javaseuf wrote: Having worked at many dealerships, let me offer my opinion.
The dealer is interested in dealing with and talking with the persone that will be the decision maker and the one who will be writting the check. They aren't intersted in dealing with someone that won't make the decision to purchase and that doesn't have the authority to pay for the RV.
But, apparently, as per the thinking of the dealer, we buyers ARE interested in negotiating with a salesman who is unable to say yea or nay but instead has to run to the sales manager to get any deal approved! That's one of my bigger irritations about trying to buy a car or an RV.
Rick & Karen
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 4.0L V6
Humanity is a parade of fools and I am at the head of it, cheerfully calling cadence.
I too would love to look at your website but need the address. I have bought 2 TTs and was shocked at how little information there is on the web to aid one in this important decision. I do my homework before buying a car or truck using websites like Edmunds.com to get invoice pricing including options and rebate information. I was using this type of information even before there was a WWW and had to use the paperback version of Edmunds. Some car dealers have embraced the web now even listing their inventory and the associated Mullrooney sticker so you can do your homework, calculate dealer cost, holdback, and invoice cost of options before you set foot on the lot. If you know what you want, you can even determine which dealers have the vehicle you desire and play one against the other to get the best price. The smart dealers don't use the antiquated "Leisure Suit Larry" as the selling point for their vehicles using instead their "Internet" manager or "Fleet" manager. Some dealers assume they are still in (their) good ol' days and try to hide from the consumer what these numbers are so they can play the old familiar games with the uninformed. Truth be told, when I encounter these guys, I actually enjoy playing the game with them, finally beating them, turning their tactics to my advantage. The only problem is that it wastes my time as well as theirs going that route.
When I tried to get the same information for my TT purchase I found nothing on the web that was anywhere near as detailed as the Edmunds site for vehicles. MSRP is whatever the selling dealer wants to put on a piece of paper in the TT. The games the RV dealers played were right out of the auto industry book of tricks prior to the web. The only real way I was fairly certain I got a good deal was to lowball and then walk. Their phone call to accept my offer if I returned was as dependable as the rainfall in Seattle in January. I was very uncomfortable making as large a purchase with so little information. Given the slow selling market ahead, the smart dealerships will embrace those using the web and find a way to make a profit selling to informed buyers. Those who won't will become relagated to the dustbin of failed enterprise.
1999 F250 XLT Superduty Supercab 2WD, V10 pulling a 2006 Keystone Cougar 243 RKS
Oh yeah, the wife & Beagle come along too!
javaseuf wrote: Having worked at many dealerships, let me offer my opinion.
The dealer is interested in dealing with and talking with the person that will be the decision maker...This is why many salesmen are very short on the phone, say they have the RV you are looking for to get you down to the dealership...
I have to disagree with your point.
The dealer wants to get you on the lot because they can then pressure you into making a bad decision after you make an emotional connection with a particular RV.
I have purchased many rental properties over the phone. The numbers have to work first and then I just take a look at the property to verify what was advertised. No emotion, just pure business. Vehicles and RVs should be purchased the same way, the numbers have to make sense first.
Tim
"Okay, I admit it, the only thing I'm really good at is being me."
JustCallMeJohn wrote: I'll have to admit that I was getting a big discouraged until I read the last few posts here. Now I'm loaded for bear and ready to go. I'll be back online in a few days. RV sales managers in '70's leisure suits...look out!
I WILL PAY $1,000 CASH TO ANYONE WHO CAN PROVE THAT I HAVE MADE ONE RED CENT FROM MY SERVICE. THIS OFFER STANDS FOREVER.
I find it hard to believe that you don't intend to make some profit. I don't know you and this is not personal, just skepticism based on life experience.
Will you ultimately have advertising on your site? Will you be getting paid for it? Could make for a nice profit. Many Bloggers earn a living just by using Google adsense on their sites.
I find it hard to believe that you don't intend to make some profit. I don't know you and this is not personal, just skepticism based on life experience.
Will you ultimately have advertising on your site? Will you be getting paid for it? Could make for a nice profit. Many Bloggers earn a living just by using Google adsense on their sites.
Okay. I know you find it hard to believe that I would go to all of this trouble and not intend to make any money. Let me try to lay this out for you and anyone else who is naturally skeptical. (By the way--I would be as skeptical as you if this was someone else's idea).
* This Web site will not have any advertising. Zip. Nada. Never.
* I will completely bear the expense of the Web site. There can be no conflict of interest when you are not taking contributions, advertising or charging for your service.
* I am retired. This will be my hobby. I have the time to devote to this project and I have enough money that I don't want or need to make more.
* This Web site is needed. There is a lot of information on the Internet already about shopping for RVs and avoiding being ripped off. There are lots of dissatisfied customers out there. There are also people who are very happy with the way they were treated when they purchased their RV, and they want to sing the praises of dealers who know how to treat a customer. I intend to combine all of the best features of other Web sites and customer stories of satisfaction/dissatisfaction, along with tools that customers can use to work through all of the dealer smoke screens to get a good deal.
* I have become very upset with the cocky, self-assured dealers who think that customers entering their lots are pieces of meat that were created for the sole purpose of putting big money into their pockets. I find it hard to believe that dealers, especially now with the bad economy and high fuel prices, are not motivated to even give prices over the Internet.
