dougger222 wrote: My wife has talked about getting a little car for her 10 mile commute to work. I tell her since the X is long paid for it would be a waste of money to buy a new or slightly used car.
She works as a bar manager at a steak house her family owns. When she leaves work she's on the road with all the drunks. Would you rather have your wife in a Civic or an Excursion at that time of the night? A bar manager up the road got hit head on at 2am on her way home from work recently. A mutual friend of my wife and the dead girl said, "If she was in this vehicle she would have lived I bet".
The other day on the way up to Mille Lacs Lake I decided to take the dually after thinking about taking the Neon. Glad I took the big rig because the second the deer bounced off the front bumper at 55 mph realized I made a wise choice. Of course it did damage as it was a rather large deer but if the Neon would have it it would have been really bad.
Hard to put a value on safety.
I'm a bit like you. We have a Vibe we use for city use, Astro for towing and a Buick sedan (LaCrosse-Allure) for highway driving and city driving.
The Buick is 3600 + lbs, has a long front end, a good cage and is a 5 star in crashes.
We bought the Buick for comfort, room and also the fact that it is a large car....it eats a bit more gas, but I look at it as extra insurance costs when we on the highway.
BTW, I note in your signature..'65 Stang 289 (K code?), GTO, etc....quite a nice muscle car collection there.
Good riddance. They are gas guzzlers that would be better suited in Saudi Arabia than here.
Matt J - 1956 416 Unimog w/32ft Jamco and two mules; Unimog 1750L camper in Guatemala
Bert - '08 Dakota 4.7, 19ft Airstream
My best friend Wolf died this morning, 16 Nov
dougger222 wrote: Would you rather have your wife in a Civic or an Excursion at that time of the night?
I'll take the Civic in most cases. In the Civic my wife would stand a chance of NOT GETTING INTO the accident. Civics handle like go-karts and stop like you tossed an anchor out. Accident avoidance and driving skill trump heavy metal.
dougger222 wrote: Glad I took the big rig because the second the deer bounced off the front bumper at 55 mph...
Again, isn't there are least a possibility that if you were paying attention, saw the dear in the ditch, and were able to react in a timely manner with precision accuracy, that you wouldn't have hit anything? I've had deer jump out in front of me several times while driving small cars like my Subaru, and to date I've hit only one, a glancing blow that did moderate damage. At that time i was driving a Nissan Pulsar sports car, being able to nearly stop and swerve kept the accident minimal. Had I plowed into it with a full size truck at 55mph I would have been wearing it. In the country where I live deer are everywhere and most of the time I see them and react accordingly, something I doubt a vehicle like an Excursion would always be able to manage. Think about it.
On Edit:
I actually asked my wife this question to see if I spoke fairly above. She concurred with my statement, and reminded of a story that is pretty relevant here.
My wife was a horrible driver, totalled 2 cars (her fault) before we got married and another one after. Because of her poor driving, I kept buying big, full frame tanks thinking I was doing my best to keep her safe. One morning, on the way to work, she got pulled over for 'swerving' and the officer actually thought she had been drinking. After she proved she was sober, she was on her way but very embarrassed.
Well eventually we bought a used 88 Honda Civic more or less because it was a great deal. She drove the car once and assumed ownership permanently. I asked her why she liked the little car and her response was "I can control it much better". Later, I went for a ride with her and sure enough her driving was MUCH better. She no longer had difficulty parking or driving straight on the freeway. Within a short time she got so comfortable with the little Honda that I could even ride with her, something I couldn't handle when we drove the 'boats'. Since then, we have always had a small car or minivan for her to drive, and she has not been in an accident in 13 years. She has had close calls, but always managed to avoid the situation.
Turns out the only thing she liked about our Bronco was the rumbling V8 at a stoplight and the ability to get to work in a snowstorm. On the open road she never got used to the top-heavy feeling and poor responsiveness inherent in the large SUV design. She found it hard to park, difficult to keep in it's lane on the freeway, and because of the long high hood, hard to see in tight traffic. The most interesting statement she made was that often she found herself going slower than normal because of a feeling she couldn't stop if something happened.
I'm proud of her for that. I wish more SUV owners would start to operate their vehicles with the same level of concern.
* This post was
edited 06/16/08 09:00am by Caddywhompus *
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
dougger222 wrote: Would you rather have your wife in a Civic or an Excursion at that time of the night?
