Hi Larry ... Hey, some time run up to Starved Rock State Park ... it along with several other state parks hold ALL handicapped spots open for folks with a P2A disability card and/or disabled vets. You can almost always get a disabled spot there.
The handicapped spots are held open until just after dark ...they then allow other campers to occupy them ... but they have to vacate the spots by 10 the next morning ... so the spots will be open for disabled vets or P2A disability holders.
Other state parks allow anybody with a sore knee to occupy the spots ... so it's kind of hit or miss.
Glad you are enjoying the post ... and you are the reason I avoid occupying the spots.
I want to make sure you will always have a spot to go camping!
No, this is not the same thing as a handicapped parking tag (which almost anyone can get with a hangnail.)
A P2A disability card is a state certified identity card ... and the P2A rating is the most profound physical disability rating, allowing access to many State services and other benefits. There are several other ratings, which don't carrying the same weight.
Interestingly enough, if you google Illinois P2A, you'll find that most of the hits are information about handicapped hunting and the lengths the state goes to make sure profoundly physically disabled hunter can enjoy the sport.
I_rv2 wrote: Hi Larry ... Hey, some time run up to Starved Rock State Park ... it along with several other state parks hold ALL handicapped spots open for folks with a P2A disability card and/or disabled vets. You can almost always get a disabled spot there.
The handicapped spots are held open until just after dark ...they then allow other campers to occupy them ... but they have to vacate the spots by 10 the next morning ... so the spots will be open for disabled vets or P2A disability holders.
Other state parks allow anybody with a sore knee to occupy the spots ... so it's kind of hit or miss.
Glad you are enjoying the post ... and you are the reason I avoid occupying the spots.
I want to make sure you will always have a spot to go camping!
Thanks for your service. See you out camping!
I_rv2 Thanks a lot. Starved Rock is on my list for this summer, and there is a potter up there, just across the bridge, I have been wanting to visit.
Do you know if there are any trails that are wheelchair accessible? I was there 40 years ago and recall that there were steps everywhere.
There is not too much that stops me from enjoying life, certainly not a wheelchair. When I bought the old abandoned train depot that houses my business 3 1/2 years ago lots of folks thought I had lost it, including my kids, but its now a reality and I get to play in the mud all I want now. (and its paying for the MH)
I'm not at all "politically correct" and have embarrassed my dear wife more than once, but nothing stands in my way once I set out on a path. Disability is reality and a matter of function - handicap is a state of mind - one I refuse to give into.
Larry
Larry and Debbie Kruzan
We never turn a corner without wondering in amazement at God's creation!
Obviously hiking isn't one of my strong points ... and to "climb the rock" involves steps ... as do most of the trails around the lodge that go down to the river ... but on the far east side of the park, there is one trail that goes back into Illinois Canyon that is fairly level and wide enough for a chair, until you hit a creek. We also like to hang out away from the crowd in the Lone Point Shelter area.
The campground is fairly large ... with two paved loops ... plenty of room to roll (after you clear the speed bumps!)
Except for the big weekends (memorial day, 4th july, labor day, Columbia Day and a thing called the Burgoo Festival), you'll have no problem getting a handicapped spot. And even on the big weekends, there's usually a few hc spots open till just after dark. And of course, weekdays are wide open.
Georgia doesn't issue those rating cards. They do have qualifiers for tags, though. They are issued only for mobility issues, and can be either temporary or permanent, so there's no need to sub-class use of the tags after that.
People keep saying things to this effect - that you could get a tag for a hangnail or a hearing problem and such. I ask because this came up on another thread. All states are required to recognize tags from other states. That's federal law. But there's nothing that says how the states issue their permits. Some states don't issue anything but the tag itself. (I see that as a good thing, because the State refuses to play I'm Worse Off Than You, or vice versa. It's a car tag, it's about mobility, so that's it.)
But ARE there actually any states issuing tags for non-mobility issues?
* This post was
edited 05/16/08 12:20pm by Serena *
A guy in our church who is blind has a placard to hang on a mirror of a car so that he can be parked in handicap spots. He does have a disability, granted, but why does he need a parking spot designed for folks in wheelchairs?
Some Doctor had to sign for him to get it - so is the problem the doc, the patient, or the general entitlement mentality that is so prevalent today. I get so tired of hearing "I deserve...." followed by some lame excuse. I have my moments too but I really do need the wide spots just to get out of my van - not because I deserve it, or I'm a really nice guy. Frankly I don't want to use one but I don't have the choice.
larry_kruzan wrote: A guy in our church who is blind has a placard to hang on a mirror of a car so that he can be parked in handicap spots. He does have a disability, granted, but why does he need a parking spot designed for folks in wheelchairs?
Some Doctor had to sign for him to get it - so is the problem the doc, the patient, or the general entitlement mentality that is so prevalent today. I get so tired of hearing "I deserve...." followed by some lame excuse. I have my moments too but I really do need the wide spots just to get out of my van - not because I deserve it, or I'm a really nice guy. Frankly I don't want to use one but I don't have the choice.
Larry
You are kidding, correct? The handicap spaces aren't "wheelchair" spaces. They are spaces designed for the disabled be it blind, wheelchair, scooter, heart condition, etc. And if a blind person doesn't deserve a special space closest to the building that makes their visit a little easier, I wonder what your requiements and/or definitions are for one to be handicapped enough to use the space and to make you happy. (?)
And Frankly, if all that you need is a wide space to exit your van, then why would you use the handicap space rather than park way in the back where there are less cars and you could then use two regular spaces and have plenty of room? Because you deserve to use the space you are entitled to, just like others with many other types of disabilities, not just the wheelchair bound.
