loveshack1 wrote: The manufacturers - all the way from the car assemblers to the engine and tranny builders need to work on the "alternative fuels" thing FIRST!!!
Aerodynamics will only get you so far, it's the fuel overall that we're worried about. My big question is this:
Will the manufacturers and the oil companies work together to actually make something so simple as an engine that will run on vegetable oil (oh, wait, we have the DIESEL), or will they work in collusion to make us suffer some more?
Any kind of solution for the foreseeable future will have to involve much more efficient vehicles powered by a variety of fuels and power plants, plus much more use of public transit where feasible. There isn't enough land on the planet let alone North America to produce enough bio fuel to replace gas and diesel. Besides, what would we eat. Hydrogen is great but currently takes a lot of energy to produce and is difficult to transport and store.
Fact is, fossil fuels were created in huge quantities over millions of years and the chances of finding one silver bullet to replace them in a matter of a couple of decades is pretty darn slim.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
Its a corporate average, that means if they've got 4 models that get 40mpg they can still sell 2 that get 20. Plus if the GVW guidlines dont change, trucks larger than 1/2 tons still wont count anyway. Its not that difficult to achieve mileage over 40mpg, ask a volkswagen TDI owner.
2007 Montana Mountaineer 307RKD
2006 Chevrolet 2500 4x4 crew Duramax/allison
Personally I think the new standards are a joke, 2015 and 2020? C'mon, they should be able to do that now, or at least in the next year or two. And the credit for using E85, thats a joke, as well. As just about anyone who has used it indicates a reduction in power and mileage. and at what expense, growing crops for fuel instead of food. All thats done is spike the cost of food, and create world wide shortages of food. For no real savings in pollutants.
coloradodave wrote: Personally I think the new standards are a joke, 2015 and 2020? C'mon, they should be able to do that now, or at least in the next year or two.
The 'Smart Car' (what a lie in advertising) sold a few thousands in Canada and with 2 seats and a 40 horsepower of diesel it gets great milage (let's ignore it was also a heavy polluter and was twice the price of a larger car). They can do it, but would people buy it? Should people buy it? In the case of the 'Smart Car' the CARB and New York state would not even let them be sold in their part of the US.
How many tens of thousands of 5 passenger cars are sold, for that matter look how many people are driving a 6.0 litre truck to work (guy beside me does, and he has twice the distance to commute)?
Anyway quiting time, I'm off on my 3.6 seconds to 100 kilometer/ transport that gets better gas milage than the smart car. Ya the bike becomes less of a toy every day. :-0 Maybe I can even justify the new K1200R I've been looking at and do it in a half second less.
Varoooooooooooooooooooooooom.
horton333 wrote: In the case of the 'Smart Car' the CARB and New York state would not even let them be sold in their part of the US.
The Smarts they now sell here are gasoline-powered and are available in all 50 states. The EPA fuel estimates aren't so great when you consider the size of the car, though.
A big part of the problem is that we don't want to sacrifice performance to achieve better fuel economy. We want cars/truck that go 0-60 in X.X seconds, but somehow fail to recognize that high performance takes LOTS more fuel. While the VW turbo-diesel of the 80s got 50mpg, it was a slug as a performer, and many folks just couldn't accept that. The new Smart Cars can get 50-60mpg and still perform quite well, but they are very small and light. We have to be realistic in our expectations.
coloradodave wrote: Personally I think the new standards are a joke, 2015 and 2020? C'mon, they should be able to do that now, or at least in the next year or two. And the credit for using E85, thats a joke, as well. As just about anyone who has used it indicates a reduction in power and mileage. and at what expense, growing crops for fuel instead of food. All thats done is spike the cost of food, and create world wide shortages of food. For no real savings in pollutants.
+ one I have been running test with 2 cars and a van.The two cars went from 27.5 to 30 MPG to 24.3 to 26.5 on E 85.The van my TV 2004 E 350 went from 13 .4 to 12 MPG towing over same road.So the only change is how much more you pay per mile for fuel.How is that going to help save oil.The only thing it is doing is running up the price of food and fleecing Americans worse than they all ready were.I will pay more at the pump to stay a way from E 85.And it will still be cheaper per mile than E 85.
Wink
marvmarcy wrote: If my rig with 14 tires, standing 13' tall, 60' long, 8' wide, weighing 36,000lbs can get 9 mpg at 65mph, why can't a car/truck with 4 tires, standing 5' tall, 20' long, 6' wide, weighing 3,600 lbs get much better than 35mpg? Marv
Same reason your rig doesn't get 50 times better mileage than a 6,000,000 lbs freight train.
Aerodynamics, mechanical drag, engine thermal efficiency, and many other factors, do not scale linearly.
That said, I agree with your general idea - we North Americans are too wasteful when it comes to power. A diesel LR Defender is probably more than enough for most SUV owners, and they get almost 30 mpg. Put that 130hp 4 cyl in a modern aerodynamic CUV and you'd easily see 35 mpg.
But unfortunately, most North Americans look at 130hp with disgust in their eyes...
RoyJ wrote: A diesel LR Defender is probably more than enough for most SUV owners, and they get almost 30 mpg. Put that 130hp 4 cyl in a modern aerodynamic CUV and you'd easily see 35 mpg.
But unfortunately, most North Americans look at 130hp with disgust in their eyes...
And the CARB hates diesels so they almost regulated them out of existance in everything but trucks.
I think there are a lot of people who would buy moderate horsepower diesels, I see a lot of TDIs on the roada and they are not cheap and - yes personal opinion - they look ugly. At this time the only diesel you can buy in anything like an economy car is in the volkwagon. Wait a minute, for whatever reason Volkwagon has temporarily halted selling TDIs, at the same time the price is through the roof.
And yes when the Smart car went to the much less efficient gas motor Canada lost the diesel option there. Wait a minute, till late in the summer there is no economy diesel for sale in a new car here!
RoyJ wrote: A diesel LR Defender is probably more than enough for most SUV owners, and they get almost 30 mpg. Put that 130hp 4 cyl in a modern aerodynamic CUV and you'd easily see 35 mpg.
But unfortunately, most North Americans look at 130hp with disgust in their eyes...
And the CARB hates diesels so they almost regulated them out of existance in everything but trucks.
I think there are a lot of people who would buy moderate horsepower diesels, I see a lot of TDIs on the roada and they are not cheap and - yes personal opinion - they look ugly. At this time the only diesel you can buy in anything like an economy car is in the volkwagon. Wait a minute, for whatever reason Volkwagon has temporarily halted
selling TDIs, at the same time the price is through the roof.
And yes when the Smart car went to the much less efficient gas motor Canada lost the diesel option there. Wait a minute, till late in the summer there is no economy diesel for sale in a new car here!
Must be those big oil criminals
The new TDI is due out this summer using the Bluetec techology developed with Mercedes and Audi. It will be a 2 liter engine producing 140 Hp and 235 Lb Ft torque. No urea injection with this one. Try and find a stock 2L gas engine that puts out that kind of torque. Mileage in the Jetta is expected to be in the range of 44 city 52 Hwy to the Imperial Gallon. It could also appear in the new small Tiguan crossover a year later and don't be surprised if it is offered in the Audi A3 and maybe even the A4.
Honda is also planning on introducing a diesel Accord this year followed by a diesel Civic. Nissan and others have diesels for North America in the works.
As someone who bought a TDI when it was the only game in town and quite enjoy it, I am looking forward to even more diesels to choose from.
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