It only has to do that on that particular day and time you did so. An hour later you may not be able to stand up.
I think the type of disability everyone is referring to here is a severe physical disability where walking even short distances is difficult most if not all the time. This is not an issue of health or the ability to climb, ride etc. Moreover we are not the judges.
In California I am not aware of any Disability Card with a classification on it. When people see my blue disability plate on the motorcycle I tell them I have unresolved mental issues and they leave me alone.
There are many types of disability and some are more disabling than others and some vary, good days and bad days and more importantly people vary. Social Security has their list but even though you make the list does not predict your status for that day or life.
There are few who can out back or out surgery me yet there are many things I can and do do. There are probably a lot of things I shouldn't do. I have had 15+ surgeries, have 8 surgically fused vertebrae, 2 rods, a bar, 11 large screws, 8 small screws, two plates one of which is broken, many smaller bolts and nuts, both joints on a pinky surgically fused and two surgically fused thumbs and a pacemaker.
My good days are when my SLE is inactive and the bad days- months years are when the SLE is active and in a flair. I am sun and cold sensitive, sensitive enough to carry an Epipen. I can not stand on one leg but I can ride a bike and mc. This is common for even the severest back injuries. Often I find walking any distance is very difficult but sometimes it is not. Walking on slopes usually creates severe problems. Bicycles, ladders and mc's don't.
I use the disabled parking spots when a long walk is involved or when I have to carry anything. As for pain I don't pay much attention to it and I take no pain medications.
When people see me walk they no longer ask questions and I hate it when young women open doors for me or a clerk at a store will ask if I need medical aid. I am fine, what I really need is to get on that motorcycle or to climb up on the roof or some sugar and that I usually ask for.
What really makes me mad is when we pull up to the gate house of a park. My husband who is a 40% vet. hands over his card to get camping for half price and the person working says "you don't look disabled"!!! No not just sitting there behind the wheel he does not but he is missing a kidney and has a knee replacement plus his other knee needs to be replaced. What more does the guy want. I really could go on.
As for the handicap sites we still use a reg site and will as long as we can. They always look like they are for wheel chairs to me too.
I get some strange looks sometimes when people see the DV (disabled veteran) plates on my motorhome if they know that in Georgia you have to be 100% disabled to get that plate. I have no feeling in my legs from the hips down and limited feeling in my hands. I also have other health issues and all are a result of my military service but I am not complaining. I would do all 25 years over again even knowing the results. It does bother me sometime when I find people parked in a spot reserved for handicapped that do not have the proper plate or sticker. On my better days I can walk from spots further out and I usually do as the exercise is good for me but on some days I need the closer in spots. My wife is also handicapped and we carry two scooters, one three wheeled and one four wheeled, with us in the back of our PT Cruiser. These we use around the camp ground or around rallys and RV shows that we attend. As long as we can we intend to keep going.
Badeye
"No one can guarantee success, only effort."
Bob & Fran
2005 Coachmen Sportscoach Elite 40 ft DP
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I greive for those less fortunate, who for whatever reason have "HP" designations.
I am proud as a Member of the Thousand Trails Members Family to report that our Camping Preserves have Facilities for those designees.
Spaces, Shower Facilities and access to most all of the many Recreational and Social Facilities available.
I believe it is because our Management Teams "Care".
I too have been in other Private Campgrounds who seem to have the attitude, "So What!" and it is disgusting to me.
Capt. Chet
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