I think... and this will surprise Doug ... but I think that the point about less overall use of pesticides on and around the animal is a valid one. If you have to use something, and your animals don't react badly to it, I think it is probably less damaging overall to use something that keeps the beasties off of them, than to bomb and spray the house and yard, constantly douse their bedding with poison, and then repeatedly douse the animal with more poison.
I don't use any of it at this point, since I haven't seen a flea on my dogs or cats in years... but if I did feel like there was a problem and whatever non-toxic alternatives I have weren't getting the job done, I'd use frontline again before I'd go back to the "old stuff."
Doug, what kind of a "test application" could be tried when using a new product on an animal? I know if you buy something like hair dye, you're supposed to test a little bit on your arm a day before you actually use it. Could some sort of a protocol be developed to give an indication of which animals aren't going to react well, without the full exposure that's going to cause a more severe reaction?
susan
What I want to know is, when are they going to start selling Comfort Zone for HUMANS????? 'Cause some days...
agteacher wrote: What I have done is put a flea collar on her
I assume that you are aware that the flea collar contains and releases an insecticide onto the animal.
I question the effectiveness of "natural" diets. Wolves and coyotes both get severe flea and tick infestations so much so that according to biologists that is one reason they change dens so often.
There are those who are opposed to anything unnatural for their pets. I am old enough to remember the days before there were any effective flea or tick medications and vets did horses and cows not dogs and cats. I also remember how much many of them suffered and how early they died.
Of course pets, like people, live much longer now thanks in part to better medications and diets. Certainly any animal can have a bad reaction to any medication just like humans do but I for one do not want to go back to the "good old days" before the advances in pet medications.
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Code2High wrote: I had an interesting experience on this last road trip... We went to Oklahoma and were out in the sticks, you might say, spending time in a location that is just loaded with ticks. I pulled Lord knows how many off of me, mostly before they bit... and as an interesting aside, if you put them in a bottle of Perrier water they die, while in a regular water bottle they'll walk around under water for hours... anyway only one got attached so I'm hopefull I'll survive.
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Sticks huh? Well I never!!
OK y'all.... you have to know that Susan and her two dogs were at our place last Monday. LOL
Danged ticks musta been California ticks otherwise they wouldn't have preferred Perrier over the other bottled water. I think you brought them WITH you! LOL
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Back on topic. I am sorry to read about the adverse reaction(s) of your pets.... what a horrible thing to happen! I hope they are OK.
I use Frontline now, I used to use BioSpot... and everyone on here gave me a VERY hard time about the BioSpot, saying it was awful, terrible, nasty stuff. I gave in last year and switched to Frontline. The facts are that neither brand of flea/tick treatment has ever caused our dogs (& cats) a problem. I will admit, as always, that I split one tube of the appropriate type (weight range) between all three of our dogs and do the same with the cats. I apply it every 40 to 45 days in the spring through fall without a problem. I also make certain I don't apply it right before or shortly after heartworm preventative or vaccinations... which I also split up. I think sometimes the reactions are from too many chemicals in their bodies at one time... and the cannot process it, overload if you will. No scientific studies to back that opinion, just a lot of reading up on various pet forums about the topic.
The owners of the animals adversely affected are not to blame... After all, we trust the manufacturers and our vets to help guide us, right? The sad part is some animals are more sensitive to many of the chemicals in every day life, and if they are applying them along with other medications or vaccinations, the combination can be more risky.
Cat
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agteacher wrote: What I have done is put a flea collar on her
I assume that you are aware that the flea collar contains and releases an insecticide onto the animal.
I question the effectiveness of "natural" diets. Wolves and coyotes both get severe flea and tick infestations so much so that according to biologists that is one reason they change dens so often.
There are those who are opposed to anything unnatural for their pets. I am old enough to remember the days before there were any effective flea or tick medications and vets did horses and cows not dogs and cats. I also remember how much many of them suffered and how early they died.
