Gale Hawkins wrote: Leather seats keep popping up. Since there is no labor cost difference between leather and cloth is the yardage cost for leather all that much more than cloth?
Yep, leather's very labor-intensive. I saw an episode of 'How It's Made' or a similar show. For leather, picture a bunch of giant thin cookie-cutters, each for cutting out a piece of a seat covering. The workers had to inspect the hides for scars and other damage, then fit these blades so that they avoided the bad spots. Then they slide the whole hide into the cutting press. After it presses the blades thru the hide, they have to separate the cut-outs from the 'cookie cutters'. And this was _after_ a bunch of preparatory steps to thin and dress and cure and color the hide. Even the sewing was totally manual, but IIRC, this was for Porsche seats; it may be partly automated for 'mass-market' leather.
Fabric is _much_ simpler, made uniformly on automated machines and can be cut on automated tables by laser or water-jet in multiple layers.
Jim, "Mo' coffee!"
'06 Tiger CX 'C Minus' on a Silverado 2500HD 4x4, 8.1 & Allison ('Loafer's Glory'); '07 Forester 2.5 ( the 'HANDBSKT'); '95 Toyota SR5 V-6 4x4 pickup, ARB locker, Bilsteins, Warn hubs & M8000, etc;
'94 968, M030 swaybars ('DOPPLER')
It reflects what my dealer (here since 1960's) is doing. Five years ago they had only Class A's in stock. Mix of Class C's, B+'s have been moving up. Yesterday I stopped by for new water filter cartrige and other supplies. They have about 60% of new stock in Class C's & B+'s now. They also built a new facility for trailers about four years ago, and their e-mail site meantions they are going to start renting trailers this year. They have always rented Class A's & Class C's throught out the years.
Mark
Mark & Jan "Old age & treachery win over youth & enthusiasm"
2003 Fleetwood Jamboree 29
What we have seen in B's and what we have in our's is not genuine leather but a product called Ultraleather. It comes on bolts just like fabric and the process of upholstering is the same as fabric installation. There is a cost difference but not nearly as high as genuine leather.
Two months sales do not necessarily make a trend. It could be most of those sales came from the rash of early year RV shows where B's generally do not make much of an impact. Still it is interesting. It seems RVIA.org may be a casualty as well. I get a generic website for sale when I go to it.
I think there is going to be a major shift in RVing because of oil. That major shift is going to affect more than just RVing though. If you go to the http://www.theoildrum.com/ and start looking at the charts on oil production you could get discouraged. Basically oil production peaked in 2005 and the majority of the computer modeling says that the real peak has happened or will happen by 2010. If all that is true then it means there will be a major change in our economy and habits because fuel will start rising at a more accelerated rate compared to the past.
If that happens the outfall will affect RVing in general and quite a bit. Trailering will have to fall off because people will no longer desire to own towable vehicles. Large RVs like A's and C's will fall off because of fuel consumption. B's may gain and very small trailers may gain. We could be heading to a more European model of RVing somewhat like I observed in England.
I feel the B has an advantage. One it can be pressed into and used as a second family vehicle. If I gave up my second vehicle I estimate that use would be less than 4,000 miles per year for me not commuting to work. The RVing portion of mileage is variable above that and more than half our nights have been staying with far flung family (MI, WI, IN & VA) all in locations we could not take a larger RV or trailer. So our choice was a good one in that regard. If fuel gets dear it could mean staying closer to home. We bought the B because the vast majority of the National Forest campsites in MN and WI have a 22 ft. limit so we shouldn't be restricted in choice. Our choosing the B was based on all those considerations. And if fuel gets really dear, well, we have an extra bedroom cottage in our yard.
Davydd
2005 Pleasure-Way Plateau Sprinter B Camper Van
Davydd is the Welsh spelling for David with an English twist using a v instead of an f. See Our Pleasure-Way and my pork tenderloin sandwiches
Visited states in an RV
Quick question;
If people are buying Bs as a second vehicle etc. isn't there a down side during resale as these RVs will have an awful lot of miles on them?
Davydd wrote: Two months sales do not necessarily make a trend.
It is a comparison of the same two month period in two different years. And this is the time that many RV shows are going on. Yes, it is a snapshot, but I think a very informative one - and it actually shows a quite significant trend. I think it is a wake-up call to the B manufacturers.
The high Canadian dollar caught our manufacturing sector off guard. Because worker productivity in Canada is a bit lower than in the US, our manufacturers were using this low Canadian dollar as an artificial way of competing. Recall, our dollar was not much more than 60 cents US a few short years ago, and now it's roughly at par. The sudden increase in fuel prices in both countries has also surprised the manufacturers. I agree with the previous comments that the "B" makers have to reduce the standard luxury features and provide a more basic, and therefore lighter unit. They apparently figured that they needed these standard luxury features to compete with the luxury A's that "rich" older folks find too hard to drive, which may be true, but they do need more basic models as well. Heck, we just received a brochure from Roadtrek, and they offer:
more open interiors with solid real cherry cabinet doors (!)
granite counter tops with European style stoves (!)
home theatre systems (!)
....among other things. These all add weight and $$$
For us, we're happy with our older (1996) Roadtrek and hope to keep it on the road for as long as possible. Even though it gets "only" about 14-16 mpg (sorry Rodger!), we couldn't afford a new Sprinter at these somewhat exhorbitant prices. Just our 2 cents worth.
Just wait 'til the world metals market prices start to hit new vehicle prices... 'specially aluminum and copper. I have the feeling that the mostly-plastics car ain't far in the future. I used to tell my plastics classes about the molded plastic cars that Chrysler had in development for the 3rd world. Dunno what happened to that idea. Of course, oil prices may have an impact on developements there, too.
A google for 'polymotor' turned up this interesting diccussion... http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=130700&page=1 ... a bit dated now, but they did run a largely plastic engine about a decade + ago, and Mitsubishi had prototype ceramic diesels running about then, too; no cooling system needed, and little lubrication (takes energy to pump lube oil around).
Jim, "Time is what keeps everything from happening at once."
Handbasket wrote: Just wait 'til the world metals market prices start to hit new vehicle prices... 'specially aluminum and copper. I have the feeling that the mostly-plastics car ain't far in the future. I used to tell my plastics classes about the molded plastic cars that Chrysler had in development for the 3rd world. Dunno what happened to that idea. Of course, oil prices may have an impact on developements there, too.
A google for 'polymotor' turned up this interesting diccussion... http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=130700&page=1 ... a bit dated now, but they did run a largely plastic engine about a decade + ago, and Mitsubishi had prototype ceramic diesels running about then, too; no cooling system needed, and little lubrication (takes energy to pump lube oil around).
Jim, "Time is what keeps everything from happening at once."
Except that plastics are mostly made from petroleum. Without artificial lube, or alternative energy sources, our gooses may be cooked.
Erroll, Mary, Duffy the Wonder Doxie & "Ollie"
1996 RoadTrek 210 Popular, on 1995 Chevy Chassis
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