daddyralph7 wrote: I see no reason for it to be wrong no matter what a person does with their suv,if they can afford a Escalade then so what thats their choice for a vehicle its not hurting anybody just because they can afford it and the gas.So whats next trashing people that drive bmw or jaguars or is it jealousy because they have it and you dont.Live and let live were all different with views and needs.
The people that crack me up are the "Save The Planet" type folks who see all SUV owners regardless of engine size or fuel tank capacity etc. as utterly evil. And that you're somehow stealing "Their Gas" buy driving one. Even though it was "Your Money" that paid for it and not theirs!!
And then there are the hybrid folks who believe that everyone should be forced to own one. And I ALWAYS say to them, when they can come up with one that can tow between eight to twelve thousand pounds I might just buy one, but until then they don't fit my needs!!
Just the other day I ran into a great example of this. For those who don't know, my neighborhood has had more than it's fair share of rain this year and some serious flooding has been going on. On my way home from work last one of the streets on my neighborhood was run over with maybe 6 inches of water.
Now I'll be honest, normally I would have just driven right thru that little water as I know how deep I can get with the Subaru before I have a problem. But local law had ribboned off the area are directed traffic through a parking lot around the flood water and back onto the street. They had dumped some gravel by the curb to form a ramp for cars to get up off the road, cross a strip of grass, proceed onto the parking lot, cross a strip of grass again, and drive down another gravel ramp back onto the road.
I was following a Yukon AND an Expedition. I was laughing my a$$ off when these ladies proceeded to climb the gravel ramp and leave the roadway. They were moving at a snails pace and panicking each time a wheel started up the ramp. It was like they were rock-crawling in the Mojave dessert. These are trucks that could have easily driven over the curb WITHOUT the gravel ramp's assistance (heck the Subaru can do that!) and yet these people were freaking out about leaving the roadway. At one point I thought about getting out and offering to spot for them!
It made me laugh simply because I know that the vast majority of SUVs are NOT used for RVing (like so many on this forum). They never leave the road, never pull a trailer and NEVER get muddy. Either one of those SUVs could have driven through 6 inches of standing water without even getting the windshield wet, but people just don't have a clue what these vehicles are really designed for or capable of.
THOSE are the vehicles I can't wait to see leave the roadways forever. As I said before, I'm not targeting people who need their truck. I recognize that often it's the right vehicle for the job. I just can't stand to see the wasteful consumption of a non-renewable resource just because someone wants to sit up high and feel safe (even though they in truth ARE NOT).
People who bought SUVs to use as sedans or minivans have no one but themselves to blame for the cost of gas today. They were willing to trade mileage for image 5 years ago, and now must live with the consequences. It's funny too me also that a 2002 Dodge Durango now cost less on the used car market than a 2002 Toyota Corolla. I just saw that last weekend at a corner car lot by my house.
Well first of all just because the women you saw were scared going over a curb is point less and has nothing to do with the vehicle just a nervous driver.The other point is just because someone doesn't go out off roading to thrash there 40,000 dollar suv doesn't mean it does not meet their needs.
We use ours for towing,family transportation(7 kids),grocery getting and dump hauling and anything else we can think of,oh also in the snow.
Suv's did not create high gas prices,and their is no shortage at least i haven't seen any station run out just corporate greed.There are lots of other facters for high oil, plastic for one plus all the other petroleum products to many to list.
rsh_757 wrote: As long as one has 4+ members of the family and the need to tow +4WD along with hauling extra passengers the full size SUV wont be going anywhere. Crossovers are fine and all but none on them and I mean none of them have a nice 3rd row seat nor a good way to get there. Most couldn't fit a child comfortably and if used the cargo ability goes down the tubes.
Please look into the Outlook/Acadia before saying "NONE" of the crossovers have a good third row seat. I can sit back there comfortably at about 200 lbs. They can also tow 4500 lbs, a good size pop up and a hi-lo.
I don't agree, the neighbor across the street just went from a 1999 burb to an 08 Acadia. We have tried the rear seat, at 6'2 and 200 myself there is no way I would consider it remotely comfortable back there. To add, I have never owned a trailer as light as 4500#'s and won't be going there anytime soon. I own an 08 Armada, it can suck fuel like a dragster and I would buy it again. Of course, it can't tow my trailer either, but it sure in the heck tows a boat like nobody's business. Btw, my neighbor's wife got the Acadia as a surprise, she has already expressed her disappointment in it. She wants her burb back...
2008 Cougar 310SRX 5th Wheel
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4x4 CTD
2008 Nissan Armada LE
Keith99RS wrote: Vapor, I think you have totally missed my previous posts where I said if it works and fits ones needs, i.e. people on this forum who tow and offroad, it's cool.