My Web site is being designed now. I hope to have it ready for basic business within a few days, but I'm going to heavily rely upon other RVers to provide me with the fuel that's going to drive my site. Your experiences with dealers (pro and con), your suggestions as to how to handle aggressive salespeople, tips from ex RV salesmen, and other tools will eventually be available for the benefit of the prospective buyer.
N7UMS wrote: First of all I don't see that mentioning the name of unscrupulous dealers is a bad thing (or even illegal) if the information is related first had through the experience of those that have had those experiences...BTW what is the address for your site?
I would LOVE to mention dealer names, but I have done a lot of thinking about this and here's why I'm not naming names directly: my grand plan is to become an enormous thorn in the side of any dealer who abuses the relationship with his customer. I hope that this Web site will eventually cause great frustration among dishonest dealers. I hope that the time comes when these dealers are so upset that they'll be looking for ways to close the Web site down. If I name the names of these dealers, they can sue for libel. Sure, in a libel suit the one claiming to be libeled has to prove that the statements made against them are untrue, but imagine a group of dealers suing little old me. They can pool their resources and spend thousands of dollars harassing me while I have to spend thousands of dollars to defend myself. They have more money than I do, so they just wait like vultures for me to run out of funds and give up. I can't beat them at this game.
My plan involves, among other things, praising the dealers who know how to treat their customers. It will involve recommending good dealers, not bad-mouthing bad ones. So, if you visit the site and you're thinking of visiting Slick Bob's RV, and you don't find anything positive about Slick Bob's, that might be a clue that you may want to avoid having the soles of your shoes touch the asphalt of Bob's lot. I can't be sued for not mentioning a dealer. They won't have any way to come after me.
The Web site is not on line yet. I have a lot of work to do but hope to have it up in a few days. Then, I will be accumulating a ton of information to make it an effective tool for buyers. I will be asking fellow RVers to donate their experiences confidentially. Customer names will not be published if it exposes them to lawsuits from dealers. And I will have ways of informing RVers of which dealers to stay away from without directly naming names. I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but I know how to stay out of trouble.
My goal is to have this Web site thrive and grow long after I'm gone. If the day ever comes when all dealers are honest, above-board and thoughtful of their customers, then the Web site will come down. Somehow, I don't believe that's going to happen anytime soon...
Well John, it really sounds like your original plan to help the RV'er has changed into a "vigilante" type of mission to go after dealers that don't operate to your standards. This is a good thing and I admire you for it but in doing this, just don't lose sight of your original vision of helping the prospective customer.
And your term "unscroupulous profits" is a subjective term since profits don't have a fixed percentage.
And it really comes down to the fact that dealers that have been in business many years and that are doing well will just not care what you or anyone else thinks about their way of operation.
Steve
2007 Springdale 291RKL
2003 F150 King Ranch
2001 Dodge Van w/Wheelchair Ramp
1991 Palomino Mustang PUP
Eureka Timberline Tent
Yamaha IF2400isc
Yamaha EF3000iSEBC "Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It"
I smell a con. Not sure what it is yet. But, a con nevertheless.
Base line pricing new rigs is relatively easy if you look at previous years resale values on KBB or NADA. Say you are looking at a 2008 make and model XXX. Just look at 2007 and 2006 resale values for same size, options, and condition, whatever the percentage difference between 2006 and 2007, calculate twice that percentage between 2007 and 2008 to come up with a ballpark for new pricing. There are lots of variables, like delivery charges to the dealer, dealer labor costs, dealer overhead, etc. Don't be surprised if first year depreciation is 30-40%. This will give you only a ballpark idea of where you might start negotiating. Anyone can do it without an "AGENT" "working" for us.
Sorry if I am a cynic.
RVnRobin, DW, and the cat.
The cat thinks she is the boss!
javaseuf wrote: Well John, it really sounds like your original plan to help the RV'er has changed into a "vigilante" type of mission to go after dealers that don't operate to your standards. This is a good thing and I admire you for it but in doing this, just don't lose sight of your original vision of helping the prospective customer.
And your term "unscroupulous profits" is a subjective term since profits don't have a fixed percentage.
And it really comes down to the fact that dealers that have been in business many years and that are doing well will just not care what you or anyone else thinks about their way of operation.
I can see how you could think that my original plan to help RV buyers has been diverted to more of a hunter-killer mission, concentrating on dealers that don't operate to "my standards." I will admit that I have changed my tactics, but my end goal isn't really much different. I'm just going at it from a different angle. I'm not out to persecute the lousy dealers; I'm out to bring the good dealers more business than they can handle. We both know that in the RV world, there are the good, the bad and the ugly. I'm going to concentrate on the good, and I hope that this eventually impacts the bad and the ugly. The big difference in my new game plan is that I'm going to involve as many RVers as possible in helping to build the Web site into a giant reference source for buyers. In a few days, you'll see what I'm up to. I hope that you'll be honest (I think you will ) and make suggestions. This won't be my Web site. It will be yours and mine and the property of any other RVer that wishes to contribute. I will merely be the clearing house for ideas, suggestions and information.
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) and make suggestions. This won't be my Web site. It will be yours and mine and the property of any other RVer that wishes to contribute. I will merely be the clearing house for ideas, suggestions and information.
