portablevcb wrote: Anyone who uses a genset just to make coffee is lazy, ignorant, or just plain rude.
Yep, that's a pretty good description.
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Respectfully, I've camped for nearly 50 years. Sometimes in a tent with nothing but a cooler and a Coleman stove. Sometimes in my hybrid. I fully respect and favor quiet hours. I reminded my kids when they were young to keep their voices down. That said, running my camper-friendly Honda genset an hour a day when it literally cannot be heard outside my site to recharge my batts and make a pot of coffee has never been considered rude or ignorant by any camper I have ever met. If that is too great an intrusion for you, I am sorry. But that burden is your's not mine.
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I agree that newer gensets are quiet enough not to be an issue. There are other ways to make coffee that do not need 120V.
Running a genset that will wake up other people is rude, early or late. I do feel the same way about music, loud vehicles, slamming car doors, etc, etc.
Yes, I have camped for 40 years. Raised two kids and took many of their friends with us. I've had to correct adult friends who did not understand what it was to be polite when camping. And, I don't mind letting someone else know that they are making too much noise too.
Yes, I am a grouch, especially when woken up by rude people.
charlie
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I have a Honda 2000 generator and try to use it as little as possible. We also got an extra long extension cord so we can position the generator as far from people as possible. And I built a little enclosure out of soundproofing panels -- nothing fancy -- that dampens down the sound somewhat, while letting the generator "breathe" through the sound baffles.
True story: Last October, we were at a very quiet campground in the Sierras (Quaking Aspen, above Porterville) and there was only one other couple there, in a tent. It was snowing lightly and we were standing right in front of my little trailer, talking to these young folks (British) about the hikes in the area and about camping. The guy says,"How do you recharge your batteries?" I tell him, "My generator." He pauses and says, "Could I ask you a favor? Could you not run it at night?" I answer, "I promise that I won't. The batteries will be pretty well charged in a few minutes." He says, "What do you mean?" I tell him, "I'm charging right now. With my generator."
Long, silent, pause. He listens. "Are you sure it's running?"
It was maybe 50 feet away, at most, purring along.
Bottom line -- yes, the generator cost me about about 15% of the purchase price of my small used trailer -- it was more than three times as expensive as the contractor-grade generators -- but I think it was worthwhile. (I still try to do without it when I can -- but for several days of boondocking, it will be hard to avoid using it.)
profdant139 wrote: True story: Last October, we were at a very quiet campground in the Sierras... "I'm charging right now. With my generator."
I've posted a _very_ similar story in this forum. The only difference was that I had no effective sound baffling, at that time, and the HONDA 2000 generator was sitting _six_ feet from the from the party I was giving a tour of our camper to! ...I was dumbfounded! I thought the guy was pulling my leg, at first! Granted, it _was_ in a Maryland State Campground where there were a few contractor-style generators that were running within 300 feet of my campsite. They tended to even drown out the sound of the pounding Atlantic surf! (...So I _know_ how bad generators can be.)
I try to be considerate and anticipate the feelings of others when I am camped in an organized campground but some of the complaints about generators (in this topic) have me a little puzzled (even though I've heard the same complaints before). Namely, if you are (wilderness) boondocking, how can you _hear_ my generator??? I think many people might either be confused about what constitutes a "quiet" generator (less than sixty decibels -- quieter than normal human conversation) or else they are camping too close and encroaching on other people's boondocking sites!
It has never occurred to _me_ to move in on somebody elses (wilderness) boondocking spot. Does that happen a lot?!? I get the impression from some of the topic digressions that this occurs. I'm always keeping an eye out for potential boondocking spots (honest-to-God wilderness spots) but I don't _really_ get around to spending more than a very few nights in those circumstances, each year. I suppose if someone "moved-in" on _my_ spot and said, "Hi Testudo! I'm camping next to you tonight!", I guess I would put a full amp-load on my generator and run to assemble my weapon {grin!}.
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(As long as I am logged-in, maybe I should address the OP ???)