So seeing as this is the Tow Vehicles forum, basically you are saying that this whole tirade does not apply to anyone on this forum. If that is the case, then what exactly is the point? Why not take this tirade to a forum where it might actually apply to someone? This is almost as pointless as teaching birth control at a senior citizens center.
2006 2500HD CC SB 4X4 Duramax/Allison
Prodigy/16K Reese/265E Tires/Bilstein Shocks
RM Active Suspension/RDS 60gal Toolbox combo
rsh_757 wrote: As long as one has 4+ members of the family and the need to tow +4WD along with hauling extra passengers the full size SUV wont be going anywhere. Crossovers are fine and all but none on them and I mean none of them have a nice 3rd row seat nor a good way to get there. Most couldn't fit a child comfortably and if used the cargo ability goes down the tubes.
Please look into the Outlook/Acadia before saying "NONE" of the crossovers have a good third row seat. I can sit back there comfortably at about 200 lbs. They can also tow 4500 lbs, a good size pop up and a hi-lo.
I don't agree, the neighbor across the street just went from a 1999 burb to an 08 Acadia. We have tried the rear seat, at 6'2 and 200 myself there is no way I would consider it remotely comfortable back there. To add, I have never owned a trailer as light as 4500#'s and won't be going there anytime soon. I own an 08 Armada, it can suck fuel like a dragster and I would buy it again. Of course, it can't tow my trailer either, but it sure in the heck tows a boat like nobody's business. Btw, my neighbor's wife got the Acadia as a surprise, she has already expressed her disappointment in it. She wants her burb back...
I would not compare the Acadia/Outlook to the Burb. I am sure the Burb has a more comfortable third row. I am also not 6'2", just 5'8". So the third row of the Outlook works for me. You do have to make sure you slide the second row seats up or else the third row has no leg room. That still leaves room in the second row. As far as towing, again I would not compare the two. The Outlook will tow a pop up and some boats but it will not tow like the Armada or Burb; both truck based SUVs. But I will say the Outlook/Acadia does not drink fuel like the Armada or Burb. Your friend may not have made a good choice, replacing a Burb with the Acadia.
Keith99RS wrote: Vapor, I think you have totally missed my previous posts where I said if it works and fits ones needs, i.e. people on this forum who tow and offroad, it's cool.
So seeing as this is the Tow Vehicles forum, basically you are saying that this whole tirade does not apply to anyone on this forum. If that is the case, then what exactly is the point? Why not take this tirade to a forum where it might actually apply to someone? This is almost as pointless as teaching birth control at a senior citizens center.
Perhaps you should go be a hemmoroid to the posters on this thread that think all SUV's are a waste. I didn't start the tirade BTW. I mentioned how people who need SUV's and should not care about critisism tend to get all ruffled when all someone does is mention mentions a soccer mom not needing one. Call me out on my gas hog. I don't care. I use it for what it is. However I am not going to defend the feelings of someone who bought one because it was "the in thing" and that was their reasoning. Ever wonder why trucks and SUV's now have to ride like sedans, be equipped like luxury vehicles and have lost a great deal of actual offroadability? It isn't beacuse of users like those on this forum.
daddyralph7 wrote: Well first of all just because the women you saw were scared going over a curb is point less and has nothing to do with the vehicle just a nervous driver.
Oh, but its not pointless, it makes the very point Caddy, Keith, and I have been making.
This was a good example of the common, everyday SUV owner (presenty company/forum excluded of course). People that never leave the pavement, or tow anything. People that spent tons of $$ for a purpose-built vehicle, and never use it for that purpose.
It'd be kind of like someone buying a 747 jetliner and disabling the flight systems, and only using it to taxi around on a large tarmac. Extreme example, I know, but I think you get the point.
I'm afraid Caddy is right - the example he saw here is not the exception with SUVs, its the norm. 95% of all SUVs out there, as already said, its very easy to tell that they never see offroad or tow much of anything. That being the case, it is a HUGE waste of a finite resource, and in the end it *DOES* affect us all, 'cause it raises the demand for fuel, resulting to some extent, in the high fuel prices we see now.
Quote: The other point is just because someone doesn't go out off roading to thrash there 40,000 dollar suv doesn't mean it does not meet their needs.
Ohhhh, so if it meets their needs, its OK?
So would it be a wise choice for everyone to buy class 8 HDT crew-cab semis and drive them to work and back everyday, and to get groceries, etc? I mean, using your logic, daddyralph, it meets the needs, right? Doesn't matter how wasteful it is, as long as it meets the needs, its OK?
Guess with that logic, we could all drive 40,000 lb railroad locomotives converted for street use, and it'd be OK, as long as it meets our needs, and can get us from point A to point B and carry what we need it to carry.
