BigSkyBob wrote: A little off topic I guess, but since I was the OP I can hijack my own thread lol. What I don't understand is the constant rant about first and second year coach depreciation. My coach is a 2008 Camelot and the MONACO MSRP was right at 300K. I feel I negotiated a decent deal at 220K. The 2008 models aren't in the NADA schedules yet so I checked a 2007 Camelot with the exact options and standard equipment as mine and it was listed at $264,550. I can only assume the 2008 models would be somewhat higher in value. I'm hearing check the NADA book for this and that on values so I did. Now someone needs to show me where I'm off base on this one and where I'm losing my undies on first year depreciation.
Bob, I agree with you. The validity of the depreciation argument depends entirely upon what one pays for the unit in the first place. If you were to trade/sell your coach, no one knows or cares how much it actually cost you. What matters at that point is the NADA. Those who are able to purchase new coaches for 25% off MSRP have pretty much eliminated the "depreciation expense".
Bill
Bill & Ann
2007 Tiffin Phaeton 40QDH
2007 Jeep Liberty
Our "Cat Rescue Girls", Sadie and Aimee
BigSkyBob wrote: A little off topic I guess, but since I was the OP I can hijack my own thread lol. What I don't understand is the constant rant about first and second year coach depreciation. My coach is a 2008 Camelot and the MONACO MSRP was right at 300K. I feel I negotiated a decent deal at 220K. The 2008 models aren't in the NADA schedules yet so I checked a 2007 Camelot with the exact options and standard equipment as mine and it was listed at $264,550. I can only assume the 2008 models would be somewhat higher in value. I'm hearing check the NADA book for this and that on values so I did. Now someone needs to show me where I'm off base on this one and where I'm losing my undies on first year depreciation.
I don't see your point, Just because the NADA says the used value of your 2007 is worth $264,550, Why in the world would anyone pay that price for your 2007. You are not the only one that can buy a new coack with 27% off MSRP.Even if the 2008 went up 10% and had a MSRP of $330,000, I could buy it for -27% off = $240,900 for a 2008 Most everyone knows this, so why would NADA say your 2007 is worth $264,550, and why would anyone believe that?
My coach is a 2008. If I understand your comment, I should trash the NADA concept completely and just rely upon the market forces to dictate value. If "anyone" can buy a new or newer coach why in the world are so many folks upside down on their loans? I read here on this forum when I first arrived that a full 80% of folks purchasing new coaches didn't have a clue as to what was a fair price to pay and were happy with 8 to 10% off MSRP. I guess I'm just out of touch and don't know what drives market values.
BigSkyBob wrote: I should trash the NADA concept completely and just rely upon the market forces to dictate value
Well, no and yes. NADA gathers information from it's dealers on what they sell coaches for at the retail level. The NADA price is not what you as a private party should expect to get for your coach. Apparently they don't track private party sales (how could they?) nor do they track what the dealer pays you for trade-in. Again, they only track what dealers say they are selling RV's for and, of course, the data is all governed by the "honor system". Some speculate that RV dealers are motivated to inflate numbers they give NADA (or Kelly Bluebook) for "high retail" to keep prices up for there sales and to deflate numbers for "low retail" or "wholesale" to keep prices lower for what they give for trade-ins.
On your second point "rely upon the market forces to dictate value" you have no choice. The value of your unit is what an informed buyer will pay - not what you think it's worth or what you want to get and not what NADA says (although NADA supposedly reflects the market but it seems to be rather high in my experience). Can't tell you how many coach owners I talked to when we were looking who told me "well, I owe xxxx so I'm selling it for xxxx plus yy". They had no clue as to basic economics. The market is the only thing that CAN (and will) dictate what your unit is worth and it will. It's the law of supply and demand and there are a LOT of used coaches out there right now.
In my experience while shopping for a used coach earlier this year, almost without exception when I called about a private party ad and found it was sold I found it had sold for slighly less than the NADA "low retail". That seems to be the "market" price for used coaches these days - something less than NADA "low retail".
With regards to depreciation, everything depreciates. If you got an exceptional deal on your coach then you got a head start on the first 1-2 years of depreciation but remember, very few people pay full retail. The current "value" doesn't really matter because it's all paper losses until you actually sell it and there is no reason to believe that a 2007 or 2008 coach will have any less depreciation than a 1995, 2000, or 2004 coach.
