FishingFan
California
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Joined: 05/06/2008
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Sorry, didn't want to forget you boat guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yple0Vrxh5s
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davegvg
Los angeles
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Joined: 03/02/2008
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An electric Sandcar is an extremely viable. It a totally fine alternative as long as you understand the following ownership caveats-
Having had years of experience with battery operated mobility toys and having “cracked” the Segways digital key system so as to allow for 30 mph top end Ive learned a lot about battery performance and issues - most notably how draining and charging speeds affect overall life and performance of said battery. This applies to Nickel Meta l Hydrides and lithium ion/polymer batteries.
Range is 100% dependant on driving style- 2 runs full bore up oldsmobile and your 200 mile range is now probably 50 and the batteries are sizzling hot. Batteries heat up when being called on for amperage fast and heat KILLS batteries.
In a place like glamis Id bet the range is more like 25-30 miles realistically.
Batteries Heat up when being charged and you wouldn’t want to run a car down to 10% and then fast charge it – that will kill the batteries in half a season. Smart charging capability is an absolute must for longevity in a vehicle like this.
IF you cost factor in replacing batteries, the cost will be just under a gas powered car including generator gas- When charging the current draw will not peg out a medium sized genny because to throw a constant 2000 watts into them will simply overheat and kill the batteries.
Better yet if it does have onboard smart charging strap a Honda 1000 to the thing and have it constantly running while driving.
I don’t see how it could be fitted with regen braking and not weigh a ton, and keep in mind the best regen braking system can only achieve .3 g’s of decel before mechanical overrides them- on the street really cool- On a steep dune .3 is useless.
A “round of” Lithion’s for this things is going to be freaking expensive.
2 segway batteries, enough for one bike was 900 bones.
Their lifespan will be directly proportional to how you treat them. They may make it a half a season or 2 seasons, prepare to buy new ones if you want to drive this like an lS2’turbo. Better yet buy a second set and slow charge them once they’ve cooled from run 1 for added life and swap them out in “packs”- if this car is well designed you should be able to remove and replace the batteries easily preferably without tools, or with simple tools.
Performance can be astounding- as good or better than gas turbo engine rails, and it will be just heavy and having 100% of the tirque available at zero RPM will actually be harder on a transaxle (said mendeola ) than a comparable gas motor. Samarium cobalt electric motors can generate ALL the performance one could ever ask for – it’s the batteries that let you down.
The whole quiet thing is a plus to me and not a danger- I cant hear anyone around me because of my vehicles noise anyway, and if someone’s walking around in the deep dunes they’ll hear you laughing waay off in the distance.
Lets see how the car is really engineered- 100K may be a bargain.
Davegvg
04 Titan Crew Cab 4x4 Big Tow/stillen brakes
08 Kawasaki kfx450
07 Raptor 700
07 19ft nitrous Hyperlight toy hauler
2 segway gen 1 human transporters
93 21ft Laveycraft Sebring tunnel 406 sb
06 Infinity G35 coupe
05 Kalamazoo bread breaker 5 dual fuel w/ initials laser cut into cooking grate
08 HP 8600 dual quad core/nvidia 5600 w sdi os- RH2.6 linux 16GB ram.
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FishingFan
California
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Joined: 05/06/2008
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and for you guys that drive motorhomes, you'll need one of these to pull behind it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qTjXItcJtc&feature=related
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FishingFan
California
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Dave, the batteries for this car cost over $35,000. I asked because i wanted to know how much it would cost me if i had to replace them. However they come with a significant warranty if they were to ever go out so i don't have to worry about that. I've only been to Glamis a few times but I test drove this car with the company that built it and we rode for 3 hours straight before we ran out of juice in Pismo. The batteries because they are lithium ion can charge from 0% to 100% thousands of times. We made Runs up hills (no where near as big as oldsmobile in glamis), top speeds across the flats of around 101 according to my GPS (they claim 105 to 108), etc. I don't have figures on the regenerative braking or how much it adds to the battery power. I've sent off an email but i probably won't hear back as it takes them several days at minimum to get back to me.
If you go back to the first few pages i posted info on what the car weighs including battery packs, etc. Here is a link to the generic form of the battery. Although their's look similar, i guess it was custom made for the application.
http://sensorsmart.com/solar_products.html
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Toy Collector
Vista, Ca
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Joined: 06/18/2004
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I cannot believe how gullible some of you are.
If you cannot see this guy is trying to sell his own product, you deserve to lose thousands and thousands of dollars following his lead.
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FishingFan
California
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I have not tried to sell one cow since i have been on here. But if you need beef cattle, PM and i will be glad to discuss in detail.
Really, I just spent $105,000 (putting down a sizeable non-refundable deposit) on a electric sandcar. To my knowledge, the only prototype they've ever built and one of the first ones ever to be built and on top that with only a few hours test drive. If you think i would do that without knowing as much detail about it as possible, you must be crazy.
Tesla Motorsports requires a huge deposit down and they're not even offering test drives anymore. I got in early on those.