Quote: We use ours for towing,family transportation(7 kids),grocery getting and dump hauling and anything else we can think of,oh also in the snow.
Well, then you're not included in the folks we're talking about, that are so wasteful with these things. Neither is 95% of the people on these forums, this being an RV forum.
Quote: Suv's did not create high gas prices,
No, but the absolute CRAZE over them, and the fact soooo many people just HAD to have one just for the sake of 'image', sure helped to drive up demand, and contribute to those high prices.
Keith99RS wrote: Ever wonder why trucks and SUV's now have to ride like sedans, be equipped like luxury vehicles and have lost a great deal of actual offroadability? It isn't beacuse of users like those on this forum.
daddyralph7 wrote: Well first of all just because the women you saw were scared going over a curb is point less and has nothing to do with the vehicle just a nervous driver.
Oh, but its not pointless, it makes the very point Caddy, Keith, and I have been making.
This was a good example of the common, everyday SUV owner (presenty company/forum excluded of course). People that never leave the pavement, or tow anything. People that spent tons of $$ for a purpose-built vehicle, and never use it for that purpose.
It'd be kind of like someone buying a 747 jetliner and disabling the flight systems, and only using it to taxi around on a large tarmac. Extreme example, I know, but I think you get the point.
I'm afraid Caddy is right - the example he saw here is not the exception with SUVs, its the norm. 95% of all SUVs out there, as already said, its very easy to tell that they never see offroad or tow much of anything. That being the case, it is a HUGE waste of a finite resource, and in the end it *DOES* affect us all, 'cause it raises the demand for fuel, resulting to some extent, in the high fuel prices we see now.
Quote: The other point is just because someone doesn't go out off roading to thrash there 40,000 dollar suv doesn't mean it does not meet their needs.
Ohhhh, so if it meets their needs, its OK?
So would it be a wise choice for everyone to buy class 8 HDT crew-cab semis and drive them to work and back everyday, and to get groceries, etc? I mean, using your logic, daddyralph, it meets the needs, right? Doesn't matter how wasteful it is, as long as it meets the needs, its OK?
Guess with that logic, we could all drive 40,000 lb railroad locomotives converted for street use, and it'd be OK, as long as it meets our needs, and can get us from point A to point B and carry what we need it to carry.
Quote: We use ours for towing,family transportation(7 kids),grocery getting and dump hauling and anything else we can think of,oh also in the snow.
Well, then you're not included in the folks we're talking about, that are so wasteful with these things. Neither is 95% of the people on these forums, this being an RV forum.
Quote: Suv's did not create high gas prices,
No, but the absolute CRAZE over them, and the fact soooo many people just HAD to have one just for the sake of 'image', sure helped to drive up demand, and contribute to those high prices.
Will
There's still a flaw in your logic. . . that we can assume to know how ANY vehicle is used. How many times do they need to go camping each year to justify an RV? Aren't we worse than the ones who don't tow, since we've used even MORE resources to be even MORE inefficient?
What if that lady drives the SUV around town during the week because she's a stay-at-home mom and only puts 2-3 miles on the truck a day while her husband drives a sedan to commute to work? Her timidity or carefulness is a sign that she shouldn't drive it? What if it was her first day of having it? What if they just replaced the tires and wheels and she knew how expensive they were? What if it cost them a lot of money and she wants to be careful with it so it'll last a long time?
I have a hammer that can take all of the abuse in the world, but I still place it neatly in the toolbox instead of tossing it from across the garage.
They could've chosen for her to drive it so they can afford to use it for their weekend trips. . . or their annual trips. . . or their once-in-a-lifetime trip.
Instead of worrying so much about other people, and trying to police their behavior, and seeing a snapshot into their lives and assuming we know so much about them, why not let the market work? If people aren't getting the return in utility that they need, they will downsize.
Another implication of this line of reasoning is that, for anybody who doesn't "need" an SUV, if they bought an RV, then they're justified. Do we "need" RVs? Couldn't my family stay in a PUP? A tent? When I was in Bangalore, India, I saw families of 4-5 on one motor scooter. We have our toys because we WANT our toys, no matter what justification we come up with to keep them. Same with the people who have SUVs and don't tow.
I'm just pointing out that this is a very slippery slope to begin down, especially when most new SUVs are fairly efficient and clean - especially compared to older vehicles that the market is now encouraging people to revive out of junkyards.
2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Crew Cab SB LS 6.0L 4x4 4.10
DW, DD (May, 2007), DS (October, 2008), and me
I am also willing to bet there are alot of SUV's in driveways of houses in danger of foreclosure or maxed out mortgages these days. Many people bought them not out of need, but out of image. Overpaid for status if you will.
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