2005 Trail-Cruiser 30QBSS - GVWR of 5850lbs., loaded for camping with 30 gallons of fresh water (which we normally don't take, but this trip was to a water-less site), and a little less food (short trip) then we might normally have which will make up a little of that water weight.
2006 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 with a tow capactiy of 7400lbs., GCWR of 13000lbs., full tank of gas, and me, my wife, and our son.
Hitch is Reese HP Dual Cam, ball tilted back a bit, with 6 links under tension.
Truck & Trailer WITH WD bars:
Front Axle 3440
Drive Axle 3100
Trailer Axle 5160
Truck & Trailer WITHOUT WD bars:
Front Axle 3240
Drive Axle 3380
Trailer Axle 5100
Truck Alone:
Front Axle 3500
Drive Axle 2560
Total weight of truck 6060 lbs.
Total weight of rig 11700 lbs.
Based on this I am estimating my trailer GVW at 5640 lbs.(total weight minus truck)
The tongue weight is only around 540-560 lbs, though, depending on which way you calculate it. One way is to take the total weight of the camper and subtract the axle weight, the other is to add the weight of the truck axles with and without the trailer hooked up and find the difference. Either way the weight comes in between 540-560 lbs., which seems a bit low at right around 10%.
The trailer rode dead level (my father followed us on this trip) and he said it looked great. I didn't feel the rigs passing me at all, and I did not feel any sway at all (which was a nice switch from the Dakota ).
I occasionally felt a LITTLE bit of the front back rocking (porpoising), but not too much. Do you think besides the road surface the light tongue weight would have anything do with this?
I am currently running the hitch at it's lowest position on the shank, the ball is tilted back a reasonable amount and I am running 6 links under tension which gives me a good amount of clearance from the cams. On the Dakota I ran 5 links under tension and hated the fact that the bars were so close to the cams, but it did work.
Do you think loading the trailer more nose heavy is good enough, or do you think I should mess with the setup (ball tilt & links under tension)? I hate to argue with success.
Thanks for your comments, and BOY do I like the additional safety margin this GMC provides over the Dakota. I couldn't help but smile after every rig passed me!
Dirk
Myself (34), my Wife(32), and "The Boy"(3)
06 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab, 5.3L V8, 3.42rear
05 30QBSS Trail-Cruiser, Prodigy BC, Reese Dual Cam W/D
You've done your homework! If it was my rig I'd try to load to get a bit more weight on the tongue. I believe 12% is considered the safe minimum. I carry freshwater simply because that tank is forward of the axles and it gives me that 12%.
Rick
& wife Loie & Kodi Dog (blk male std poodle)
1995 F-250 460 Banks (wow!) & 2005 25' Bigfoot RQ
Quote: The tongue weight is only around 540-560 lbs, though, depending on which way you calculate it.
The ONLY way to know what your tongue weighs is to take it to a scale and weigh the tongue. Brochure tongue weights are ALWAYS for a completely empty trailer with no optional equipment or personal gear. My tongue weight is listed by the BROCHURE at 650 lb. and it's actual weight when loaded for travel is 1,200 lb. Just remember than every pound you put IN the trailer forward of the axles adds to the tongue weight. I would question your numbers of a GVWR of under 6,000 lb. for what I'd ASSUME is a 30 foot (or there about) trailer so you might check the weight sticker again to tell for sure. A GVWR pf under 6,000 would put your empty trailer at something like 4500 lb. and that's AWFULLY light for a 30 footer. Most will have a tongue weight of 10% to 15% of the ACTUAL weight of the trailer. If you're loaded to the max and weigh only 6,000 lb. that could easily put your tongue weight at 900 lb.
Skip, I am not sure if you missed this in my post, but those numbers are CAT SCALE numbers not brouchure numbers.
The 30 footer is a light-weight model. Its empty weight is 4400 and its sticker max GVWR is 5850.
And as far as tongue weight goes, I appreciate the fact that the best way to weigh the tongue, is simoply to weigh the tongue alone. But, if the truck weighs a certain amount by itself, and weighs a certain amount more with the trailer attached, the difference has to be the tongue weight, doesn't it?
I used a three scale Cat scale truck stop to measure - three weights back to back, with the same exact load including passengers. So without the w/d bars hooked up, the difference in weight between the truck alone(6060 lbs.) and the truck & trailer without w/d bars (6620 lbs.) HAS to be the added weight of the tongue (in this case 560 lbs.)
I am not sure I understand how this math is not accurate. If I am missing something please help me understand what it is.
