This is an intriguing thread, sort of like Monday morning quarterbacking. Clearly without detailed insight on a mfg's current fiscal status and their short and long term biz plan pretty hard to forecast their respective chances of continued success.
I think one of the overlooked items required to succeed is a strong sales channel. So I would expect the likes of Fleetwood, Monaco, Country Coach, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnie and several others to fair well assuming they've been able to adapt to lower sales volumes. Simply because they have solid dealers in virtual every US market. Remember if the dealer is to survive long term he may have had to stop selling secondary brands like Alpha to keep his relationship with Newmar solid. When this downturn ends the dealer needs to have the right brands if they want to enjoy the next growth cycle.
I'm hopeful that smaller volume builders like Foretravel, The New Bluebird and the Prevost converters can survive because they are small enough to adapt more quickly to the downturn and not as dealer dependent... some or all of their business is consumer direct.
Most of the ones I'v named also have great value in their individual brand names so unless they kill themselves with massive debt you'd think that a buyer or additional investors would be possible options.
The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page. ~St. Augustine
2007 Foretravel Nimbus
Cummins ISM 500HP
Allison MH4000w/Retarder
tropicalgeezer wrote: Regarding Crane, I read the closure notice from Alfa to mean financing issues, as opposed to product quality issues.
Am I wrong?
Here is a partial quote from an article on the issue. Apparently, they had issues with Crane Composites not standing behind their product.
"Crean cited “ongoing challenges" with supplier Crane Composites Inc. as a factor in the closing, aggravating adverse economic conditions. Several manufacturers alleged Crane had supplied defective sidewall materials, including now defunct National RV Holdings Inc. The company filed a lawsuit against the Channahon, Ill.-based firm that was settled in March.
“Alfa has been fighting an uphill battle and the final straw was certainly Crane’s unwillingness to stand behind its product,” said Crean. “We’d like to thank all of the owners and dealers who over the past 35 years have been our catalyst and our inspiration.”
Safe travels.
* This post was
edited 05/03/08 11:13am by lbligh *
It's interesting that no other countries outside of the USA have an RV industry based on truck chassis construction. The USA still has the cheapest fuel outside of the Middle East (the UK hit another high of GBP 1.25 a liter for diesel - that's $9.75 a US gallon) and it's unique RV industry still struggles along, shedding the weaker manufactures along the way.
On the basis that fuel is not going to revert back to previous levels, the US RV Industry is, in my opinion, likely to gradually change from building 40' truck based units into more European style B+ fuel efficient models such as those built on the Sprinter/Mercedes chassis. Those that can react to the new market will survive, those that invested heavily in building todays models will struggle to survive.
RV Park Finder
Fulltimers
2002 Beaver Santiam 38DST + Banks + 99 Jeep GC
DH,DW,Jake and Indie
That quote from Alfa is interesting. Yes , National had the same problem but unlike Alfa they stepped up and repaired all the sidewalls at no cost to the customer. Alfa did nothing. If you read the Alfa forum you will see that this is the way they treat their customers. Alfa produced what is in my opinion a glitzy piece of junk that literally falls apart. The owners have had to rely on dealers to do all kinds of after mfrd. repairs and those dealers have not been paid by Alfa. Just your basic crooks!! I do feel sorry for some of the owners who were sucked into the Alfa myth.
Moisheh
* This post was
edited 05/04/08 09:09am by an administrator/moderator *
And yet... as a Travel Supreme owner, I watched all these goings on with keen interest. Now that Jayco has bought the TS facility, and presumably tooling, it would appear they are re-entering the high end Class A and fifth wheel market. To me, this is good news, as I would expect them to build re-badged TS units, meaning I will have continued access to parts, or at least many of them.
It is strange that Jayco elects to re-enter the high end market, now that so many are disappearing....
John
2007 Dodge 3500 Quad CTD DRW LB 6 spd auto
TrailerSaver TS3, Mor/Ryde pin box
Carriage Cameo 33CKQ, 2 AC, Mor/Ryde IS & disk brakes
tropicalgeezer wrote: I wonder about companies such as Damon, Coachmen, and Fleetwood, as well as Thor????
What about Foretravel?
The strongest Class A companies seem to be Monaco and Tiffin, and maybe Newmar?
Must be a regional thing as far as the brands go. Around here, I see by far more Fleetwood and Winnebago products than anything else. These two manufacturers probably make up a good 40%+ around here.
I see things from Monaco once in awhile. I also see tons of older Newmar DutchStars, although I do not see many newer ones. Guess the older ones were made to last. I very seldom see a Tiffin product.
So there we were, brand spanking new at the whole RV thing. Decided to buy a fifth wheel to live in during 12-15 month construction assignments rather than rent houses or apartments. Seemed like the smart thing to do. Well... It started with the decision to purchase an Alfa Gold from Earnhardt RV in Mesa, AZ early in 2006. We knew nothing about any RV brand, but based our decision partly on insulation, the liveability features (since we'd be living in it, not vacationing briefly,) and space to accomodate my husband's 6'4" height, not only in the shower, but also that we could have a king size bed. Fine, that seemed to make sense. Didn't that seem to make sense?
