JeffPritchard wrote: kylekai,
Oh, and by the way, you misspelled the name of our fair city in your profile. Sandy Eggo has two g's in it.
Well, OK, except I tend to think of my ego that's all sandy. ;-)
BTW, I'm a software engineer also (self employed). Maybe I should have been a hardware engineer. Then maybe I'd be more apt to do more TC mods myself.
Most of the serious expedition vehicles use them....the guy that built my rig considered it but decided against it due to time constraints. I would mind adding one at some point....but I have a big list of things I want to do first.
A three-point mounting system is basically where you have the front of the bed mounted to the frame rails in a normal fashion (or they can also employ some sort of fancy shock absorbing bushing mount like Global Xpedition uses) and then a single pivoting mount in the center at the rear. That way the rear can pivot (tilt side to side) independantly of the chassis twist.
I guess I don't see what keeps the camper's own mass from making it twist just as much as the frame of the truck does. Seems like there is a trade-off here. On the one hand, having it well bolted to the frame of the truck adds the stability of the truck frame to the wimpy frame of the TC to reduce twisting...while at the same time applying any and all frame twist directly to the TC. Not sure which twisting is worse.
Anyway, thanks for explaining what it is.
cheers,
jp
If I understand what you are saying...naming that a swing one way, and then a swing the other way might put a lot of forces into the camper...you might be right, but I doubt it is much 'twist'. The guy I bought my camper from told me he saw first hand where load shifts caused people trouble with 3-point mounts....like maybe the cabin swinging so hard to the side that is caused the rig to slide or tip. I'm not sure if he was just trying to cover for the lack of 3-point system when I was enquiring, or if truly he made an educated decision that proved out. I htink he skipped it due to time and effort. But I just figure that at twisting/rocking 4WD road type driving that a 3-point system would reduce camper structural failure. I have seen pictures of 4WD Class C's with rumpled side panels due to this motion and the stiffer the frame, the worse the traction ends up being. Ever see a rig doing the teeter-totter thing? I think the main drawback to them would be a lack of highway speed handling not on offroad capability. That is the real tradeoff. I have the impression that most older MAN and Unimog etc chassis are not exactly pleasant to drive at interstate speeds. I love driving mine on the highway but it's probably not that great on serious off-road situations due to lack of travel and twist on the camper.....I have very little travel. Looking forward to hitting some rougher terrain this summer if possible.
2006 LanceMax 1191 - loaded and well-used
2005 C4500/Kodiak 4x4, GVWR 17,500
Now parked: 2001 S&S 8.5SC on 1997 GMC K2500 (235K miles)
kylekai wrote: After owning several kinds of RVs, including a popup trailer camper, a small Class C, and for the last two years, a F250 with a Northstart 650 popup TC. I like the TC best because of various reasons, but mostly because I can travel to and camp in the boondocks. I don't push my truck to the off-road limits, but I do occasionally have need for low range on some of the roads I travel.
I'm planning my next truck and camper purchase, slated to happen late this year or early next year. But I can't seem to find what I want. While the Northstar is a capable camper, it could use improvement for off-road use.
After looking at many camper models, and reading many posts here and elsewhere, it appears that the only true off-road TC is the Four-Wheel Camper (or it's cousin the All Terrain Camper). But if I want, for example, an Outfitter, the usual modifications mentioned in numerous posts here have to be applied: double-latch all cabinets, strengthen various components, and so on.
And then there is attaching the TC to the truck. There's the HappiJak, which after awhile pulls up the ends of the rear bumper, or worse, breaks (mine have). Other attachments lower the ground clearance, or otherwise again do not work as well as could for off-road use. Bolting a TC to the truck seems to be the ultimate attachment method to date that I've seen.
What I want is a factory-modified version of an existing truck camper. While car manufactures produce different models of vehicles for their customers, I don't see that for truck campers. The one model fits all concept does not work. I would like to see (and purchase) an Outfitter FX4 or Northstar TRD, for example. These modified campers would come from the factor already fitted for more off-road use than the existing models. Maybe the cabinets would be double-latched, stronger welds where needed, and other modifications. And don't forget the truck to camper attachment. Virtually every camper manufacture seems to rely on the same old technology, the same one-size-fits-all concept. How about a HappiJak Z71, a heavy duty model modified for off-road use?
Truck camper manufactures, are you listening? Surely I'm not the only person who would like what I'm requesting. Bring us a model that can really be used off-road, attachments and all. Not one that we have to spend money and weeks modifying components that should have been modified at the factory. My next truck will probably be a Ford F350 FX4. Can I get an Outfitter TRD to go with it?
kylekai,
I hear what you're saying and asking for (and I personally relate to the same thing). But I have to agree with a number of others in the thread that the market for what you desire is very small indeed.