The real numbers I have show me to be a little light in the tongue, so the real questions I have revolve about whether to change anything in the setup or just load the nose a little heavier.
* This post was
edited 06/06/08 09:25am by kraushad *
kraushad wrote: Skip, I am not sure if you missed this in my post, but those numbers are CAT SCALE numbers not brouchure numbers.
The 30 footer is a light-weight model. Its empty weight is 4400 and its sticker max GVWR is 5850.
And as far as tongue weight goes, I appreciate the fact that the best way to weigh the tongue, is simoply to weigh the tongue alone. But, if the truck weighs a certain amount by itself, and weighs a certain amount more with the trailer attached, the difference has to be the tongue weight, doesn't it?
I used a three scale Cat scale truck stop to measure - three weights back to back, with the same exact load including passengers. So without the w/d bars hooked up, the difference in weight between the truck alone(6060 lbs.) and the truck & trailer without w/d bars (6620 lbs.) HAS to be the added weight of the tongue (in this case 560 lbs.)
I am not sure I understand how this math is not accurate. If I am missing something please help me understand what it is.
The real numbers I have show me to be a little light in the tongue, so the real questions I have revolve about whether to change anything in the setup or just load the nose a little heavier.
Your math is accurate, and using that way to find aprox tongue weight is fine. However any time there is a question (you seem to feel its light/questionable) the only way to find the actual tongue weight is with a Sherline or the bathroom scale. Cat scales can easily be far enough out of cal to cause havoc while looking for 100 pounds in 10,000+.
I have found that when towing a long TT (28ft. plus), having the loaded tongue weight closer to 15% of the loaded TT weight seems to provide a better towing experience.
Also, you mentioned that on this particular trip you towed with 30 gallons of fresh water, where is the tank located in relation to the TT axles? Depending on the location of the tank you may be experiencing some weight displacement effect that may influence the porpoising, and may also contribute to a lighter loaded tongue weight.
In some cases a partially filled fresh water tank can also influence unwanted TT movement while in tow.
If you normally tow with your TT tanks empty, it may be interesting to see what the CAT scales say under these conditions.
Just food for thought.
Turk2500
05 Jayco Eagle, 278FBS, UVW 7,063lbs, GVWR 9,000lbs.
Tongue Weight: Dry 913lbs/Loaded 1,200lbs.
02 Chevy, 2500HD/4x4, 6.0L/4:10, EC/LS/SB, Prodigy, GCWR 16,000lbs.
TV/TT loaded: 14,700lbs.
Putnam XDR Class V, Reese HP Dual Cam.
00 HD Road King Classic.
I think you have the TW within a few pounds. Certified truck scales must be within + or - 20#. 10% TW is the minimum recommended. If your rig handles well it might be enough. If you got up to around 12% you'd probably help the porpoising a bit but you'd have to adjust your hitch (not a bad thing mind you) to compensate. All-in-all if YOU feel it's too light then by all means load it up a bit, readjust everything and go camping!
Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab (Yeah, it's got a Cummins)
2006 Forest River Grand Surveyor GS-280
Prodigy Brake Controller
1000/10000lb Equal-i-zer with 4-way sway control
davidj54 wrote: I think you have the TW within a few pounds. Certified truck scales must be within + or - 20#. 10% TW is the minimum recommended. If your rig handles well it might be enough. If you got up to around 12% you'd probably help the porpoising a bit but you'd have to adjust your hitch (not a bad thing mind you) to compensate. All-in-all if YOU feel it's too light then by all means load it up a bit, readjust everything and go camping!
SAY WHAT? Thats 0.00025% on an 80,000 rig.........can you point me to where you came across that "+ or - 20#" info?
Also, you mentioned that on this particular trip you towed with 30 gallons of fresh water, where is the tank located in relation to the TT axles? Depending on the location of the tank you may be experiencing some weight displacement effect that may influence the porpoising, and may also contribute to a lighter loaded tongue weight.
Turk2500
The tank is just in front of the rear axle on the passenger's side of the TT, so I doubt it takes any weight off the tongue. I do usually tow without much water (a few gallons for pit stops) but we were going to a campground without facilities so I had the fresh water full up. Since the water sits between the axles I am doubting it affects tongue weight that much.
* This post was
edited 06/07/08 03:43pm by kraushad *
Your weights sound nearly perfect to me. If you are satisfied with the way your rig handles and tows, don't mess with perfecion. Normal TT tongue weight is 10-12%, 5th wheel trailers begin at 15%(Titanium)and go to 22% for some of the heavy full-time 5ers.
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