Quote: Many of the areas we go to have both dispersed camping and several "primitive campgrounds", we usually end up out in the boonies and don't use the campgrounds. If you use the campgrounds, why and what advantages do they offer?
This is a good question...
I am a wilderness backpacker/camper at my roots. But, I got away from it starting in my early 20's. I found I liked to learn about new cultures more than I liked to sit out in the woods and be antisocial, so that meant camping in organized campgrounds and being close to cities (mostly in Europe). I also stopped hunting and killing fish about that time -- not because I have any moral reservation against it but rather because it started to be expensive (...I guess). When I was a teenager, I got photography experience using my brother's SLR cameras while he was in Viet Nam and I got _my_ first SLR when I was in my early twenties. It was sort of a natural leap from shooting fish in barrel to shooting fish with a camera, I guess {shrug}.
One thing about sleeping in organized campgrounds is that they had all sorts of modern conveniences: hot water (ooooogh!); food and supplies (!); and pretty girls!!! When was the last time you came across a pretty girl in the wilderness??? The last time _I_ came across such a beast I had been out too long and her name was maybe "Moose" or "Ursa". (Believe me, 'girls' like that will leave a mark!)
So, as an adult, let's just say I still camped in a tent (albeit a bigger one at 8x8 feet); I slept on a cot in my sleeping bag; and I took a shower every day -- hopelessly spoiled. Fast forward several decades and I married a sweetheart from my youth (that I had met long ago in Europe). Because I now had family in Europe (where most of my camping occured after my early twenties) it was a little difficult to go over there and explain to the family that we were going camping. Naturally, family won out and camping ended for about a decade.
As 'the family' "died out", we kind of stopped going to Europe. My wife decided she would like to see the U.S. and that we would do that by camping -- like when we met in our youth! We started doing that in the "traditional fashion" -- with the 8x8 tent and all that. However, resuming camping rekindled my life-long curiosity about truck camping. But, like always, I decided that it didn't make economic sense to buy an RV so the thoughts got shoved aside, yet again.
I grew up in a world of tents but the camping scene (both here and in Europe) had relentlessly gone to RVs. I just tried to ignore RVs but it was getting harder and harder to keep Class A's from driving over our tent in the middle of the night (...I'm sorry but that is just something I can't ignore!). After we had resumed camping, I might have idly talked about truck campers at which time my wife thought that an RV would be a _great_ idea. Before I knew it! We had put down some serious 'dough' on a small customized truck camper!
So _now_, I'm more spoiled than ever! The difference is that we planned the small truck camper to be capable of wilderness expeditions. I realized that we wouldn't utilize a wetbath most of the time so we sacrificed that to save weight while still equiping the camper with a portable toilet and an outside shower with ample hot water and a little shower tent so that we wouldn't miss any creature comforts. ...And air conditioning!!! For _me_, it was all about the air conditioning!
So lets get to the point: (GOD FINALLY!!! -- they're all saying)...
Primitive (organized and designated) campgrounds:
pit toilets (usually)
graded sites
they're usually well signed
they usually have tables (...we don't use'm)
they usually have fire pits or rings (...we don't use'm)
sometimes a water source (...but be sure it's certified as potable)
sometimes (...but less and less) they are free! We use those!
Wilderness boondocking sites:
exclusive (...or at least I used to think so!)
scenery (I'm not the sort that prefers to "hide" in the bushes {shrug})
more photogenic than an engineered site with a pit toilet in the middle of the picture ???
When it comes to wilderness boondocking, I don't try to create "new" campsites, so, you can't really say that these formerly used campsites are in any way "pristine".
I guess we use the primitive organized spots more often because they are like wilderness boondocking spots but are somehow "easier". There is no doubt that you are welcomed there and the ones we use are so small and remote that they are typically free. We _never_ see another person at the ones we select and go to.
Very often, the primitive organized spots are placed strategically near important natural scenery or have adjacent foot-trails. You know, I think I hit on an important reason why we tend to go these primitive sites -- why go off into the brush looking for a suitable spot when there is a strategically located spot that has been carefully outfitted for you??? And it's _free_?!?!
