Having recently returned from our maiden voyage pulling our '08 Raptor 3814SS (1800 miles roundtrip), I'm extremely pleased with the performance of both the toyhauler AND the tow vehicle. My truck is an upgraded '04 Chevy CC SB Duramax/Allison. I have changed the tires out to Goodyear Silent Armor Load Range 'E' units and added airbags.
Loaded up (no water...we don't boondock), I scaled at 21,700# with a drive axle weight of 5800#. I am absolutely amazed at how well the truck pulls this big trailer, and more importantly, how well it stops. We are veteran motorhomers (13 seasons) with my most recent unit being a 40' diesel pusher. I was very pleased to discover that when a semi comes flying by, it has about the same effect on the fifth wheel as it did on our motorhome. In other words, VERY little 'semi-suck.'
The biggest difference is that we don't pull the fifth wheel as fast as we used to drive the motorhome. I keep the speedo under 65MPH as it conserves a significant amount of fuel.
At some point in the future, I 'might' dedicate a dually to this arrangement as I know that it would be just that much better, but for now I am very pleased. My truck needs to be used for snowplowing and as a daily driver so 'replacement' to a dually is not an option. I also know that some folks become downright passionate about this topic, and I'm in no way wanting to open up a 'truck-trailer combo' banter. I just thought I'd report my findings as 'I' see them.
I feel I must comment. There are a lot of folks that do not understand weights and are new to towing. Since you know your weights, you also know you are over gross and justify that with the snow plow use of your daily driver.
I also do not want to restart the old debate. Just admit you know you have a mis-matched set-up and are surprised how well a overloaded PU drives.
Jim
Fulltimming since 12/00, Safari 3540, 300 CAT, CRV Toad.
I must add to the topic, the "overloaded pickup" is really not. The GCVWR for the truck is 22000#, which he is under. The 2500 and 3500 share all the same parts except an overload spring in the rear, he added air bags. The motor and tranny are the same, no problem there. So I would say, great you are well within the range of the truck.
2006 Chevy 2500 6.6L D/A
2007 WW FS2500, Billet etc
2006 Yamaha Rhino Special edition
2006 Honda Trx450er
2003 Suzuki quad sport 50
2008 KTM 530 EXC R
DW Jen, Son Ryan
I have the Raptor 3814 and although I think you can do whatever you want, after close to 6000 miles of towing, I would not tow this with anything less than what I have today (08-F350 Powerstroke DRW) and if I could afford it, I would buy a MDT. The towing capacity of your truck is only 14,900 and the Raptor loaded scales at 14,500 wet without cargo meaning you are likely way over that. Most people tell you to add a 10-20% safety margin as well. So, I am sure you will hear on an equal basis it is ok to tow with what you have versus it is not ok based on capacity and safety concerns. I guess my parting line is just it you can pull it with your current TV, does not mean you should.
On a good note, we love our Raptor 3814!
Good luck!
Big Dave
2008 F350 Superduty 6.4 TD "Bumbles"
2007 Keystone Raptor 3814
2004 Polaris Sportsman 700 EFI
2008 Yamaha Raptor 250 SE
2007 Yamaha YZ85
2006 Polaris TB250
Assorted other toys
2 Boys who only know one speed
Great to hear your experience pulling your trailer. Weight is a hot topic and there are lots of opinions.
I am of the opinion, that there is a reasonably large safety factor built into the manufacturers ratings and that with care, they you can pull and stop over the limit to some small degree. You obviously are well aware of the weights of yourrig and are driving with care.
On your trip, did you climb or descend any significant hills?
My rig is about 24000 #s and is over the GCWR, but under all the individual axle and tire ratings. On the flat or on normal hiway hills, my dodge handles the weight very well. On any grade greater than 5% however, the performance was not as good as I would like. I ran the rig stock for several years then had an exhaust brake and performance chip added. Also upgraded the transmission and TC to handle the extra load as I was noticing some slip. This greatly improved the driving experience...particularily going down hill.
Also, a comment on the dually. I had the same thoughts before I bought it that it would not be good for a daily driver, but after buying it, I find that it works well and is very manageble. You get used to the extra width. Just have to park farther away from the mall door ..... good excersise!!
2003 Dodge 3500 DRW HO with:
Edge Juice
Banks Ram Air, Pac-Brake, Exhaust
ATS 5-star Torq Conv
ATS Hi-Perf 48RE Trans with Billet Input Shaft
Trailersaver T3 Hitch
2005 Komfort Karryall - 36 foot
2006 HD Electra-Glide FTHCI
2 - Kaw Brute 650i Quads
DavidM49 wrote: I have the Raptor 3814 and although I think you can do whatever you want, after close to 6000 miles of towing, I would not tow this with anything less than what I have today (08-F350 Powerstroke DRW) and if I could afford it, I would buy a MDT. The towing capacity of your truck is only 14,900 and the Raptor loaded scales at 14,500 wet without cargo meaning you are likely way over that. Most people tell you to add a 10-20% safety margin as well. So, I am sure you will hear on an equal basis it is ok to tow with what you have versus it is not ok based on capacity and safety concerns. I guess my parting line is just it you can pull it with your current TV, does not mean you should.
