We had great interest in a hybrid Escape and lost interest with scarce supply and pricing games. Yes Ford is missing the boat and will probably go by the way of the dinosaur. So sad.
I think that there is some misinformation going around here. Ford spent plenty of money developing their own Hybrid system and has 158 patents to prove it. Because of some basic similarities in all hybrid systems, Ford did license the use of 21 of Toyota's patents (There in lies the misconception that they are using the "Toyota system").
If anyone takes the time to look at and drive a Prius and also a Escape Hybrid, the many differences will be noticed. For example, Ford elected to make the hybrid experience "transparent" so when you get into the Escape Hybrid you turn the key and start the gas engine, just like in any other vehicle. In a Prius, if the battery is "up", you can start out in electric mode.
Also, in addition to the Mercury Mariner ("twin" to the Escape), the Mazda Tribute Hybrid is also made at the Kansas City Assembly Plant and shares the hybrid drivetrain with the Escape & Mariner - - and all 3 are towable 4 wheels down in either 2WD or AWD configurations. Also, all 3 are eligible for the Federal Tax Credit of $3,000 for the 2WD model & $2,600 for the AWD model.
Doug Craw
2006 Jayco Greyhawk Model 27DS
Towing 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid with Brake Buddy
Where Ford fell down in the design of their Escape/Mariner/Tribute hybrids, is the engine-driven AC compressor. When the engine shuts down at a traffic light, the AC compressor won't run, and in summer heat, it won't take long to get hot inside. Setting the AC on max keeps the engine and AC compressor going at traffic lights, but that defeats the purpose of shutting the engine down when stopped. Honda and Toyota use an electric AC compressor to get around this issue.
Peralko wrote: Where Ford fell down in the design of their Escape/Mariner/Tribute hybrids, is the engine-driven AC compressor. When the engine shuts down at a traffic light, the AC compressor won't run, and in summer heat, it won't take long to get hot inside. Setting the AC on max keeps the engine and AC compressor going at traffic lights, but that defeats the purpose of shutting the engine down when stopped. Honda and Toyota use an electric AC compressor to get around this issue.
That's just plain stupid. And people are actually wondering why Toyota overtook both GM and Ford in worldwide sales? I can't tell you how pissed I would be if my AC was gonna cost me my mileage. Props to Honda and Toyota for seeing the obvious problem and fixing it. Just think that if Ford missed a problem that was that obvious and staring them in the face how many other engineering design flaws are in their vehicles?
2008 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 DC V6 4.0L Supercharged 307HP 310TQ
2007 Cruiser RV Fun Finder 250BHS, Equalizer, Prodigy 5500#'s 27ft
Peralko wrote: Where Ford fell down in the design of their Escape/Mariner/Tribute hybrids, is the engine-driven AC compressor. When the engine shuts down at a traffic light, the AC compressor won't run, and in summer heat, it won't take long to get hot inside. Setting the AC on max keeps the engine and AC compressor going at traffic lights, but that defeats the purpose of shutting the engine down when stopped. Honda and Toyota use an electric AC compressor to get around this issue.
True. Very unfortunate that it works like that. Otherwise it is a very nice small suv that gets decent mpg numbers.
Their loss. I've got a '04 Elantra and a '05 Envoy. I'm sure the resale value on the Envoy is going down even faster as gas prices increase. I'm staying with what I have until I MUST replace a vehicle and then it will be with a very efficient hybrid or hopefully a plug in electric. I have always been a GM buyer but brand alligience is a thing of the past. Detroit better wake up quick.
Do you folks realize that to run an A/C compressor on electric means that the ICE will run more often to recharge the battery to replace the energy that is being used to run the compressor. There is no "free lunch" - the energy has to come from somewhere.
I quote from a posting on "Green Hybrids.com":
"Ford engineers are smart people.
IF an electric A/C were an advantage, and the advantage out-weighed the cost, then it would have been included. I do not like it when people think they are smarter than a whole team of engineers.
The FEH is the way it is, because it is the BEST way to do things, for the majority of users, in the majority of situations, in the majority of climates.
YOU may be an exception, in the minority, and it may not be best for you.
