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 > Upside down! Just wonder how many of us are!

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newxmar

East Otis, MA

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Posted: 06/21/08 05:16am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A motorhome is not an "$$$$$$$ investment". It is an item bought for enjoyment/lifestyle.

sepisllib

Cresco, Iowa

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Posted: 06/21/08 05:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

True - the only way recreational items and vehicles can become an "investment" is when one has the capability to put money into something with the purpose of turning around and selling it.

That - generally - is caller "dealers".

However, the original post simply brought up the question of wondering how many folks out there have bought RV's, and related items, only to find themselves very upside down in the arrangement.

Not criticizing anyone at all here - just begged the question.

Should we be critical of others doing that - one must be honest and think about our own issues - probably most of us have done something really dumb during their tenure here.

In the mean time -

God Bless

Bill


Bill W. Trammell
Wife - Judy
2001 Monaco Dynasty Chancellor
2008 Malibu 2LT toad

-Gramps-

Portsmouth VA

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Posted: 06/21/08 05:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Skid Row Joe wrote:

-Gramps- wrote:

Oh..My Vue is financed at 0 percent interest.
Your Vue is depreciating @ the same rate as any new SUV.

In 3 years it will have depreciated by 60%.....that's not 0%. --You've been had!


Of course I have been had..just not had with interest! Oh and no bank pays 10 percent but I have some funds that do.


___________________________________________
08 Holiday Rambler Vacationer 38PLT Workhorse UFO GAS Pusher Chassis
06 Saturn Vue toad, SMI Breaking sys,Blue Ox tow bar. Myspace site and blog
Gramps and family
Drive a UFO.com


Sully2

Cincinnati

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Posted: 06/21/08 06:40am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cody wrote:

I guess I just don't understand how credit works, that you can make money by owing and paying out a small fortune in interest, the idea of writing it off on taxes is only smoke by people that don't understand finance. My brother is a very sucessful financial consultant, my father, before he passed away was a director at a major bank, my brother in law is a CPA, none of them bought into the idea of borrowing to make money, on paper it looks interesting but in the practical sence it usually falls thru. There are a lot more creative ways to make money, a lot more, I can't think of any instance where I've lost money by paying cash up front, we've bought and sold houses, apartment buildings, we have a few land holdings that are on a lease basis and providing a monthly base but always with real money and not loans. I'm always open for education so if anyone can show me in real dollars by real life experience how owing money is more cost effective than not owing money, I'm willing to listen with an open mind. Many of my investments are only paying between 7 and 9% interest now because of the downturn but that is still a fair return, a percentage of that return goes into further investments and some goes into future holdings, to borrow and cut into that return by whatever the bank is charging isn't cost effective to me, it may be to others but not to me.


You CAN use other peoples money to make you $$ but it has to be invested properly.

I write off the interest on my MoHo so it doesnt ACTUALLY cost me the full amount ( and trust me..Im NOT in the 15% tax bracket either!!) and then invest "my money" into bonds at that interest rate or even higher. I recently had to disperse funds to settle an estate that were 6.9% DOUBLE TAX FREE ( no state and no fed tax) and wasnt suppose to come due until 2028!!!!!


2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty


Sully2

Cincinnati

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Posted: 06/21/08 06:44am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

sepisllib wrote:

True - the only way recreational items and vehicles can become an "investment" is when one has the capability to put money into something with the purpose of turning around and selling it.

That - generally - is caller "dealers".

However, the original post simply brought up the question of wondering how many folks out there have bought RV's, and related items, only to find themselves very upside down in the arrangement.

Not criticizing anyone at all here - just begged the question.

Should we be critical of others doing that - one must be honest and think about our own issues - probably most of us have done something really dumb during their tenure here.

In the mean time -

God Bless

Bill


I would think that ANYONE that didnt put a large down payment ( trade AND cash..or lots of cash) to get out in front of the depreciate would be upside down at some point at least. Of course buying at the lowest price you can find sure helps out too

OntMontana

Guelph, Ontario

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Posted: 06/21/08 07:07am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

newxmar wrote:

A motorhome is not an "$$$$$$$ investment". It is an item bought for enjoyment/lifestyle.


The rate of return on our investment in a motorhome is measured in physical and mental well-being, the joy of camping with grandkids, and the ever-growing sense that we have become part of a very fortunate and unique community of active, engaged, and positive people. For us, this is NOT our fathers' retirement!!!!