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Ron
N6QL
2002 36' Country Coach Allure 350HP Cummins
2001 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1978 Cessna T210M My Flying My website
Hi, BigSkyBob
A view from the UK
We also have trade guide books and whilst helpfull are only a guide.
I have spent over 30 years in the motor industry and have last count with the number of times customers have come into the dealership and stated that "The Glasses Guide (same as your NADA or Kellys) says my vehicle is worth this much". Sometimes the only answer to these people is to advise them to contact Glasses Guide and see if they will write them a cheque for that amount!
As has been stated the worth of a product is what the open market will pay for it. Look at the housing market.
If you want the true value of your RV try this..........
Phone your supplying dealler and ask him to buy back your RV.
NO PX you just want cash. Do not be put off, as he will not want to tell you, but if you persist you will get the TRUE VALUE.
Here is the problem.
You may not want to be told this much truth.
If anyone else is unsure about depresiation,again try the experiment.
Phone a dealler and ask him to buy your pretend RV, in fact phone a few, then sit down if you have not allready fallen down, have a stiff drink, and contemplate reality.
Hope this helps
Regards
Tel
I agree with (recurry) the NADA is only a guide of an average price of what the dealers have sold in the past.. But sellers have to use common sense. As it has been stated many times on lots of forums that most new Dps can be purchased straight out with no trade for 25- 27% off MSRP. With that in mind you can look up a 2007 in the NADA and that suggested price is more than a new 2008. Example If I look up a 2007 43’ Dutch Star with the floor plan of my choice the NADA shows an average retail of $276,750.00. Now I know for a fact I can order a New 2009 Dutch Aire (updated name for 2009 43’ Dutch star) of the same floor plan for straight out price of $252,590.00. Most sellers want something to justify getting a higher price. Like one person said before, most private party sales are sold below the low retail of the NADA. And the old saying we have all heard,” I will keep the price higher , I can always come down.” The problem with this approach is you unit will not stand out from all the other overpriced units. You have to make up your mind weather you want to sell the unit, or do you just want to display some pictures .Odds are you are not going to make a profit, so if you really want o sell the unit get real, and advertise your bottom dollar and stick to it. At least your ad will stand out and get you some calls. That said I have heard,” I still owe a big price on the unit and have to have what the NADA price is to pay it off“. Stop and think, If you did not do your home work and paid too much to start for the unit to start, that is not the fault of the possible buyer of your unit.
You can negotiate the best 30% of deal that you want to. The minute you drive it home, you have lost even more.
Look on Ebay at all the ridiculous starting bids or reserves. These people are way upside down.
I figure I can either put down a sizable down payment when I buy or plan on writing a check to get out of it. Kind of pay now or pay later philosophy.
Good luck.
* This post was
edited 04/28/08 09:08am by time_to_go_now *
Jim and Deanna
Tiffin Allegro 35QBA 2007 Carson Trailer 22' Titan TH Trailer Toad
Me, Wife, Boy/10, Boy/7, Girl/5
Faith/Springer
1985 Toyota 4Runner
five quads, three kids, two motorcycles, one wife, one dog, one cat!
You are right, most of these sellers are way out of touch. I quess they think nobody else knows what you can buy a unit straight out for. I talked to a dealer and he still had a new 2007 in stock, and I mentioned he could do better because the unit was going on 2 years old. he said oh no, in the rv industry new is new it don't make any difference what the year is. Maybe some people will believe that.I can just see me bring a 2007 unit to a dealer with 150 miles on it and try to convince him it is still new. Ha. Most people know or should know the inflated prices on DPs is to allow for a trade. So this confuses most private sellers that are not taking a trade. A person i was listening to around the campfire. Was bragging that he bought a 2008 43' Dutch star with a MSRP of $351,890.00, and traded his 2002 Monaco Windsor, and the dealer gave him $151,890.00 for his unit and traded for an even $200,000.00. Now, I did not want to bust his bubble, But the dealer only gave him about $52,000 of real money, and about $100,000.00 of inflated money. i know this for a fact a year later I purchased a 2009 Dutch Aire (2009 new name) With the same MSRP as his ($352,000.00 ) Straight out price of $254,000.00.
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