But if you look at the whole fleet, world-wide, then an ICE based A/C is the best answer, and has the lowest environmental impact to the planet. And isn't that what you really want?
Isn't it better for you to burn an extra ounce of gas at a stoplight to run the A/C a couple months a year, than for 9 others to burn 9 extra ounces of gas to re-charge the battery from using an electrical A/C? ( Plus what if an electrical A/C meant you got a 6 year battery warranty??? Still want it? )
Remember, the A/C in your HOME is the largest power user you own.
Cool air isn't cheap folks. Most (small) home A/C are rated at 10,000 watts."
I live in Michigan and went through last summer with my Mariner Hybrid. I only found myself turning off the "Economy mode" on the A/C a couple of times to require the ICE to run all the time in order to provide cooling at stop lights or in slow moving traffic when the Mariner would normally be running in EV mode.
I know someone who played the waiting game and payed big time to get this hybrid and then found out it is flat towable but you have to have the dealer install a special switch...and then to add insult to injury..put on the even brake and guess what....the hybrids are NOT compatible with brakebuddy, evenbrake or other "box type" of aux braking systems--they slam the brake and you burn tires.. I'll stick with my Saturn VUE...tows beautifully....he had to get a whole new toad brake kit by the time it was done.....he spent far more than he would have saved by getting the hybrid and the unforeseen expenses involved with it.
Stuart and Stella Denning
2009 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 41SKQ
Our 4 Bulldogs (Summer, Sully, Sierra and Great-Grandma Demi)
2007 Saturn Vue (TOAD)
Diesel is provided by your safely trained drivers, as pictured below
I think that your friend was sold a "bill of goods". There is NO special switch needed to tow an Escape or Mariner Hybird 4 wheels down. I've towed mine for over 5,000 miles now with no problems whatsoever!
You comment that "the hybrids are NOT compatible with brakebuddy, evenbrake or other "box type" of aux braking systems--they slam the brake and you burn tires" is NOT TRUE - at least not as far as the Brake Buddy is concerned. All it takes is some experimenting to come up with the appropriate braking pressure neeeded to stop the vehilce without locking up the brakes. On my Mariner that's about 15 lbs - - way lower than that required with most other vehicles. But once adjusted properly, the Brake Buddy works fine!
If Ford engineers are so smart then why do they have almost 4x as many recalls on vehicles vs. Toyota? 4x the failures clearly says the Toyota engineers make fewer mistakes and are in fact more intelligent. I went to school with engineers who got C's and D's for grades, being an engineer, even a team of engineers doesn't mean they are smart engineers. Maybe they should engineer cars that will sell better vs. their competition?
DouglasCraw wrote: Do you folks realize that to run an A/C compressor on electric means that the ICE will run more often to recharge the battery to replace the energy that is being used to run the compressor. There is no "free lunch" - the energy has to come from somewhere.
I quote from a posting on "Green Hybrids.com":
"Ford engineers are smart people.
IF an electric A/C were an advantage, and the advantage out-weighed the cost, then it would have been included. I do not like it when people think they are smarter than a whole team of engineers.
The FEH is the way it is, because it is the BEST way to do things, for the majority of users, in the majority of situations, in the majority of climates.
YOU may be an exception, in the minority, and it may not be best for you.
But if you look at the whole fleet, world-wide, then an ICE based A/C is the best answer, and has the lowest environmental impact to the planet. And isn't that what you really want?
Isn't it better for you to burn an extra ounce of gas at a stoplight to run the A/C a couple months a year, than for 9 others to burn 9 extra ounces of gas to re-charge the battery from using an electrical A/C? ( Plus what if an electrical A/C meant you got a 6 year battery warranty??? Still want it? )
Remember, the A/C in your HOME is the largest power user you own.
Cool air isn't cheap folks. Most (small) home A/C are rated at 10,000 watts."
I live in Michigan and went through last summer with my Mariner Hybrid. I only found myself turning off the "Economy mode" on the A/C a couple of times to require the ICE to run all the time in order to provide cooling at stop lights or in slow moving traffic when the Mariner would normally be running in EV mode.
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