I'll take the Civic in most cases. In the Civic my wife would stand a chance of NOT GETTING INTO the accident. Civics handle like go-karts and stop like you tossed an anchor out. Accident avoidance and driving skill trump heavy metal.
dougger222 wrote: Glad I took the big rig because the second the deer bounced off the front bumper at 55 mph...
Again, isn't there are least a possibility that if you were paying attention, saw the dear in the ditch, and were able to react in a timely manner with precision accuracy, that you wouldn't have hit anything? I've had deer jump out in front of me several times while driving small cars like my Subaru, and to date I've hit only one, a glancing blow that did moderate damage. At that time i was driving a Nissan Pulsar sports car, being able to nearly stop and swerve kept the accident minimal. Had I plowed into it with a full size truck at 55mph I would have been wearing it. In the country where I live deer are everywhere and most of the time I see them and react accordingly, something I doubt a vehicle like an Excursion would always be able to manage. Think about it.
What about other drivers that are not paying attention that could hit you,and dont tell me you can avoid anything because accidents happen every day.I for one prefer my wife and kids in my suburban.
What about the families with 5 kids? They still need something that seats 7 and that is not a compact car. I agree that it is "wasteful" to drive a mid or large size SUV with only one person; especially as your daily 40 mile each way to work vehicle. Our crossover (Saturn Outlook) seats 8 and still gets over 20MPG. I suspect you will see more efficient SUV/CUVs coming out, most are already here. The mid sized, truck based SUVs may go the way of the station wagon.
We should also compute passenger miles per gallon when comparing vehicles. An Excursion carrying 7 gets better passenger miles per gallon than a Civic carrying one person.
Burp wrote: What about the families with 5 kids? They still need something that seats 7 and that is not a compact car.
Yep, thats what minivans are for. MUCH better mileage than SUVs, much better safety standards, and generally speaking, more cargo space and more comfortable passenger seating (especially in 3rd seat row). And, costs thousands less as well. Only thing a minivan can't do as well, would be off-roading and towing (something which only a very few SUV owners ever actually do, LOL).
But, so many people think minivans just don't look 'cool' enough. Sooo, now we're seeing all these cross-over vehicles, to sasify the needs of the family folks that are so paranoid about their 'image'.
Thats alright, though, let people keep thinking that way. Like I said before, it lets those of us that don't have issues with our manhood, own these great vehicles (minivans) for a lot less $$$. Right, Caddywhompus?
Quote: We should also compute passenger miles per gallon when comparing vehicles. An Excursion carrying 7 gets better passenger miles per gallon than a Civic carrying one person.
Oh, I agree. But, how many large SUVs do you actually see on the road carrying that many people? Most are not. Yes, I know, its a free country, and folks have the right to be as wasteful in that regard as they chose. However, I think gas prices are slowly but surely going to forcepeople to make wiser choices, in what they drive everyday.
Yes, we own an Excursion. But, you will almost NEVER see it on the road, unless its got our 34' trailer hitched to it. We use the Excursion strictly as a tow vehicle, or for other occasions its utility (4x4, etc) is needed. I try to use it once a month or so for an errand just to keep it active as well. But, for everything else, we have a much more efficient minivan, and sports sedan.
Will & Angela
2 wonderful children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control
(wanna see? Here is a picture of it )
dougger222 wrote: Would you rather have your wife in a Civic or an Excursion at that time of the night?
I'll take the Civic in most cases. In the Civic my wife would stand a chance of NOT GETTING INTO the accident. Civics handle like go-karts and stop like you tossed an anchor out. Accident avoidance and driving skill trump heavy metal.
dougger222 wrote: Glad I took the big rig because the second the deer bounced off the front bumper at 55 mph...
Again, isn't there are least a possibility that if you were paying attention, saw the dear in the ditch, and were able to react in a timely manner with precision accuracy, that you wouldn't have hit anything? I've had deer jump out in front of me several times while driving small cars like my Subaru, and to date I've hit only one, a glancing blow that did moderate damage. At that time i was driving a Nissan Pulsar sports car, being able to nearly stop and swerve kept the accident minimal. Had I plowed into it with a full size truck at 55mph I would have been wearing it. In the country where I live deer are everywhere and most of the time I see them and react accordingly, something I doubt a vehicle like an Excursion would always be able to manage. Think about it.
