Camper G wrote: No offense intended fickman. Just voicing my prospective and concern with some American's attitudes.
I'm with you on this one. . . we should never say, "Never" when predicting the future. I've said a few times on here that I have the luxury of working from home, so our fuel consumption is minimal. DW is a school teacher now, so this summer we'll barely drive unless it's on a trip.
I think we'll see some creative solutions emerge in the next few years. . . both in the RV and in the automobile world. Fewer people now look at my FIL like he's crazy for towing a utility trailer with a VW Jetta TDI. He used to tow their PUP with a Passat TDI until they got the diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee.
2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Crew Cab SB LS 6.0L 4x4 4.10
DW, DD (May, 2007), DS (October, 2008), and me
Wife has a Honda Odyssey. I don't care for it at all.
Steering, gas, brakes all feel very vague.
Suspension is very soft.
I haul the kids as much as she does, so last year I got a Mazda 5 Mazda 5
I love it. It's a mini-mini van. Seats 6, has rear sliders, but is based on the Mazda 3 chassis. It feels very tight, handling is very precise if not extremely sporty. Gets good milage.
Got it in a 5 speed! (try that with any other kid hauler) and it cost $17K brand spanking new.
I think it is the future for families with 2-4 kids that don't want to spend a ton of money on the vehicle or gas.
The Kia ronda is similar (except it has regular rear doors and no stick is availble).
brownja wrote: I haul the kids as much as she does, so last year I got a Mazda 5 Mazda 5
I love it. It's a mini-mini van. Seats 6, has rear sliders, but is based on the Mazda 3 chassis. It feels very tight, handling is very precise if not extremely sporty. Gets good milage.
Got it in a 5 speed! (try that with any other kid hauler) and it cost $17K brand spanking new.
I think it is the future for families with 2-4 kids that don't want to spend a ton of money on the vehicle or gas.
I agree 100%. It is a little small, but still very functional, and the 5 speed stick is a huge plus in my book. That vehicle has a lot of appeal, and will probably sell well in the future.
2004 Ford Freestar 4.2 liter
2003 Jayco Qwest 12A
preserve the Second Amendment
brownja wrote: I haul the kids as much as she does, so last year I got a Mazda 5 Mazda 5
I love it. It's a mini-mini van. Seats 6, has rear sliders, but is based on the Mazda 3 chassis. It feels very tight, handling is very precise if not extremely sporty. Gets good milage.
Got it in a 5 speed! (try that with any other kid hauler) and it cost $17K brand spanking new.
I think it is the future for families with 2-4 kids that don't want to spend a ton of money on the vehicle or gas.
I agree 100%. It is a little small, but still very functional, and the 5 speed stick is a huge plus in my book. That vehicle has a lot of appeal, and will probably sell well in the future.
Wow, I like it, too. Like the mileage numbers, and that you can get it with a stickshift. Not easy to get any vehicle with a stickshift anymore. That unit may well be on our short list, whenever we decide to part ways with the Caravan.
It *is* a little small, though, which is same reason why we didn't like the Mazda minivan a years ago when we got the Caravan. Seems it'd be awful cramped inside.
I'd be curious to see some real-world mileage numbers on it as well. Usually, 4 cylinder minivans are bad news for mileage, especially on the highway. Too much mass, being moved with too little engine. May not be the case, though, with how much smaller this one is, and a manual tranny in it..
Good question! Since the modern Mini Van has grow to over two tons and some are over 250HP one wonders why the are still called Mini Vans. Lets start calling them "Mighty Vans". it's more appropriate.
Wow, I like it, too. Like the mileage numbers, and that you can get it with a stickshift. Not easy to get any vehicle with a stickshift anymore. That unit may well be on our short list, whenever we decide to part ways with the Caravan.
It *is* a little small, though, which is same reason why we didn't like the Mazda minivan a years ago when we got the Caravan. Seems it'd be awful cramped inside.