Bill & Ann


Bill & Ann
2007 Tiffin Phaeton 40QDH
2007 Jeep Liberty
Our "Cat Rescue Girls", Sadie and Aimee

Sawbonz

Spring Hill, FL

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Posted: 06/21/08 08:02am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

trop-a-cal wrote:

The dollar is depreciating faster than your RV interest rate so that makes the payment almost interest free after you deduct for second home interest rate. The cost to build new Rv's will be so high, that you will have a bargain on your hands, when compared to what it would cost to build it new. Think of the drop in value for homes and big SUV's and trucks, then RV becomes not so bad. My thought is to keep it in top condition and in a few years it's paid for and all I have to pay is the cost of fuel, upkeep, and site. When housing starts back up RV values probably will get in more demand and thus increase in value.


You are a dreamer trop-a-cal, but I like it !


Karl, Natalie, Ariel, Ian, Prancer and Chewie
2007 Monaco Dynasty - Squire


2puttchuck

Bay Area

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Posted: 06/21/08 09:06am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hottubkid wrote:

But, you then pay interest so the total amount you pay is more. Yes, you make interest on money in the bank but I don't see how you make more when you could pay cash. Also, Many people think they can pay a loan and then they louse their job or have health problems. Tell me more.




2puttchuck wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:


Personally, I never finance anything... homes, cars, motorhomes... cash is king. But, everyone's situation can be different and I understand that.

MM.


Mr. Mark,

If cash is king why do you waste so much of it by paying cash for everything?

The only cash that is king is the cash you have. If it's to my advantage to use someone else's cash I'll do it every time and keep mine.


True. So you put that cash to work for you, make the return on your cash in addition to the tax write off and you still have the advantage of being liquid. Many times on many purchases, real estate, motorhomes, commercial buildings etc. you stay cash neutral if not cash positive and you can liquidate your cash today if you have to. (i.e. I own my MH outright and have to buy a new kidney today. I'll get a loan on my MH...but wait, I don't have a job, I'm sick, I have no way to repay the loan so no one will give me loan. Loans are given based on your ability to repay, now how much equity you have in the collateral. I have to wait for my new kidney until I sell my MH...that's bad)

Paying cash for a MH isn't necessarily bad (however tying up 80K to 200K+ for ten years isn't my cup of tea, that's a lot time to have it working elsewhere and I just can't forecast that far ahead) but paying cash for real estate and other appreciating assets is really short sighted and not to your advantage unless you have the cash flow of Warren or Bill and they still both carry a lot of debt.


Chuck
2002 Winnebago Journey
Cummins ISB 5.9L 300HP

2005 Acura MDX
1997 Jeep Wrangler


AwayWeGo.US

Winter Garden, FL

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Posted: 06/21/08 10:42am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I found this thread to be very interesting. From reading most posts, it appears that most of the comments are from "part-timers" who express RVing as a hobby. In this aspect, then I agree that owning a motorhome is an upside down hobby. (But very enjoyable! )

But from another aspect, I as a full-timer who makes payments, see this as just a living expense. Just the same as a house. Do you REALLY recoup what you've paid over a 30 year mortgage on your home? Perhaps if you were actually living in the home for 30+ years. But those home owners are few and far between. Most generally sell and move between 5 and 10 years in a house. So in reality they are almost in the same situation. Depending on the market (NOT todays market for sure!), yes you MAY be able to sell a house for the same or more than the purchase price. But when you add up the actual payments made you may still be in the negative.

I had purchased a Corvette in Oct 2006 and sold it almost 1 year later. I sold it for HIGHER than the purchase price. But when you figure in the payments, I still lost money. But I DID ENJOY THE YEARS WORTH OF USE! That's how we must also look at our RVs.

Just my $.02.


2005 National RV Seabreeze LX #8360
2002 Jeep Wrangler Sport
More about us, our adventure stories and lots of photos at: AwayWeGo


BigSkyBob

Western Montana

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Posted: 06/21/08 11:17am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sully2 wrote:

Upside down?...Right side up.? I dont care if Im inside out on the loan on my rig. Our plans are to keep it till we die..and after that it dont really matter what its worth.....but as long as I have "investments" who's return is more than enough to make my payments and "up keep"....I could care less what "position" Im in on a loan


Sully has this right, as usual. Why worry about something you have no control over? Just go enjoy the thing you purchased, for the reason you purchased it and don't look back.

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