Of course pets, like people, live much longer now thanks in part to better medications and diets. Certainly any animal can have a bad reaction to any medication just like humans do but I for one do not want to go back to the "good old days" before the advances in pet medications.
Then again, wolves and coyotes don't live in homes that are regularly vacuumed and cleaned, where one flea can be swept up before before it is allowed to reproduce. Wolves aren't groomed and flea-combed on a regular basis either. Coyotes aren't given baths, that I know of. And dogs in the old days ate Purina Dog Chow and we considered that really good dog food.
Most of the dogs I know that eat raw, homecooked or grain-free commercial diets, get lots of vigorous exercise, and regular grooming don't use topical pesticides and they don't need them. (If someone lives in an area where ticks are abundant, then I think the risk from tick-borne illness is worth seriously considering use of pesticides.)
But a VIBRANT healthy dog is going to always be the best defense against fleas and ticks.
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OH, NO...they were NOT California ticks! First off, I'd never seen ticks that small. We just don't grow'em like that in CA. Secondly, the Perrier kilt them. It was the regular (Sam's club) water that my local friend drinks that they were able to take up residence in. Cali ticks would've preferred the Perrier, though the fact that you can't get anything but plain Perrier back there might annoy them. I'm happy to be able to find it at all, but really the lime is so much tastier.
And BTW, your house isn't what I was referring to, but I thought you liked living in the sticks? Its always been an ambition of mine. One of these days I'll have to take you to that spot in the sticks, you can meet Tig's tall friend and hang out with my favorite oak tree. But lets do that in the fall when the wildlife is a little less active?
Anyway, the point stands. Ticks on me, no ticks on dogs. Fpresto, if you've got another thee-roy, I'd love to hear it. My dogs live in Sunny So Cal where we have rats and squirrels and rabbits and coyotes in the neighborhood, so I know it isn't flea free. Never see one on them, haven't in a couple years. Hally used to go near brush and come home with ticks on her head, now she doesn't.
Well, here in rural Oklahoma (not the sticks Susan) and many surrounding states we do have a lot of ticks to go along with the fleas. The little tiny ones are called "seed ticks" just for the record, actually they are babies and will grow larger as the days heat up.
Yes, ticks & fleas are a problem in many parts of the country. At our house it doesn't help any that we have 30 to 40 head of cattle & a few llamas grazing on adjoining acres.
Our pets are fed top quality grain free food, they are in good condition, well groomed, but they are still prone to pick up fleas & ticks due to sheer number of them you find where we live & camp. I'll keep putting 1/3 of tube of topical treatment on them every 40 to 45 days during flea/tick season. That way I don't have to fight an infestation in our home or travel trailer. There are few things worse than a house infested with fleas!
Code2High wrote: Doug, what kind of a "test application" could be tried when using a new product on an animal? I know if you buy something like hair dye, you're supposed to test a little bit on your arm a day before you actually use it. Could some sort of a protocol be developed to give an indication of which animals aren't going to react well, without the full exposure that's going to cause a more severe reaction?
I have not heard or read about any protocol, but if I had a dog or cat that demonstrated sensitivities to food, vaccinations, medications, shampoos, topical treatments, I think I'd try a single drop from the tube first. If no reaction within a few days then do the rest.
One other thought:
Many of the reactions I have heard of are because of ingestion of the topical product. I've heard of some vets not prescribing Advantix to dogs when the household has cats due to the possibility of grooming behavior and ingestion of the product. Is there any possibility that the systemic reactions are due to one dog licking the other or each dog licking the product off their own neck or back? The neurological sign I would associate with ingestion.
Cat I think if that's what it takes and you're able to minimize it, that's a good plan. I'm certainly not advocating letting them run around covered in those nasty ticks! I'm just finding my experience with the girls kind of interesting. Of course, you could try BARF on your lot and see if anything changes. Just as an experiment, I promise they'd enjoy it. Then you could work on Walter.......
One day you'll have to 'splain me the difference between "rural" and "sticks."
Doug that sounds like a good plan and something worth considering...
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