clokman wrote: Well what I meant to reference was a hitch weight of 4-500 with the WD, which would mean a listed hitch weight of 6-700. I may be all wrong about that, but dont you figure some (20-30%) of the hitch wt going back to the trailer axles with WD? Of course the overall weight is still there, its just not all counting against the "cargo" capacity of the truck, but rather against the GCCW. Please correct me if I have this wrong.
kevin
WD does not lessen Tongue weight, only redistributes it.
05 Super Duty XLT CC 5.4/3.73 5 sp auto Torqshift
06 Keystone Hornet 29 RLS/(The"Cracker Cabana")
Reese HP Dual Cam
fill the tank with gas, load the family in the truck, and head to the nearest scale. You might be surprised... Use the scale numbers to make your trailer decision.
melackey73 wrote: fill the tank with gas, load the family in the truck, and head to the nearest scale. You might be surprised... Use the scale numbers to make your trailer decision.
Thanks melackey, I have decided to do just that this week before anything else.
Now just to help me understand (I am going to use round numbers): Lets say the loaded truck w/ no TT weighs 6200#. If CVWR is 6900# then can I safely hook up with to a 700 hitch load? Keeping on this line, I would now be a max GVWR and would my next restriction be GCWR? That number is 13,500, so in this example I would be allowed 13500# less 6900# for a trailer weight of 6600#.
I know that this figures everything at MAX and would not be a great idea, I only use these numbers to let you guys tell me if I am doing the math right.
It's good you're recognizing that MAX is "not a great idea". (IMO)
Just for kicks and grins... if you haven't bought the trailer yet, is there any chance you know somebody with a trailer/cargo that weighs in at about 6,000 pounds?
It would be fun for you (or at least it's my idea of a good time! LOL) to borrow something for about an hour... take it down some highway speeds and make sure you've got a good hill or two thrown into the experience to give you an idea of what MAX feels like.
I own a 7,000 pound trailer and pull it with a Nav (rated to pull 8,000 or so)... and I'm glad I'm not maxed.
You won't know how it feels 'till you get a chance to try it.
melackey73 wrote: fill the tank with gas, load the family in the truck, and head to the nearest scale. You might be surprised... Use the scale numbers to make your trailer decision.
Thanks melackey, I have decided to do just that this week before anything else.
Now just to help me understand (I am going to use round numbers): Lets say the loaded truck w/ no TT weighs 6200#. If CVWR is 6900# then can I safely hook up with to a 700 hitch load? Keeping on this line, I would now be a max GVWR and would my next restriction be GCWR? That number is 13,500, so in this example I would be allowed 13500# less 6900# for a trailer weight of 6600#.
I know that this figures everything at MAX and would not be a great idea, I only use these numbers to let you guys tell me if I am doing the math right.
You're thinking in the right direction. However, you're forgetting the weight that you first used starting off this post. Your cargo capacity is only 1255 lbs. Once you hook the trailer on (even with a wd hitch), camping equipment, Mama and her stuff, you're gonna be way over that 1255 lbs. There is just no way of getting around this number. Will your Tundra pull the max weight...sure it will....BUT, and there's always a BUT isn't there? But your truck sure won't be happy, and much like when Mama's not happy, you won't be happy either.
From my personal experience of towing a 5400 lb trailer (800 lbs tongue weight- it was a rear kitchen) with my 00 Tundra (yes, 40 less hp/torque) and with this amount of weight, any 5% to 6% grade of over 5 miles and I would be down in 1st gear with the trans temp aproching 230 degrees. Not good! However, I pulled that trailer all over the western US and even to Calgary and the only problem I had was with the Reese dual cam hitch. Got so tired of hearing that engine screaming and nursing the trans to keep it from overheating (I had the tow package with trans cooler too), that on the last trip I said "that's it"...something has to give.
Since I was under all my weights (barely) I decided to increase hp/torque. I did that by adding a TRD supercharger, tuned long-tubed headers (Jet-Hot coated inside and out), and a 3" TRD dual exhaust. My hp/torque jumped to just about what the new 5.7l engines have. With the extra hp/torque, I could then pull that 5400 lbs up those 6% grades in 3rd....however, the trans was still the weak point and still had to be very careful about overheating it. Then instead of hearing the engine scream, now the supercharger whine drowned everything else out. That part was still uncomfortable.
