donn0128 wrote: Hold up here. ..then 18,000 minus 4,000 gives you a 14,000 pound weight before you add anything to it. Which means that all our discussions to this point are moot as you are so far beyond a 2500's capabilities it isn't even funny any longer.
I can't follow the math.
dry 10,900#, how did you get to 14K#?
by way of example, my current rig is 8080# dry with a GVWR of 11,500# When I loaded it up I get to 8080# +2000# of stuff = 10,000# the GVWR does not enter into the actual weight.
If I end up over 6,000# on my rear axle or over 13,100# towed weight I re-think this all from scratch.
Dave Lindemulder
Tammy, Mark & Kirsten
04 Dodge 2500 4x4 SLT QC/SB
HO-CTD/48RE - Graphite: Raptor SS nerfs, Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Trans pan, PML Diff cover, Firestone Airbags
09 Heartland Cyclone 3210
OK, Look at it this way, If the trailer has a GVWR of 18,000, minus 2000 for toys, minus 2000 for other stuff. That leaves 14,000 as a realistic weight. Something is wrong in either the manufacturers numbers or the numbers you are giving us.
I believe donn0128 is attempting to address that well-known anomoly used by RV manufacturers to state a dry/unloaded weight that is simply the weight of the first prototype unit taken across the scales at the factory on the way to the parking lot, you know, the weight without propane tanks (much less full ones) also without batteries and absolutely no options such as gel-coat sides (about 13lbs per linear foot) awnings, A/C's, bigger fridge than the 6 cu.ft. standard, no microwave, TV or entertainment system, generator, washer/dryer, solid surface counter-tops etc., etc.. They even leave out the roof access ladder in original spec'ing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some manufacturer's drill holes in the things to get a lighter certification via the ones they submit to DMV's for weight certifications. You can and should demand a scale weight for the actual rig with option package you are ordering be provided prior to delivery. Your dealer should be able to provide you with the scaled weight of a comparable unit he's sold to someone else easily enough, if he's properly motivated.
Today is just the tomorrow you worried about yesterday!
'04' International 4400 LoPro 310Hp/950FtLbs 10Spd Harley/RV Toter
'05' Mobile Suites 38RL3
'01' Harley Ultra in the bike barn.
The reason the 19k caught your friend's eye is that most of us tow at or near GW and that is too much weight for most duallys. If you are at your truck's GW with 1400 PW, add 1000# for the toy hauler and you'll be that much more over. Might as well bite the bullet and get the correct truck for your TH now...you will eventually anyhow, no matter how much you try to convince yourself what you have will work.
Blaster Man wrote: The reason the 19k caught your friend's eye is that most of us tow at or near GW
That's what I thought too. Since I won't tow near GW I will be different in that respect.
I don't know about "all manufacturers", but Jayco was dead on with their dry weight and actually played a backwards game on their gross. My rig was spec'd in the brochure at 10,000# gross and before I chose it I spoke to a the factory about that spec. I was told that they had begun to lower the gross because they were concerned that people would decide they couldn't tow the gross and wouldn't buy it - so they were de-rating their gross weights. I told them that I would not buy a FW that was spec'd to equip so CLOSE to it's actual gross rating. I got them to re-sticker my unit before they shipped it to me and re-rate it from 10,000# to 11,500# (yes, they re-stickered it I saw the old and the new stickers when I picked it up)
Back to this situation... Just curious -- why is it OK to carry 6,000# on the drive axle of a dually but not OK on a SRW? The only difference between a SRW and dually is the tires - on my truck I've got the same axle and same brakes. So... for discussion here - if I put a pair of 4000# tires on that axle (8000# total) what am I lacking compared to the dually? Just curious and searching for facts.
you are going to lose you house, wife and kids! OOOOO the law suits!!! NJDOT is going to impound your rig. Your truck and trailer will burst in to flames. AND Think of the baby seals you are gonna kill!
Ok now that I have told you what 'they' will say.
my thoughts, make sure your tires are up the job then tow it. If its to much you'll know it.
davelinde wrote: Back to this situation... Just curious -- why is it OK to carry 6,000# on the drive axle of a dually but not OK on a SRW? The only difference between a SRW and dually is the tires - on my truck I've got the same axle and same brakes. So... for discussion here - if I put a pair of 4000# tires on that axle (8000# total) what am I lacking compared to the dually? Just curious and searching for facts.
You are correct on the TIRES. Don't forget to upgrade the WHEELS too!
You forgot the SPRINGS. Dually springs are heavier duty (higher spring rate) than single rear wheel springs. Often there are also more springs in the pack, with additinal overload springs, as well as a rear sway bar. Some srw trucks will also have the sway bar and overload springs, though the overload springs may not be the same as those on the dually.
Yes, often times, though certainly not always, and not untill more recently, the rear axles and brakes can be the same between srw and drw one-ton trucks, and even some 3/4-tons. Not sure on your particular truck, as by now I've forgotten what kind of truck you have.
Be careful in Assuming you "have the same axle" as the drw truck, on your srw...
My F350 srw uses the same model and size axle (Visteon 10.25") as the drw version of the same year F350 as mine, however, and this information comes direct from the Visteon engineering department to me, the drw version of my axle has thicker axle tubes, which give it a 2000-lb higher weight rating (6250 lbs -vs- 8250 lbs).
The difference in axle tube thickness cannot be seen from the outside, as both use the same outside diamter tubes. The only way I would have found this out myself would have been to completely disassemble both types of axle side by side and measure the thickness of the tubes, which is not so easy since the axle ends are spindled and the tube edges are not seen even from inside the axle.
The drw axle is also 2" longer on each side, to help clearance the inner tires with the springs. That is the only outside dimension that can be taken to discern the difference between the two axles in question. Brakes, hardware and hubs are the same. The axleshafts are also longer, due to the longer axle tubes.
That said, the '99-'04 F350 srw's and drw's do both use the same Visteon 10.50" axle tube thickness, on those drw's equipped with the Visteon axle. Many of the drw's (those with the diesel engine mostly) use the Dana 80 axle though, which is stronger than the Visteon (9750 lbs -vs- 11,000 lbs).
As with any truck modification to suit a different purpose... THOROUGHLY RESEARCH it using RELIABLE sources, before ASSUMING everything will be OK. A call to the engineering department of the axle manufacturer for your truck and the drw truck in question may provide you with the information you need, or it may not, depends on how helpful they want to be. Visteon was very helpful to me and answered my questions thoroughly.
* This post was
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The above-posted information about axles, springs, etc and modification thereof, is not a condonement to modify a 3/4-ton truck to the job of a one-ton drw, or larger, truck.
I have forgotten all the trailer weights involved in this discussion. Enough people here (3 pages worth of discussion about it so far) have advised that "you need a bigger truck", for me to be willing to go along with that suggestion. Either that or a smaller trailer.
* This post was
edited 05/16/08 12:23pm by SoCalDesertRider *
How many times does the poor guy have to tell you people he will not be towing the trailer at the 19k lb GVWR?
If he is rated for 13,100 and hes is going to tow at less than that,whats the problem?
Even if you call the pin weight on 13,000 at 25% thats only 3250lbs. With the hitch in the bed,and bigger tires I'm only at 3200lbs for rear axle weight. I'd be willing to bet his truck has a very similar axle weight. Add the pin weight to the rear axle weight and he is right at the RAWR of 6400lbs thats set by Dodge.
Once again,the AAM axle in his truck is rated my AAM at almost 2x that weight. So he is a LONG way from overloading the axle.
If it were me,I'd get some higher rated tires and go enjoy the new fiver.
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