We use the pit toilets for solid waste (allows our portable toilet to last a l-o-o-o-ng time) and we even dump de minimus grey water into the pit toilet (so all our environmental impact is concentrated rather than inflicting it on nefarious patches of ground).
I would caution people about "dumping" into a pit toilet: rather than running up and hugging you, the "authorities" are more likely to run up and _ticket_ you. In the remote places we go to, we are dumping less than ten gallons a day down there so it is not going to overwhelm the resevoir (which is typically a thousand gallons in size, and, the water will probably even _aide_ the digestion of the solid waste). Of course, in a more frequently used and hosted campground, the host is more likely to "drop dime" on you for doing it. The exception (caveat emptor --_my_ theory) might be if you are dumping a small cassette toilet reservoir or a portable toilet reservoir down there. It seems to me that _concentrated_ black water like this is entirely consistent with the purpose of the pit toilet (...just don't use any formaldehyde based deodorizing agents in your portable or cassette -- there are "green" deodorizers that won't arrest the normal pit toilet decomposition).
I guess the wilderness boondocking sites we like best tend to be at strategic sites -- but where no other camping is provided. A few dollars to help maintain a campsite is no skin off my nose. It's not a big deal for us (...rather, _fuel_ is). So I don't mind paying but I'll admit that many government "owned" campgrounds may have high fees, no services, and not be a good value.
* This post was
edited 05/13/08 05:34pm by Testudo *
I'm not in the least confused as to what constitutes a "quiet" genset. I also know that I've been in far to many places, both boondocking and primitive CGs where the "quiet" gensets running at half or more load made life miserable. Echo and reverb do strange things. NO genset is "QUIET"!!!!!! A cheap, noisy genset for a couple of hours to charge batteries is far preferable to on of the big dollar red machines running all day at high load for somebodies AC!
Corky -- you are absolutely right about folks running a genset for anything other than recharging the battery, and then only for the bare essentials. When not in an RV park, we use our electricity for lights (minimally), the water pump (very little), and the furnace (almost never, unless it is literally below freezing inside the trailer, and then only when we shower). My feeling is that if you need more power than that, go to an RV park.
When our batteries need charging, we do our planning before hand and take showers, run the microwave, charge the cell phone and cameras, and do anything else that takes 120 V at the same time. We also take care to aim the exhaust away from where anyone else might be, and to hide the generator behind vehicles, rocks, etc. to further shield the sound. We typically do this in the late afternoon when everyone else is awake and probably preparing meals. I am amazed by people who have to run their generator first thing in the morning, esp. when A/C isn't needed.
We stay on BML land when boon-docking...so that is very primitive. No real campground so to speak. No pit toilets, just along a dusty/bumpy-dirt road in the area where camping is allowed. We just find a spot that has a fire ring..someone built with rocks, maneuver our PUP in between the trees..that we can tell others have parked at...and enjoy the great outdoors---> FREE...and lovely:
We only use the lights in our PUP...when I wash dishes and then I use battery-lanterns in the camper at other times. If the weather is bad...then I cook inside and will need the lights on if cooking after dark, other wise we cook outside over the fire. We use the propane for cooking breakfast and heating. We really don't have to use much propane or drain the battery since we usually boon-dock for weekenders.
4runnerguy wrote: I am amazed by people who have to run their generator first thing in the morning, esp. when A/C isn't needed.
There's no need to be amazed. It's just that those people have have a different life(camp)style than you guys.
I never camp near other folks (unless we are camping together as a group) and I run my gen pretty much from the time I get up to the time I go to bed. Now, I do have a 50' cord to keep the gen(s) far away from camp. And as it's on the other side of the TT we can't hear it (until someone fires up the microwave). Someone is always wanting to plug in something when we family/group camp. So it's easier to just to leave it on all day.
However, if I'm by myself, I don't run it unless I need it.
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