* This post was
edited 05/12/08 08:09pm by FishingFan *
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davegvg
Los angeles
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Im intrigued and interested. I reread your posts- great info.
35K sounds about right based on how expensive the segway batteries are.
Whats a significant warranty? Is the warranty a 100% replacement warranty or a sliding time based scale? Li/poly would be even cooler for that kind of dough.
I woudnt doubt that a qualified buyer on a test drive would be given an unlocked car and could drive it to the point of overheating to simply impress a potential sale.
Arriving back at camp with 1.85% left in the banks is detrimental to the battery packs for sure. Unless it forces a spare pack to be conserved through clever motor control.
How is the battery level diplay shown to the driver?
How much tech is really in this car? Who manufacturers the motor control components? Does the car have electronic limiting controls that scale back output based on heat monitoring, or is it a simple analog style discharge controller that lets you dump full amperage into the drive train at any time?
It does not sound like it does based on you cycling it 98+% or arriving back at camp with 1.85% left in it on your one test drive.
Who do I call for a three hour "test drive" at full speed on a 100K car of which maybe three or 4 have yet been built? (I along with others am a bit suspect of who you may be, but dont really care Im interested in this car)
Can you run a serial charger concurrently?
I have the means to buy whatever Id like and am in the market for a rail- I'm intrigued but have many questions.
Davegvg
04 Titan Crew Cab 4x4 Big Tow/stillen brakes
08 Kawasaki kfx450
07 Raptor 700
07 19ft nitrous Hyperlight toy hauler
2 segway gen 1 human transporters
93 21ft Laveycraft Sebring tunnel 406 sb
06 Infinity G35 coupe
05 Kalamazoo bread breaker 5 dual fuel w/ initials laser cut into cooking grate
08 HP 8600 dual quad core/nvidia 5600 w sdi os- RH2.6 linux 16GB ram.
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FishingFan
California
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Joined: 05/06/2008
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Dave, your getting into details that i don't know. I sent you a PM on some of your questions. I do know it has a digital gauge in the dash that tells range, battery life and more. I don't know what Brand.
From what i can tell there is a ton of engineering in the car. According to them, it's been in the works for three years. Don't know if that's true or not?
I got a 5 year written warranty on the batteries and two year on the motor and controller.
The controller is programmable but i don't get a copy of the software to program it. if i wanted something changed, i would have to take it back to them to have changed and that would cost me. What all is controlled i just don't know. I do know that the traction can be controlled as well as rev limit.
I should clarify that i never actually drove the car. I rode in the car with one of the owners. Although i asked and paid for the test drive, i didn't get to drive it personally.
You'll have to ask them some of your questions because i'm not sure what some of the terms you used even mean.
They are not open to the public so don't bother calling, they don't answer their phone and all the mail boxes are full. Calling just waste your cell phone minutes. Email is the only way i can get a hold of them and that takes several days.
Jeremy
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davegvg
Los angeles
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Thanks Jeremy, in any case you've provided more info than the website.
A vehicle like this should have redundant digital motor controllers with the charge controller system combined “like a big segway” capable of monitoring the output/input against a measured rise in heat monitored in real time from all battery packs from both discharge and charge. Without strict controls in place the 35K pack will end up a molten mess.
If the car is remotely this sophisticated, Id bet your drive was completely “software unlocked” and represented 100% of the available performance at the expense of range and more importantly the lifespan of battery pack on both discharge and charge levels.
My personal experience and many reputable sources will agree that L-ion’s indeed do have temp and cycling issues. A decent article stating these facts on l-ions can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Disadvantages
To offer a 5year warranty without digital limiting motor control would be lunacy.
I have zero doubts it would run like an LS2 turbo.
Id bet it would even be faster with the software control of the car “In Demo Mode”
-but for how long on a power managed car that is software tuned for mileage or battery life?
We'll see.
Davegvg
04 Titan Crew Cab 4x4 Big Tow/stillen brakes
08 Kawasaki kfx450
07 Raptor 700
07 19ft nitrous Hyperlight toy hauler
2 segway gen 1 human transporters
93 21ft Laveycraft Sebring tunnel 406 sb
06 Infinity G35 coupe
05 Kalamazoo bread breaker 5 dual fuel w/ initials laser cut into cooking grate
08 HP 8600 dual quad core/nvidia 5600 w sdi os- RH2.6 linux 16GB ram.
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derwud
Pasadena, CA
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Joined: 08/10/2003
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Batteries have come a long way, but you are right if you want to run them all-out they will not last that long and at 35K, that is a big tank of gas!
I would bet that the warranty is only for Manufactures defects and runnng them hard and charging them fast would not be covered!
I do see Electric Sand cars in the near future, but I think this is premature and is domed to fail based on abuse by owners.. Since most can't make it a season without breaking their current 100k sand cars...
2005 Nissan Titan CC SE 4x4, 2006 Weekend Warrior FS2300
2 Quads, 2 Motorcycle and a '06 Rhino
1 Patient Wife, 1 Crazy child, 1 sweet baby.
RIP Bubba and Toby, we love you.
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