I'd be curious to see some real-world mileage numbers on it as well. Usually, 4 cylinder minivans are bad news for mileage, especially on the highway. Too much mass, being moved with too little engine. May not be the case, though, with how much smaller this one is, and a manual tranny in it..
Will
I'm a real stick shift snob, so that was a big factor for me. I've had the car for about 15 months and have about 13k on it.
Around town mileage is 25. The only times I've gone below 25 mpg were on winter gas and all short trips where I warm it up for 3 or 4 minutes and then go a mile to the elementary school.
Real highway milage 27-30, driving between 68-72. Speedo is pretty accurate, only reads about 1 mph high at those speeds.
Best milage was 33 (twice) extended highway runs at slightly slower speeds with cruise control on.
5th gear is just tiny bit too short. It starts to feel a bit busy as you get up to around 75.
A six speed or just slightly spread out ratios on the 5 speed would make it perfect.
Zero maintenance or quality issues. Routine maintenance cost are a joke compared to the VW Jetta it replaced. $27 bucks for the 3K and $35 for the 12 k service. I think the initial service on the VW was $170.
OEM roof rack is made by Thule. Bikes, Kayaks and Ski box all ride on top. That takes care of most space issues. Stuff on the roof has a negligable impact on MPG (the short 5th gear helps there).
Wow, I like it, too. Like the mileage numbers, and that you can get it with a stickshift. Not easy to get any vehicle with a stickshift anymore. That unit may well be on our short list, whenever we decide to part ways with the Caravan.
It *is* a little small, though, which is same reason why we didn't like the Mazda minivan a years ago when we got the Caravan. Seems it'd be awful cramped inside.
I'd be curious to see some real-world mileage numbers on it as well. Usually, 4 cylinder minivans are bad news for mileage, especially on the highway. Too much mass, being moved with too little engine. May not be the case, though, with how much smaller this one is, and a manual tranny in it..
Will
I'm a real stick shift snob, so that was a big factor for me. I've had the car for about 15 months and have about 13k on it.
Around town mileage is 25. The only times I've gone below 25 mpg were on winter gas and all short trips where I warm it up for 3 or 4 minutes and then go a mile to the elementary school.
Real highway milage 27-30, driving between 68-72. Speedo is pretty accurate, only reads about 1 mph high at those speeds.
Best milage was 33 (twice) extended highway runs at slightly slower speeds with cruise control on.
5th gear is just tiny bit too short. It starts to feel a bit busy as you get up to around 75.
A six speed or just slightly spread out ratios on the 5 speed would make it perfect.
Zero maintenance or quality issues. Routine maintenance cost are a joke compared to the VW Jetta it replaced. $27 bucks for the 3K and $35 for the 12 k service. I think the initial service on the VW was $170.
OEM roof rack is made by Thule. Bikes, Kayaks and Ski box all ride on top. That takes care of most space issues. Stuff on the roof has a negligable impact on MPG (the short 5th gear helps there).
Road Ruler wrote: Good question! Since the modern Mini Van has grow to over two tons and some are over 250HP one wonders why the are still called Mini Vans. Lets start calling them "Mighty Vans". it's more appropriate.
So what would you call my van then? It is almost 3.5 Tons and has over 400 hp
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, 230,000+ miles
Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW (still looking for its replacement)
Road Ruler wrote: Good question! Since the modern Mini Van has grow to over two tons and some are over 250HP one wonders why the are still called Mini Vans. Lets start calling them "Mighty Vans". it's more appropriate.
So what would you call my van then? It is almost 3.5 Tons and has over 400 hp
Full disclosure: I'm an Irish Citizen living in the US. Some things in Europe are better than than in the US. Some things in the US are better. Last I checked the laws of Physics were the same everywhere (though I'm sure Brussels is working on a treaty).
Cheers,
jb
* This post was
edited 06/10/08 08:47pm by brownja *
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