It's just plain dissapointing to see so many responses trying to justify not putting toad brakes on. My personal safety on the road depends on my judgement and the judgements made by all other drivers around me. I want an auxilliary breaking system to improve braking performance and to stop the toad in an emergency break-away situation.
Just a comment to anyone without an amergency break-away system - please reconsider and install one for everyones safety - not just your own.
I towed for a few years without one. Now that I have one I wouldn't tow without it since I have tested it and have seen how much much extra resistance it applies in a panic stop. To pick my brain now you would find out that IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONTINUING ON TO THE CAMPGROUND OR SITTING IN A POLICE STATION GIVING STATEMENTS AFTER YOU KILLED A FAMILY IN A MINI-VAN.
The peace of mind, knowing you've done the right thing, is unmeasurable.
As far as my cost is concerned, I consider it a wash. I purchased my Brakebuddy on ebay from someone getting out of camping, used in excellent condition, for around $450 complete including shipping. I know that after many years of using it I should be able to sell it for a similar amount if I keep it in good shape.
2004 Damon Daybreak 2960F
05 Honda Element LX
In a democracy two wolves and a sheep can vote on what to have for dinner.
I have an Even Brake but it doesn't work correctly. We took a 1500 mile trip last year through the mountains and towed the Town & Country with no problems, including some steep, curvy, mountain roads. It wasn't my first choice but it wasn't till we were hooking up ready to go that I discovered the Even Brake wasn't working right. I had no problems with braking. The only thing I would add is that I leave my exhaust brake on virtually all the time and it definitely helps. I don't know if a similar situation without an exhaust or engine brake would be ok or not.
Joel & Bonnie
3 teen boys and 3 dogs
2006 Monaco Diplomat 40PDQ w/4 slides, 40.5', Cummins ISL 400
Toad: 2001 Town & Country, Falcon All-Terrain, Roadmaster EvenBrake. Rallies Attended: 8;Gatherings Attended: 3
Admiral wrote: .
As far as my cost is concerned, I consider it a wash. I purchased my Brakebuddy on ebay from someone getting out of camping, used in excellent condition, for around $450 complete including shipping. I know that after many years of using it I should be able to sell it for a similar amount if I keep it in good shape.
You can buy "returns" of Brake Buddy here locally for about $100 more than you gave.. And WHY were they "returns"? Because people found out THEY DIDNT WORK!!
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
joelbaker wrote: I have an Even Brake but it doesn't work correctly. We took a 1500 mile trip last year through the mountains and towed the Town & Country with no problems, including some steep, curvy, mountain roads. It wasn't my first choice but it wasn't till we were hooking up ready to go that I discovered the Even Brake wasn't working right. I had no problems with braking. The only thing I would add is that I leave my exhaust brake on virtually all the time and it definitely helps. I don't know if a similar situation without an exhaust or engine brake would be ok or not.
Your exhaust brake may reduce how much you have to apply your brakes in normal driving, but it won't do a thing to shorten your stopping distance in an emergency stop. Get your brake system fixed before you really need it.
Mark
2000 Itasca Suncruiser 35U on a Ford chassis
2003 Ford Explorer toad with US Gear brakes,
ReadyBrute tow bar, and Demco base plate.
Your exhaust brake may reduce how much you have to apply your brakes in normal driving, but it won't do a thing to shorten your stopping distance in an emergency stop.
HUH?????!!!!
Quote:
Get your brake system fixed before you really need it.
This mans experience is VERY typical of these sort of devices.
Ive personally talked to 3 individuals who say that regardless of how they set their "Brake Buddy's"...they DONT ACTUATE...but when using the "test" on them..they indicate that they are functioning perfectly
jeeperman wrote: I know here in Florida its the law, when you by from a dealer they have you sign paper work saying that you understand that,Its probably for the Ins. co.
A very new requirement? I bought from a dealer in Central Florida and this issue never came up.
texasbaskets wrote: These discussions usually end up being more emotional than factual and rarely compare towing at GVWR vs. the MH being loaded at GVWR. Although I'm sure there is some obscure reason why they differ, I believe some of you never get to GVWR without a toad to see there isn't really any seat of the pants measurable difference in braking performance. Mind you, I'm not talking about GCWR, I'm saying GVWR. And yes, I have crossed the scales.
I've towed two different cars in two different configurations. I towed a Saturn 4 down without brakes and was still under my GVWR. I currently tow an Olds van on a dolly with brakes and I'm over my GVWR, but still well under the GCWR. Braking seems about the same to me.
The DP is about 10 times the weight of the Saturn, but only 4 times the weight of the Olds with dolly.
If I was running around at GVWR on the MH all the time, I would probably be using toad brakes should I go back to 4 down.
As you said, these threads have a lot of emotion and questionable facts. However, you just contributed to poor "facts". Whether you're at GVWR or not doesn't affect what you can safely tow.
There were no "poor facts" at all in my post. Actually read it again, those were my observations and beliefs. But you are incorrect. Yes, the GVWR does come into play and here is why. Many states have a performance requirement when towing, not a hardware requirement. To comply, if you can stop in a measured distance your braking power is adequate, regardless of where it's applied. If your total weight is within GVWR, it's likely that you will meet that requirement.