On a good note, we love our Raptor 3814!
Good luck!
I hear ya Dave, and respect your opinion. First of all, we NEVER haul 'wet.' As I stated above, we are not boondockers, and if we ever decide to boondock, I will wait until I reached my destination before filling the tank.
Also, as I stated above, we motorhomed for years (actually, visited every state in the contiguous US, with the exception of Rhode Island), and the biggest reason that we wanted to switch to a TH was so that we could bring our toys AND still have a vehicle to drive around when we got to our destination. When I see guys driving their MDT around the grocery store parking lot, I laugh my butt off. That is not my idea of a daily driver. And neither is a dually, quite frankly.
If I were to buy a dually (and, as I mentioned above, I 'might' at some point), it would definitely not be to replace the SRW truck. It would be in addition to. I just do not feel unsafe behind the wheel of my current truck pulling the Raptor. During this past trip, I had occassion to stop pretty quickly, and with the trailer brakes dialed in good and strong, this unit came to a stop REALLY well; every bit as fast as did my motorhome with a dinghy in tow.
All of this surprises me though. I fully expected to have my hands full, but did not. I would love, however, to have the opportunity to pull my trailer hooked to a dually, so that I could make up my own mind about the difference without feeling like I need to justify my TV purchase.
Ran: I like you pulled our 3612DS Raptor with a 06' F-250 diesel and had no issues whatsoever, pulled great and stopped the rig with no issues even in the one emergency situation I had (didn't even panic). However, I was over the GVWR of my truck (10,000 GVWR) but most likely not over the GCWR. I've since upgraded to a F-450 but have yet to tow the Raptor with it so I can't honestly say if there's a big difference between the two.
Ran-
Keep in mind a lot of the "experts" on this site have never pulled their rigs with a SRW let alone had much trailer pulling experience.
I have pulled my TH's with both a SRW and a DRW and there is a difference- the DRW is a little more stable- particularly in crosswinds, next to rigs... Is the DRW safer? Only if one of your rear tires was to blow. It does not stop any faster...
Lastly, the big push in tractor trailers is to go with SUPER SINGLES and it is only a matter of time before we start seeing them show up in the light truck market.
bjbear wrote: Great to hear your experience pulling your trailer. Weight is a hot topic and there are lots of opinions.
I am of the opinion, that there is a reasonably large safety factor built into the manufacturers ratings and that with care, they you can pull and stop over the limit to some small degree. You obviously are well aware of the weights of yourrig and are driving with care.
On your trip, did you climb or descend any significant hills?
My rig is about 24000 #s and is over the GCWR, but under all the individual axle and tire ratings. On the flat or on normal hiway hills, my dodge handles the weight very well. On any grade greater than 5% however, the performance was not as good as I would like. I ran the rig stock for several years then had an exhaust brake and performance chip added. Also upgraded the transmission and TC to handle the extra load as I was noticing some slip. This greatly improved the driving experience...particularily going down hill.
Also, a comment on the dually. I had the same thoughts before I bought it that it would not be good for a daily driver, but after buying it, I find that it works well and is very manageble. You get used to the extra width. Just have to park farther away from the mall door ..... good excersise!!
Bear,
Thanks for your comments. I did indeed do a little climbing and descending, but not a lot. My destination was north central TN. I really had only one long grade; about 2-3 miles, and my guess is that it was not more than a 4% or 5% grade. Although the tow/haul feature in the Chevy worked pretty cool, I did find it necessary to briefly tap the brakes in order to stay at a safe speed (during the descent, of course). I should say here too that I didn't once pull this rig over 65MPH.
My biggest concern -- if we continue to venture to areas with Mountains -- is the cooling capacity of the LLY Duramax. When I climbed that hill, the OAT was 78. I watched the temp gauge climb quite a bit, but when the fan kicked in, she went back down fairly quicly. I suspect that in 90+ degree weather, the story might be different?? I'll likely have a chance to find out as we are going back to the same location in June.
As I said above, I went into this trip fully expecting to be shopping around for a dually when I got back. I've been driving all sorts of combinations for years (including a tractor/trailer for a while) and I just don't feel uncomfortable with this current set-up.
BTW Bear...like I mentioned above, a dually as a daily driver just won't work for me. I have a small snowplowing business, and many of my driveways feel small with my current truck. I can only imagine what they'd feel like plowing with a dually.
I have a Fuzion 373 that I pulled with a 05 Dodge quad cab 4x4 SRW diesel long bed. I was very suprised how well it pulled and felt under control. I am sure many feel this way about their own 2500/3500SRW. This works under the best conditions. But what will happen on a turn going down a hill and a tire goes with 2800# pin weight? I now have a 3500 dually and am still a little overweight. limit is because of 373 & not the 410 gear so I feel the truck is safe. Max speed is 65 mph. I think anything over 65 to 70 is where the problems start, mpg goes down and trailer tires come apart. Just my opinion, we all do what we think is best for our situation. By the way, the Fuzion is awesome to camp in and Keystone took care of all initial issues (even the petty ones) under warranty.
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