Sunshine State wrote: Here's some questions I've always had:
What constitutes a "puppy mill"?
A true licensed puppy mill, buys a license and usually is not restricted to how many dogs they can have and they breed dogs for the sole purpose of profit. These dogs in lic. puppy mills are considered livestock and are treated as such. Enforcement of the few laws in place are rarely acted upon, it is considered an agriculture business.
ALL dogs sold from a puppy mill are not spayed or neutered.
What is a back yard breeder?
Any one breeding 2 dogs for the sole purpose of making a profit.
IMHO I think we need to focus on one problem at a time instead of trying to throw one net of laws over each and every problem contributing to overpopulation and expecting that to work.
Each source that adds to the problem needs specific laws drawn up to try and dimenish the problem.
IMHO and the most 'no brainer' is to zone in on the 'Licensed' Puppy Mills. Each state has a record of their names, addresses and phone number for god's sake! You 'know' where each one is.
If they were 'forced' to abide by the laws regarding their license, they would all belly up because they would not be able to make any money if they had to provide adequate housing and appropriate vet care.
Strengthen the laws governing them and spend the money to enforce them. Sadly what the government chose to do was make blanket statements within these bills that directly affected responsible pet owners.
31 ft Four Winds
Chevy Tracker 4x4 Blue Ox We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us.
I will post one time on this thread, then stop reading it. I don't care to argue or engage in name-calling.
Code2High wrote: I'd have to say that education HAS worked.
If it has worked, why do we still have overcrowded shelters?
John Q Public doesn't want to pay for an intact license now, how are you going to change his mind? By enacting a mandatory surgery that costs even more? He won't do the surgery AND he won't license the dog. And to keep from getting caught, the dog will never go to the vet. The fact that this scenario plays out again and again means education has not yet worked.
I'm not saying we shouldn't educate folks on the benefits of spay/neuter. For pet owners, it is the best choice, but they need to be educated on why, and when. (too early can lead to a lot of health problems that the MSN crowd wants to keep hush-hush about)... and too late leads to, well, more puppies.
Quote: Spay and neuter HAS worked.
Again, no. The same folks who didn't pay for a license are not going to obey MSN laws. They stay "underground"
Quote: Creating new laws HAS worked. We need to acknowledge that there has been a big decrease in the number of animals being allowed to breed indiscriminately, and the number of animals being destroyed each year across the country. That is the result of what has been done thus far.
No, creating new laws has not worked. The grand experiment with MSN in Santa Cruz has led to a decrease in shelter intakes, yes. But that decrease was LESS than the decrease state-wide in areas where they (still) respect the property rights of responsible dog owners.
For the record, all of my current animals are spayed/neutered, but it was my choice. My next dog will be a female headed for the breed ring, and I will not spay her.
The place to start is with enforcing existing laws, not passing new ones and then not enforcing those either.
Samantha (the poster)
Tim, spouse and driver of the Corgi-Bus
Beth, Buddy, and Pippin - Pembroke Welsh Corgis
1988 Bounder Ford 460
Education, hmmmm let's see where you can get the best education and information about the puppy you are about to buy and have a mentor to help you understand and practice responsible pet ownership.
And the use of the word 'you' is in reference
to mean a potential 'new pet owner'
Pet Stores?
When you buy from a pet store do they tell you the characteristics of the breed?
Do they ask you how your are going to house, feed and take care of the dog? And help you understand the costs and responsibilites?
Did they assist you on telling you about vaccinations?
Did they tell you what health problems the breed you purchased is known to have?
Can or more importantly will they tell you where the dog is from?
Did they give you one of those wonderful dreamt up numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy that you have a dog with papers?
Do they offer you their phone number to call them anytime you have a question?
Did they promise that at any given time of your dog's life, that if you could not keep it they would gladly take it back?
The person that took your money at the register, how much knowledge do you think 'they' had on how to buy, own and take care of that particular breed you just bought?
From what I've seen it's point, pick up pup, head to register to pay.
Yup, pet stores fueled by puppy mills are the place to buy a pet.
rockhillmanor wrote: Education, hmmmm let's see where you can get the best education and information about the puppy you are about to buy and have a mentor to help you understand and practice responsible pet ownership.
And the use of the word 'you' is in reference
to mean a potential 'new pet owner'
Pet Stores?
When you buy from a pet store do they tell you the characteristics of the breed?
Do they ask you how your are going to house, feed and take care of the dog? And help you understand the costs and responsibilites?
Did they assist you on telling you about vaccinations?
Did they tell you what health problems the breed you purchased is known to have?
Can or more importantly will they tell you where the dog is from?
Did they give you one of those wonderful dreamt up numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy that you have a dog with papers?
Do they offer you their phone number to call them anytime you have a question?
Did they promise that at any given time of your dog's life, that if you could not keep it they would gladly take it back?
The person that took your money at the register, how much knowledge do you think 'they' had on how to buy, own and take care of that particular breed you just bought?
From what I've seen it's point, pick up pup, head to register to pay.
Yup, pet stores fueled by puppy mills are the place to buy a pet.
There are some things the pet store probably didn't do.
They didn't make you feel small and unworthy.
They didn't make you sign a contract that indicates they are co-owners of your pet in perpetuity.
They probably didn't make you fill out an application of ownership that rivals a Top Secret clearance form.
They probably didn't ask for fifteen references from Vets, preachers, the police chief, your financial advisor, and ten people that own a similar breed and have inspected your house and yard to make sure you qualify to be an owner of such a precious product.
They probably didn't run down every other breeder--large and small in a four state area.
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