In addition, here is a clip of some Canadian braking requirements for a tow dolly and tow bar and the link where I found it. Notice the reference to the towing vehicle's GVWR.
Towing Dolly Brake Requirements
Gross weight of dolly and motor vehicle carried is 1,400 kg (3,081 Ibs) or less. Brakes are not required on the dolly if the net weight of dolly plus (+) the gross weight of motor vehicle carried plus (+) the gross weight of tow vehicle equals (=) less than the gross vehicle weight rating of the towing vehicle.
Combinations other than the two outlined above require brakes on the towing dolly. Brakes are not required on the motor vehicle being carried by the dolly.
Tow Bar Brake Requirements
Motorhome and Towed Motor Vehicle - If the towed motor vehicle has a gross vehicle weight of less than 2,000 kg (4,400 Ibs) and is less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating of the motorhome, brakes and coordinated brake control are not required.
Commercial Vehicle with GVWR over 5,500 kg (12,100 Ibs) and Towed Motor Vehicle - If the aggregate weight of the combination does not exceed the GVWR of the commercial vehicle brakes are not required on the motor vehicle being towed.
Other Combinations - If the combination is not included in the two situations outlined above, brakes are required on all wheels of the motor vehicle being towed in the same manner as trailer brake requirements
427435 wrote:
What's important is the ratio of weight of your MH to the weight of the toad (one without brakes). A 30,000 lb MH can tow a heavier toad (without brakes) than a 20,000 lb MH.
I gave you that information. "The DP is about 10 times the weight of the Saturn, but only 4 times the weight of the Olds with dolly." Actually, it's about 5 times the weight of the Olds with dolly that HAS BRAKES.
427435 wrote:
Having your MH at max GVWR will aid you in stopping your toad as you will have more weight on the wheels with brakes. Yes, your brakes will have more MH weight to stop, but the weight of the toad will be a smaller % and affect overall stopping distances less.
Where are your facts supporting that hypothesis?
427435 wrote:
Now my "opinion" on people towing a toad that weighs more than about 7% of the MH's weight (Ford's recommendation) without brakes.
A lot of these people like to use the "excuse" that the toad brake system can mess up their toad brakes. While there are some brake systems that I wouldn't want to use because of their design and propensity for problems, there are several systems that won't put your toad's brakes at risk (if you have any idea at all of what you're doing). If you don't have enough sense to use an SMI, a US Gear, or (I think the best) Ready Brake, then you have no business pulling a toad or probably even driving a MH!!
And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
Cheers...
* This post was
edited 05/17/08 02:47am by an administrator/moderator *
Michael, Kay, Hans (our Mini-Schnauzer co-pilot) and Prissy (Hans' Malti-Poo co-pilot)
'05 Coachmen SportsCoach SE 372DS a.k.a. "Mana's Cabana"
I have the Blue OX Box, which is a piece of junk. After burning up a set of front brakes in 18,000 miles, then warping a set of rotors in the next 6,000 miles, the Blue Ox dealer said to unplug the unit as they have a lot of problems with them. I was told that that brake unit does not release the brake peddle fast enough causing a drag on the brakes. That was 20,000 miles ago and I don't miss the unit a bit. I look legal, but that's all.
If I were to install another unit it would be an M & G all air brake unit.
Chuck
02 Travel Supreme, 2 street side slides
02 Jeep Liberty Toad
" If you don't have enough sense to use an SMI, a US Gear, or (I think the best) Ready Brake, then you have no business pulling a toad or probably even driving a MH!! "
Wow, I am glad your not the one making the descision whether or not someone is allowed to own or operate a MH. Maybe you should add that if someone is too old and doesn't have good reflexes or doesn't have 20/20 vision or doesn't full time it, then they shouldn't be allowed to drive a MH, or even have a toad setup. Lets limit the speed on these things to 25mph, so that we don't ever get into a dangerous sitiation.
If you want to eliminate all possibility of danger, accident, or lawsuit whatever, just stay home and don't ever move the darn thing. It never ceases to amaze me that some people think that their way is the only way things can be done and if someone doesn't agree with them than they are just an idiot. That goes for both sides of any arguement, not just this one.
We are all adults here, at least old enough to have a drivers license if we are operating these things. We all look at situations and evaluate them for ourselves weighing the benefits, risks, cost, all that, then make our descision. I may choose to do things one way, someone else chooses to do them another, that doesn't make one person more right or wrong necessarily. If there were only one right way to do things we all would be driving the same MH with the same toad, the same tow setup and it would be a very boring world.
I agree that a brake system set up properly will allow for faster stopping in an emergency situation. But, does anyone have any factual information as to the number of accidents that would have been avoided if break systems were in place or where an accident was caused by a faulty break system on a toad? Don't forget that driver error is the cause of virtually all accidents. Whether it is us as the driver or some other driver making the error. Anyone advocating that we remove the driver from the picture? I doubt it.
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