What about other drivers that are not paying attention that could hit you,and dont tell me you can avoid anything because accidents happen every day.I for one prefer my wife and kids in my suburban.
You are right, I can't do anything about the other bad drivers EXCEPT HOPE that they don't drive EXCURSIONS! Driving a large SUV for it's false sense of safety is akin to saying everyone else's life is worth less than mine. All you are doing is trading the near certain death of one of your victims for the potential slight advantage it gives you in a crash.
willald wrote: Yep, thats what minivans are for. MUCH better mileage than SUVs, much better safety standards, and generally speaking, more cargo space and more comfortable passenger seating (especially in 3rd seat row). And, costs thousands less as well. Only thing a minivan can't do as well, would be off-roading and towing (something which only a very few SUV owners ever actually do, LOL).
But, so many people think minivans just don't look 'cool' enough. Sooo, now we're seeing all these cross-over vehicles, to sasify the needs of the family folks that are so paranoid about their 'image'.
We used to own one of the best selling minivans, a Dodge Caravan. First, according to ConsumerReports the Grand Caravan gets 11/26 city/highway MPG. Our Saturn Outlook gets 10/24, both got 16 MPG overall. Not MUCH better mileage. The cost of the Grand Caravan is $21,290 - $27,140, the Outlook is $28,260 - $32,670; got me there, the Caravan is cheaper. The safety ratings are virtually identical. The Outlook is built much better (IMHO) and I would never own a Caravan again.
It is easy to slam the SUVs and the drivers. But there are reasons that people drive them and it is not always "image". The Outlook is not a car drivetrain with an SUV body, it is a new design from the ground up.
dougger222 wrote: Would you rather have your wife in a Civic or an Excursion at that time of the night?
I'll take the Civic in most cases. In the Civic my wife would stand a chance of NOT GETTING INTO the accident. Civics handle like go-karts and stop like you tossed an anchor out. Accident avoidance and driving skill trump heavy metal.
dougger222 wrote: Glad I took the big rig because the second the deer bounced off the front bumper at 55 mph...
Again, isn't there are least a possibility that if you were paying attention, saw the dear in the ditch, and were able to react in a timely manner with precision accuracy, that you wouldn't have hit anything? I've had deer jump out in front of me several times while driving small cars like my Subaru, and to date I've hit only one, a glancing blow that did moderate damage. At that time i was driving a Nissan Pulsar sports car, being able to nearly stop and swerve kept the accident minimal. Had I plowed into it with a full size truck at 55mph I would have been wearing it. In the country where I live deer are everywhere and most of the time I see them and react accordingly, something I doubt a vehicle like an Excursion would always be able to manage. Think about it.
What about other drivers that are not paying attention that could hit you,and dont tell me you can avoid anything because accidents happen every day.I for one prefer my wife and kids in my suburban.
You are right, I can't do anything about the other bad drivers EXCEPT HOPE that they don't drive EXCURSIONS! Driving a large SUV for it's false sense of safety is akin to saying everyone else's life is worth less than mine. All you are doing is trading the near certain death of one of your victims for the potential slight advantage it gives you in a crash.
I dont think i said everyone else's life is worthless so dont put words in my mouth.I guess its your choice to run around in a small car but as long as i have a choice i will put my family in the suburban.Oh as a previous post said minivans have great saftey ratings which are true but i bet not as good if hit by a bigger vehicle.I owned a minivan but we out grew it so the suburban fits our need better, and just so you dont think i care about gas i drive a little neon to work.
Keith99RS wrote: Actually the SUV class taking the biggest hit is the midsized (ie Explorer, Trailblazer, Durango). Especially those with V8's in them that yield almost identical mileage to their full sized counterparts. To me it was like the V8 Dakota's, I never saw the point of fullsized mileage penalty without the roominess of a fullsized vehicle. There was an article on Foxnews.com about this.
You're absolutely right. Also, there isn't much difference in MPG between 6 cylinders or 8's anymore either.
For example, In 2004 when we went shopping for our Jeep Grand Cherokee (Since Totalled R.I.P.) my wife had done her homework about them beforehand. And we knew that we wanted one with the 4.7L V8. Well the salesman kept trying to push V6's on us instead claiming what far better gas mileage we'd get. And he was dumbfounded when my wife told him the difference between the two. It was only like 2mpg City, and like 3mpg highway LOL!!
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2000 Ford Expedition (Main Tow Vehicle)
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