See what I'm saying, Larry? The issue here isn't really the use of the space. It's the audacity of one to judge a handicapped individual and it even gets worse when the disabled begin to fight against each other on who is more disabled. Ridiculous!
Now church-going fellows like you and me should know better than to judge our fellow human beings, shouldn't we Larry?
Could be it's in order to ask your pastor to designate more spaces for the disabled. (?)
Back to your original response......
The problem isn't the doctor that issued a placard to a blind man, it's the DMV that gave him his drivers license!!
(And before you get upset, I am blind in my right-eye and my daughter is blind as well and we transport her in a Dodge van with a side ramp).
* This post was
edited 05/16/08 03:44pm by javaseuf *
Steve
2007 Springdale 291RKL
2003 F150 King Ranch
2001 Dodge Van w/Wheelchair Ramp
1991 Palomino Mustang PUP
Eureka Timberline Tent
Yamaha IF2400isc
Yamaha EF3000iSEBC "Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It"
Sorry to disappoint you but the reason those spaces are wide is so that folks like me can get our wheelchairs out of the van. If you think that a person in a wheelchair lift equipped vehicle can exit a van in a normal size space you need to show me how. I need almost 8 feet on the side to get out. Most of the time folks that may have a disability park in those forcing me to park way out in the south forty just to have enough room to get out. Have you ever pushed a wheelchair from the back of the lot? By the time I get to the store I've lost all track of why I came.
Sorry about your daughter and your challenge but blindness is not a mobility disability, I suffer from optic neuritis and lose my sight from time to time, it is a pain and a real problem but it does not require a wide parking space. He could park in any of the normal width spots and exit his vehicle - I cannot. Mobility is the issue, not disability.
When we lived in Texas there were spots designated for lift equipped vans and that seemed to work most of the time.
I not arguing that one is more disabled, rather I am arguing for a reasoned approach to determining who should be issued a handicap plate or placard, in Illinois the rules are that it is for people who have mobility disabilities - that is all. If you have a bum arm you are not supposed to get the plate, not needed - if you have a colostomy bag it is not a mobility issue, you don't get the plate and so on, you can get to the store without mechanical assistance. The issue is parking and access.
I'm Not judging, that is the law decided by lawmakers and voted on by the same. Upheld by the state supreme court.
larry_kruzan wrote: Sorry to disappoint you but the reason those spaces are wide is so that folks like me can get our wheelchairs out of the van. If you think that a person in a wheelchair lift equipped vehicle can exit a van in a normal size space you need to show me how. I need almost 8 feet on the side to get out. Most of the time folks that may have a disability park in those forcing me to park way out in the south forty just to have enough room to get out. Have you ever pushed a wheelchair from the back of the lot? By the time I get to the store I've lost all track of why I came.
Sorry about your daughter and your challenge but blindness is not a mobility disability, I suffer from optic neuritis and lose my sight from time to time, it is a pain and a real problem but it does not require a wide parking space. He could park in any of the normal width spots and exit his vehicle - I cannot. Mobility is the issue, not disability.
When we lived in Texas there were spots designated for lift equipped vans and that seemed to work most of the time.
I not arguing that one is more disabled, rather I am arguing for a reasoned approach to determining who should be issued a handicap plate or placard, in Illinois the rules are that it is for people who have mobility disabilities - that is all. If you have a bum arm you are not supposed to get the plate, not needed - if you have a colostomy bag it is not a mobility issue, you don't get the plate and so on, you can get to the store without mechanical assistance. The issue is parking and access.
I'm Not judging, that is the law decided by lawmakers and voted on by the same. Upheld by the state supreme court.
Just so you don't think I am skirting the handicap space with my daughter's issue, her blindness is the least of her issues. She is 19 years old and has never walked or talked so her mobility issue is the factor we use when selecting a parking space. Also, there are spaces designated for vans and ones that are normal width spaces for the disabled. I do agree that those that are disabled without the need for the wide space should use an alternate handicap space but it's kind of first come, first served. I just don't make it a habit to find out what that person's disability is so I can justify their use of the space or pass judgement.
So, Larry, no dissapomitment here. I know exactally what those spaces are for and have pushed a wheelchair bound person very far in a parking lot and designed and built handicap accessable vehicles so I know space requirements.
And sorry but your statement about you not passing judgement is simply not true. That was proven when you clicked on the "Post Message" icon and made comments about the doctor and people's right to even have a placard. Remember, YOU questioned the validity of the blind person's right to even have a placard.
I think the issue is the difference in opinion and who YOU think is disabled and to what extent and whether or not that determined (by you) disability deserves a placard/handicap space or not. If that is not passing judgement, I can't imagine what is.
Steve, I sure wish you were near so I could have you help with the MH access problem I have. From your profile it sounds like you sure would understand what is needed. So let me say how much I respect what you do and have done for all of us.
I figured there was more to the story about your daughter, didn't mean to pry. As for pushing a wheelchair - I figured that too but let me say with some authority, that the difference between standing and pushing vs. sitting in the chair and propelling yourself is incredible - so, so much harder and taxing - the geometry on those things is just all wrong. (personal opinion)
Now on to judging - I confess to discriminating - every morning I discriminate between black or blue socks, I own both and enjoy both colors but I must evaluate how each color would look with rest of my attire and finally discriminate against one color in favor of another. That is one type of judgment, a decision based on a personal, or moral choice.
If I see a person robbing a bank I do not need to consider their social standing, housing or even if they are a nice person. They are violating the law and I call the cops fast. This is not judgment of the person, it is observation and analysis of their action and reaction taken by me based on that analysis. The court will make final judgment based on law.
I'm not always the sharpest pencil in the box but language is an exact science even though it is so poorly practiced today. I have cited IL law and can give you case law to back it up, CA law may be different, so much is out there.
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