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Open Roads Forum  >  Dinghy Towing

 > Ford to only produce 25,000 Hybrid Escapes in 2009

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Peralko

San Antonio, Texas

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Posted: 05/28/08 10:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just because someone posts something on Greenhybrid does not mean they know of which they speak.


Peralko
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apr67

Tallahassee, Florida

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Posted: 05/28/08 05:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DouglasCraw wrote:

Do you folks realize that to run an A/C compressor on electric means that the ICE will run more often to recharge the battery to replace the energy that is being used to run the compressor. There is no "free lunch" - the energy has to come from somewhere.


Gee so Toyota can figure it out, but Ford, with the 'better idea' can't.

Many people live in parts of this country where AC is requred 10 months out of the year. Also belt driven devices like AC sap so much power because they do not run at a constant speed, and are quite inefficent. A direct drive AC compressor can be more efficent, and we will likely see direct drive eletric AC on even non hybrids in the not too distant future, just like many cars are going to eletric power steering assist pumps.


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cjoseph

WV

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Posted: 05/28/08 09:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I left the Camry Hybrid turned on in an amusement park parking lot when it was new --DUH.

It was about 85 degrees out and in the sun.

The trip computer said 40 MPG when we parked. Three hours later, when we got back to the car, it was cool inside, and the trip computer read 26 MPGs!

The DW still double checks me whenever I park it.

We have since grown use to never taking the key out of our pocket and just hitting the start button. Turning the ignition on and off is a hard habit to brake.


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Peralko

San Antonio, Texas

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Posted: 05/28/08 09:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Running the engine just to power the AC compressor is very inefficient, and why Toyota went to an all-electric compressor. The Honda system actually can power the AC compressor either by the engine or by electric--under some circumstances, such as at highway speeds, use of the engine will be just as efficient. An electric AC compressor can also run at different speeds, depending on demand.
Ford probably just took the easy and cheap way, like they usually do!

kmb1966

Houston

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Posted: 05/29/08 08:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DouglasCraw wrote:

Do you folks realize that to run an A/C compressor on electric means that the ICE will run more often to recharge the battery to replace the energy that is being used to run the compressor. There is no "free lunch" - the energy has to come from somewhere.

I quote from a posting on "Green Hybrids.com":

"Ford engineers are smart people.

IF an electric A/C were an advantage, and the advantage out-weighed the cost, then it would have been included. I do not like it when people think they are smarter than a whole team of engineers.

The FEH is the way it is, because it is the BEST way to do things, for the majority of users, in the majority of situations, in the majority of climates.

YOU may be an exception, in the minority, and it may not be best for you.

But if you look at the whole fleet, world-wide, then an ICE based A/C is the best answer, and has the lowest environmental impact to the planet. And isn't that what you really want?

Isn't it better for you to burn an extra ounce of gas at a stoplight to run the A/C a couple months a year, than for 9 others to burn 9 extra ounces of gas to re-charge the battery from using an electrical A/C? ( Plus what if an electrical A/C meant you got a 6 year battery warranty??? Still want it? )

Remember, the A/C in your HOME is the largest power user you own.
Cool air isn't cheap folks. Most (small) home A/C are rated at 10,000 watts."


I live in Michigan and went through last summer with my Mariner Hybrid. I only found myself turning off the "Economy mode" on the A/C a couple of times to require the ICE to run all the time in order to provide cooling at stop lights or in slow moving traffic when the Mariner would normally be running in EV mode.

This was probably the logic that was used by the engineers at Ford. Meanwhile, Toyota's engineers are ROTFLTAO all the way to the bank with a better mousetrap without a doubt.

amxpress

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Posted: 05/30/08 06:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Ford did license the use of 21 of Toyota's patents (There in lies the misconception that they are using the "Toyota system").

So these 21 Toyota patents didn't save Ford any time or money in the R&D and production? Interesting....


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