I would have loved to have purchased an Earthroamer to cover this base, but I simply couldn't afford it. And as much as I really like what some folks have done in terms of coming up with flatbed and utility body truck/TC rig set-ups, I just didn't have the time (or extra cash) to go down that road. I instead chose to go with a Dodge Power Wagon and Outfitter Apex 8 pop-up. I went with Outfitter, as they do design their campers for off-road use (although within reason), and will in fact substantially customize and modify their basic designs (and if I may be so bold to say, considerably more than Hallmark will ever entertain). As it turned out, the Power Wagon, while a consummate off-road pickup on its own, did not work out for carrying a camper (long story). I now have a Dodge 3500 CTD, which I am far happier with.
My approach has been to take a generally tough and well-built pop-up camper and pickup and make both more off-road capable. The cost to do this is spread out over time and can be done incrementally, which works best for my pocketbook and available time. Will this approach ever yield the same results and capabilites as a high-cost, high-end, and purpose-built expedition type rig? Probably not, but it will no doubt get me into some pretty rugged places and back out, and at nowhere near the cost. That works for me.
Also, with the escalation of fuel cost thing going on (in addition to other pressures in the economy), the RV manufacturing sector is likely going into a period of shrinkage. Under these circumstances, it is not likely that any RV manufacturer is going to focus on such a small piece of the overall market.
One new manufacturer (who used to post on RV.net), is in the midst of coming out with the XP Camper, which in some ways seems like a scaled-down Earthroamer, and is quite interesting. However, being a new entry about to go into the marketplace, I have no idea how strong it will turn out to be or how well it will hold up to challenging off-road conditions. In any regard, here is the link to their site: http://www.xpcamper.com/
Also, here is the link to one of the past XP Camper threads on RV.net: http://www.rv.net/FORUM/index.cfm/fuseac........hread/tid/20736981/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1
Bottom-line ... if like most of us, you cannot afford to go out and buy some high-end expedition vehicle off the shelf, you are likely going to have to pick your truck and TC well, and to then be prepared to do some work yourself, or to pay someone else to do it for you. This approach is obviously not as convenient as going down to the local "Extreme 4x4 Camper" dealer (if something like that existed), but you can make something happen if you are willing to get personally involved.
By the way, if you're interested, I can share with you what I have been doing to make my truck & camper more off-road worthy, so just let me know.
BT,
Just thinking out loud to figure out the advantage of 3 point attachment...
Supposing you've got a TC/truck with 3 point attachment. Let's look at what happens to the camper part when the rear wheel on one side drops into a deep pothole...
3-point: The front of the rig is sitting on flat ground, and the two front points of attachment will be trying to keep the front end of the camper from changing its orientation about a horizontal line drawn through those two points. The rear wheels of the truck are going to try to be lower on one side than the other, and there will be significant twist in the frame because of it. The single rear connection point will NOT try to pass that twist along to the camper...that's a good thing. That's the reason for the 3 point connection. The frame can twist without twisting the floor of the camper along with it.
OTOH, whenever the rear of the unit experiences a sudden up/down motion (like a speed bump), the forces that would normally be spread out at least across the whole back edge of the camper (if not across the whole floor), will be applied to the wimpy frame of the camper at the center of the rear edge. I would expect that to twist the camper about that rear connection point, and possibly to bend the frame piece that goes along that back bottom edge. All of those forces are now concentrated at that one point of the frame.
Idunno. Probably would have to build one and test it in real world situations to see if it would be better or not. If using 3 point method, I would at least want to shore up the back edge of the camper with a heft piece of angle-iron all along that edge.
Thanks for something interesting to think about for a few minutes. I think I'll just park my rig on some nice flat ground and think about it...
I'm thankful that nobody has found a way to charge me extra for the trips I take in my head!
DonCurley wrote: ..... (and if I may be so bold to say, considerably more than Hallmark will ever entertain).
Don
I would agree that would be a bold statement Given the opportunity I believe Hallmark would also modify their product to the customers specification- within reason and without loss of integrity to the product
DonCurley wrote: By the way, if you're interested, I can share with you what I have been doing to make my truck & camper more off-road worthy, so just let me know.
Don,
I've read a lot of your posts, here and on the Outfitter forum, and they came to mind when I started this thread. I remember a lot the mods you did to your Outfitter, and that's partly why I mentioned Outfitter. I like them, and I'd really like to see an Outfitter OR (for Off Road) version that encompasses most if not all of your mods. I realize it would be a small market, but it could be an on-demand type of modification that would be incorporated into the camper by the manufacture, much like you'd add 4WD when purchasing a truck. Just some thoughts....
Thanks,
K
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Given the opportunity I believe Hallmark would also modify their product to the customers specification- within reason and without loss of integrity to the product