My point, you ask? Well, I HIGHLY recommend that if you want to keep your Tundra, you really need to look at a TT with a "GVWR" of not more than 7800 lbs with a "UVW" weight close to 4500 lbs. Once loaded the "wet" weight will be closer to 6000 lbs and you sure don't want to go anywhere pass that figure or your just gonna be very unhappy.
Hope this helps
Ron
Ron & Sandie
'08 Safari Simba SBD35
86 Toy 4x4 P/U for Toad.
Tow Bar: Sterling
Brakes: Unified
Toys:
Yamaha 660R Raptor (mine)
Honda 350ES Rancher (hers)
64 Fairlane w/351c - 4sp
Both Fed CS Retirees
Hobbies:
DW's: Quilting
Mine: DW
Thank you all so much. Whoever would have thought that a truck factory equipped and rated to tow 7800 pounds would really be limited to around 6000. The things they dont tell you!! I may be stretching things with a 4800 UVW Passport, which is the 3rd choice.
The "Tow Rating", especially for 1/2 ton pickup, is grossly overrated. Yes, they WILL pull that weight, but they conveniently forgo informing you of the UVW, except in very small print at the bottom of the advertisement or even in the manuals. "Tow Ratings" are design to attract potential customers, and in my opinion, are much like the old tobacco ads where they touted the "taste" and "satisfaction" but left out the part about cancer and heart disease except in the very fine print.
The new Tundra touts a whopping 10,800 lbs tow rating, but Toyota fails to tell you that all but the stripped down regular cab 4x2 will only hold 1500 lbs (+- a couple hundred). To me, that's false advertisement by omission. A 10,800 lb travel trailer will have a tongue weight of about 1080 lbs to 1620 lbs.... and a 5th wheel is even worse with pin weights of over 2000 lbs.
You are being very smart in looking at all weights associated with your truck. It has been my experience that 1/2 ton (and even some 3/4 ton) pickups will max out their UVW and GVWR long before the tow rating and GCVWR.
Something else you might want to keep in mind is that some trailer mfg's, don't always include ALL the items installed on the trailer in the "dry weight". Many don't include such things as AC, furnace, microwave, stove, refrigerator, awning, spare tire, battery(s), propane tanks, televisions, radios.... The advertised dry weight really needs to be scrutinize and if possible have the trailer weighed before you purchase.
Do some searches on these subjects, you'll find all kinds of info.
Well here is an update. My dealer is now telling me that I can still pull this trailer, with the use of air bags and the WD. I am getting this from the manager at a very large dealership in a very large city. I made him repeat this twice and had my wife witness because I did not believe him:
His exact words were "Air bags remove hitch weight".
Please tell me that I am right in saying that he is wrong. And please answer another question for me. It seems that in doing these weight calculations that we are adding the hitch weight twice, once when calculating payload and again when adding the overall trailer weight. For example (not the above referenced TT), if the TT weighs 5900# with a hitch weight of 900# then 900# is added to truck payload when hooked up. Wouldn't the TT weight then effectivley become 5000# because you have removed 900 from the TT axles and place them "in the truck". You are not losing the 900 pounds and it still counts in the GVWR and CGWR but why would you still figure trailer weight at the full 5900#?
Because you still have to consider all of that weight for dragging it up hills... and more importantly, braking coming down. All of that weight is still behind you.
Sure seems that dealer will say anything to get you closed, huh?
Adding something to the truck isn't going to take away weight from the trailer.
I don't know much about "air bags".. but if they are the suspension thing similar to what my Navigator has (where they pump themselves up to level the vehicle when weight is added)... and even if the suspension is now beefed up to handle the weight, it seems to me you still have braking and pulling issues.
The hitch weight issue is just one facet of the entire problem.
So whattaya going to do? Start truck shopping? Or look for a lighter trailer?
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