First day on location at the first RV park, Texas panhandle. Black tank defect above the valve. Obviously we couldn't live in it until that was resolved. Six months later, the electronic black tank dump valve switch was shot and had to be replaced with a manual pull-type valve, which actually works. The back-up manual turn screw would NOT open the valve for the authorized repair guy who came to help us. Had to have a guy with a septic tank pump truck and a small enough hose to go down the toilet hole (through the bathroom window,) and then they had to break into the valve. Imagine the result. Yes, a toxic cleanup guy came that day to spray industrial strength solution all throughout the basement compartment. Repeatedly. And he left me with more to spray later.
Okay, 5 months later. Last day on location in the panhandle and the curbside slide failed to retract. What a fiasco getting that resolved. Wouldn't move an inch ratcheting it as directed. Five men to lift with their backs and push while husband followed instructions over the phone to an Alfa guy... car battery, jumpers, etc. The coach went straight into a repair shop in Houston.
Now it's 10 months later and only one of the three slides would retract this time around. Funny how we expected the worst. Funnier still how I called Alfa last Thursday and heard, "you've reached the office of blah-blah-blah. As of April 28, regretably, Alfa Leisure is no longer in business." I just shook my head.
Regretably, we bought an Alfa. What a hard lemon to learn. Lesson. I mean what a hard lesson to learn. Husband says all we can do now is look forward to hurricane season. So much for the grace to accept such a miserable hand.
* This post was
edited 05/05/08 08:27am by Dash1029 *
Whether the weather is cold,
Whether the weather is hot,
We'll weather the weather, whatever the weather,
Whether we like it or not!
Dash1029 wrote: So there we were, brand spanking new at the whole RV thing. Decided to buy a fifth wheel to live in during 12-15 month construction assignments rather than rent houses or apartments. Seemed like the smart thing to do. Well... It started with the decision to purchase an Alfa Gold from Earnhardt RV in Mesa, AZ early in 2006. We knew nothing about any RV brand, but based our decision partly on insulation, the liveability features (since we'd be living in it, not vacationing briefly,) and space to accomodate my husband's 6'4" height, not only in the shower, but also that we could have a king size bed. Fine, that seemed to make sense. Didn't that seem to make sense?
First day on location at the first RV park, Texas panhandle. Black tank defect above the valve. Obviously we couldn't live in it until that was resolved. Six months later, the electronic black tank dump valve switch was shot and had to be replaced with a manual pull-type valve, which actually works. The back-up manual turn screw would NOT open the valve for the authorized repair guy who came to help us. Had to have a guy with a septic tank pump truck and a small enough hose to go down the toilet hole (through the bathroom window,) and then they had to break into the valve. Imagine the result. Yes, a toxic cleanup guy came that day to spray industrial strength solution all throughout the basement compartment. Repeatedly. And he left me with more to spray later.
Okay, 5 months later. Last day on location in the panhandle and the curbside slide failed to retract. What a fiasco getting that resolved. Wouldn't move an inch ratcheting it as directed. Five men to lift with their backs and push while husband followed instructions over the phone to an Alfa guy... car battery, jumpers, etc. The coach went straight into a repair shop in Houston.
Now it's 10 months later and only one of the three slides would retract this time around. Funny how we expected the worst. Funnier still how I called Alfa last Thursday and heard, "you've reached the office of blah-blah-blah. As of April 28, regretably, Alfa Leisure is no longer in business." I just shook my head.
Regretably, we bought an Alfa. What a hard lemon to learn. Lesson. I mean what a hard lesson to learn. Husband says all we can do now is look forward to hurricane season. So much for the grace to accept such a miserable hand.
I feel for you. It seems like quality in the RV industry is either hit or miss. I was worried about quality when I bought our last 2 rv's, I did Not want to get a lemon. That is the main reason I did not want to order a unit. If you order one, you get what you get. I spent hours going over them at the dealers lot, with a fine tooth comb before purchase. When we bought our Jayco fifth wheel, we were looking at another brand, and after really checking them out good, i changed my mind fast. To be fair, I also went through a Jayco that appeared to be built on a friday afternoon, lots of little problems. We totally checked out the one we bought, and it has had No problems as of yet, knock on wood...
06 Jayco 31RLS
07 Dodge Dually Cummins SLT Long Bed - 6 Speed Manual
Mr. T, compassion is always welcome in our camp! Thank you for that. Your experience and manner of investigation ought to have been ours as well, had we only known and were less trusting.
Hill country? Love Hill Country! In fact, we were convinced we'd park this box somewhere in the Kerrville area one day and stick it out as long as possible while looking for land to build that "someday" home. We've spent alot of time at Cloud Dance Cabins in Concan, which is how we discovered Kerrville and the general vicinity. Don't want the big city life when retirement rolls around in a few short years, yet Kerrville seems just right. Our kids and Grands are in the Houston area and we don't want the whole evacuation lifestyle either. The 2-3 years here in Beaumont will be quite enough! As I understand it, insurance companies "insure Stupid," so if a Big One is on the way, we'll put the valuables in the truck and hit the trail, GLADLY leaving the Alfa behind!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, loudly proclaiming---WOW WHAT A
RIDE!!!
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